Looking to the Future: FFXIV v7.x and Beyond

[Maljinwo]

Our characters aren't immortal, we could die to something mundane. While we have the power and skill to take on higher power tier enemies, that doesn't mean a run of the mill villain couldn't keep us on our toes.

The WoL died to the Black Rose in the other timeline.
And they were drugged like any other chump on Heavensward.

The WoL's definetly just a strong person. A terribly strong person sure, but still vulnerable

[A Chozo]

Doubt we'll explore the Void the same way we did with the First because that would be the same type of adventure.

Next big plot will probably be something that we aren't really expecting right now but that we have been hinted at. Not so basic as "oh, we'll explore Meracydia to quell unrest yaaay!" but the quest for a explanation for some phenomena that we have experienced a little but haven't truly deciphered - as in, the following things haven't been explained yet:

-What the hell is the Echo - even the Ancients have and are aware of it but as of now it's just this very convenient gift;
-Why did the song of creation's end manifested as meteors and a sound from within the earth;
-What's the nature of the other shards - time is wonky, some could be ancient, some could be advanced as fuck;
-The first Eras of the Source - some are still very mysterious.

And, the most ominous one - the Golden Dhyata's message:

"The serpent that sleeps in the deep slowly sheds its skin of old.

Eventually, the serpent devours its own tail, and renders new flesh using its own. The pain felt with cause the earth to quake, the mountains to crumble, and the rivers to run dry. Thus, seven wedges must be driven into its back."
a
Trip across the realms to drive seven wedges into the bcak of a apocalyptic monster? I'm in.

[Grinning Serpent]

Ifalna views them as close friends yes but, frankly put, aside from going back to her books studying white magic, kitty doesn't really know what to do with herself until called upon.

Weaker enemies: It's like ordinary street thugs trying to challenge the Batman. They can keep him busy but they are never really any threat. There are still people in need of assistance and problems to be solved all over the world. Not every problem needs to bring our WoL to the limit of his/her abilities in order to be meaningful.

It's more like Goku or Superman or something. A thug with a gun can still kill Batman. Batman is very strong, but he's just a guy. WoL even without Crystal Mommy's blessing is still something otherworldly.

[Aucald]

This^

Our characters aren't immortal, we could die to something mundane. While we have the power and skill to take on higher power tier enemies, that doesn't mean a run of the mill villain couldn't keep us on our toes.

My issue with EW and its denouement wasn't really my character's personal power level, per se; just that the huge and cosmic nature of the conflict with the Endsinger, tracing all the way back to primeval times of the Amaurotines and unsundered Etheirys, seems to dwarf any possible conflict that could occur afterward. After the huge crescendo of all that, anything more terrestrial would feel like it'd have all the power of a series of wet caps going off. I think that feeling will fade with time and distance, though; and by the time the next expansion hits I'll be ready for more action even if it is in a lower register.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Tying the player into the Ascians was good for giving the player a more personal investment in the story, but in the long term it has damaged the FF14 setting. Exploring Amaurot and the Sundering was a mistake. It makes the 7 Eras and calamities feel irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. FF14 has become like WoW where sure, you have 10,000 years of history, but only the War of the Ancients and the present day matters. Everything in between has been relegated to unimportant fluff. GW2 also recently did the same thing with "Mother", where you find out that she was the be-all-end-all and once she is dealt with, you're left realizing there is pretty much nothing left to explore.

Also doesn't help that FF14 needlessly wiped out the rest of the universe. Unless a planet that managed to conceal itself from the Endsinger is retconned in, you won't get to explore any alien worlds. It would have been cool to go visit Omega's people. Sounds like an Ayreon album which would be rad expansion material, but nope they're long dead.

It used to be that FF14's world was wide with possibility, and then after EW it feels like there is very little possibility.

[Katchii]

My issue with EW and its denouement wasn't really my character's personal power level, per se; just that the huge and cosmic nature of the conflict with the Endsinger, tracing all the way back to primeval times of the Amaurotines and unsundered Etheirys, seems to dwarf any possible conflict that could occur afterward. After the huge crescendo of all that, anything more terrestrial would feel like it'd have all the power of a series of wet caps going off. I think that feeling will fade with time and distance, though; and by the time the next expansion hits I'll be ready for more action even if it is in a lower register.

I can understand that, but I think that's a personal perception. I don't have issues with more terrestrial conflicts potentially being dangerous for us specifically because I accept our characters mortality. So long as they make it believable, which up to this point, they have.

[Granyala]

-What the hell is the Echo - even the Ancients have and are aware of it but as of now it's just this very convenient gift;

Wasn't the Echo just a side effect of being a fragmented descendant of Azem?

- - - Updated - - -

It's more like Goku or Superman or something. A thug with a gun can still kill Batman. Batman is very strong, but he's just a guy. WoL even without Crystal Mommy's blessing is still something otherworldly.

WoL died to poison gas in the original timeline.
So yeah: we may have special abilities but in the end of the day, we are still mortal.

[Aucald]

-What the hell is the Echo - even the Ancients have and are aware of it but as of now it's just this very convenient gift;
-Why did the song of creation's end manifested as meteors and a sound from within the earth;
-What's the nature of the other shards - time is wonky, some could be ancient, some could be advanced as fuck;
-The first Eras of the Source - some are still very mysterious.

And, the most ominous one - the Golden Dhyata's message

The Echo is apparently an ability some sundered souls have that gives them an awareness of the totality of their connected souls across the sundered realms, as well as connectivity to the totality of creation as it was prior to being sundered. This apparently bestows psychometric ability, remote viewing, an innate ability to understand all languages, and an assortment of other gifts to an entity that has it. Some of these abilities may well be innate abilities that the ancient Amaurotines possessed.

If you're talking about the cataclysm that overtook Etheirys-that-was, it was due to the Endsinger turning the Amaurotines' ability to literally shape matter and create from seemingly nothing against them by realizing their deepest and worst fears. I suppose many of those fears involved natural disasters that they, even with their considerable abilities, would be unable to defend against - a bombardment from outside forces, their very world dying beneath their feet, abominations being born beyond their control, etc. I always felt the "sound from within the earth" was probably a death knell being emitted from the world itself, resonating with Endsinger's own theme of decay and oblivion, it was just the omen of the world's death.

As for the other shards, who can really say? That's the one thing I'm really looking forward to exploring, and I hope they'll be the themes of future content. Same with the primeval eras of the Source and the Golden Dhyata's ominous message - plot hooks and adventure seeds for future content, hopefully.

[Grinning Serpent]

Wasn't the Echo just a side effect of being a fragmented descendant of Azem?

- - - Updated - - -



WoL died to poison gas in the original timeline.
So yeah: we may have special abilities but in the end of the day, we are still mortal.

That WoL was a lot weaker than the "true" WoL.

[Granyala]

That WoL was a lot weaker than the "true" WoL.

No she wasn't. That's just your headcanon.

[MsSideEye]

My issue with EW and its denouement wasn't really my character's personal power level, per se; just that the huge and cosmic nature of the conflict with the Endsinger, tracing all the way back to primeval times of the Amaurotines and unsundered Etheirys, seems to dwarf any possible conflict that could occur afterward. After the huge crescendo of all that, anything more terrestrial would feel like it'd have all the power of a series of wet caps going off. I think that feeling will fade with time and distance, though; and by the time the next expansion hits I'll be ready for more action even if it is in a lower register.

While I can understand the problem of thinking 'Well, how do you top that' when it comes to Meteion and the story of EW as a whole, I do think them slipping back to tell smaller stories and give us new adventure hooks is a better idea than going 'Ok, so what new big bad evil was going to be the one that was pulling Meteion's strings the entire time!' Add in the fact that we're going and following some of those other plot hooks that have been laid out already (The Bounty, The Void/13th) with the fact that we're not pushing some massive story plot like we had before allows us to go and have smaller experiences, like the new Variant dungeons with Nanamo, and I'm excited for the future.

Sometimes, it's good to have a bit of a break from the world ending threats to deal with something that is a good deal more localized. It's kinda like the Superman problem, where people are like 'Oh no, we can't have a great threat to Superman because he's so super strong' not realizing that the good Superman material isn't about him punching someone out, it's about him trying to rescue someone and stop a threat at the same time as him also holding to his values. That same kind of story could be told with the WoL. Even if they can slay gods and and help save the Universe itself, that doesn't mean they can be everywhere and do everything at one time.

No she wasn't. That's just your headcanon.

You're also talking to the person whose headcanon = undeniable truth to them, soooo...

[eschatological]

I don't understand the story, tbh, but is there a scenario where the story involves re-incorporating the shards back into the First? And maybe even rebuild the lost ones?

Like, Ascians are constantly lamenting the "sundered" nature of the WoL and her compatriots.

This of course, stems from my disdain of the shard storyline in general, cause the inhabitants of Kholusia etc feel like shadow copies of their truer selves, if we work on the idea that those of the First are the "best" of the sundered versions.

[MsSideEye]

I don't understand the story, tbh, but is there a scenario where the story involves re-incorporating the shards back into the First? And maybe even rebuild the lost ones?

I mean, the main story was just that? The Ascians are rejoining the shards back into the Source. That just happens to go involve destroying the lost shards and return their energies over to the Source, which usually results in Calamities on the source. The major reason we're even able to follow the story idea of rebuilding the Void/13, because it wasn't destroyed like the other shards were, but instead just overwhelmed by darkness. Not to say they couldn't find a way to 'rebuild' the destroyed shards, but as far as the story's been explained, those have been reunited with the source.

Like, Ascians are constantly lamenting the "sundered" nature of the WoL and her compatriots.

It's like Emet said in this instance. "As sundered souls, I do not see you as truely alive, and thus I will not be guilty of murder should I kill you."

The whole point of what the Ascians are wanting is to return the world back to the way it was originally, to make whole what was shattered into pieces by Hydalyn/Venat. Like... imagine if your significant other or a family member was broken into 14 different versions of themselves and the only way you've figured out how to make them whole again was by killing each and every other one then SO/FM prime? That's whats going on.

The major reason we're fighting against them from doing just that, though, is because those 14 different versions all have their own wants, dreams, personalities, and existences that are different from what the original had, and they argue that they have just as much right to live, even fractured as they are. Even half a life is still life.

This of course, stems from my disdain of the shard storyline in general, cause the inhabitants of Kholusia etc feel like shadow copies of their truer selves, if we work on the idea that those of the First are the "best" of the sundered versions.

Honestly, how is this any different from any Alternate Universe story we've had before outside of having a greater reason for there to BE an alternate universe to begin with? We have our prime world where we got introduced to all these characters, and then any other alternate universe going to be like looking into a fun house mirror. It's got the idea down, but that's about it.

It's no different from, say, the 2003 Ninja Turtles going back and visiting the 89 Ninja Turtles. Same idea, same characters, but the filter around them is completely different to result in similar, but not exact characters. And, Again, that's kinda the point of 14's story: That a life is a life. Ryne and Gaia of the First are just as important in their living as we are in the Source. It's why we fight, because all life is precious.

[eschatological]

But, I mean, is there a way for us to continue that storyline, without the......yanno, wholesale genocide of the people on the shards.

Like, Ryne and the bunny lady/commander being stuck on this shard as "less than" characters seems like a waste, and I don't know how you incorporate them back into the story without continuing that Ascian storyline in a more WoL-esque way. And I'd l ike to see those characters reincorporated.

[Swnem]

But, I mean, is there a way for us to continue that storyline, without the......yanno, wholesale genocide of the people on the shards.

Like, Ryne and the bunny lady/commander being stuck on this shard as "less than" characters seems like a waste, and I don't know how you incorporate them back into the story without continuing that Ascian storyline in a more WoL-esque way. And I'd l ike to see those characters reincorporated.

I don't understand why you think them lesser characters.

I mean, that is not final though. We may still find a way to safely rejoin the shards, especially if we can find a way to mass transport people to the source, which is something being researched in the current storyline.

I do strongly believe that something along those lines was/is Azem's plan.

[eschatological]

I don't understand why you think them lesser characters.

I mean, that is not final though. We may still find a way to safely rejoin the shards, especially if we can find a way to mass transport people to the source, which is something being researched in the current storyline.

I do strongly believe that that was Azem's plan.

They're less than inasmuch as they're from the shards, and not The Source. Like, Ardbert is supposed to be a reflection of the WoL, and because of the unbalanced natures of the shards is why these reflections fail?

[MsSideEye]

But, I mean, is there a way for us to continue that storyline, without the......yanno, wholesale genocide of the people on the shards.

Like, Ryne and the bunny lady/commander being stuck on this shard as "less than" characters seems like a waste, and I don't know how you incorporate them back into the story without continuing that Ascian storyline in a more WoL-esque way. And I'd l ike to see those characters reincorporated.

We're already are looking into the 13th, which is another shard, Y'shtola's looking into making travel between shards doable by more then just the WoL or Void Portal, and we've got multiple characters who are capable of jumping between realities in both Gaia, Feo Ul, and Gilgamesh. And that's just those things that are directly mentioned in the story itself and that I can think off the top of my head. I could easily see us going back to the First again as more than just a go between of our world and Elpis but the story hasn't required or drawn us in just yet.

Hell, right off the top of my head? I could see a future Variant dungeon being set in the first. I could also see us doing something over there once Y'sh figures out shard travel to get back to her Catman lover. And you know for the fact that Thancred isn't going let Ryne all by her lonesome the moment the First can be accessed again. Just because this hasn't happened yet, doesn't mean it never will.

[Aucald]

They're less than inasmuch as they're from the shards, and not The Source. Like, Ardbert is supposed to be a reflection of the WoL, and because of the unbalanced natures of the shards is why these reflections fail?

The Source isn't really greater than any of the other shards like the First in which you encounter Ardbert - it's more of a first-among-equals type of deal. The Source is the sundered aspect of Etheirys-that-was that kind of stayed more or less "in place," whereas the other shards like the First and Thirteenth were shunted off into parallel dimensions, but all of them are equally real and inhabited by real people. Everyone across the Source and all the way back to the Thirteenth (prior to it being partially collapsed into the Void by the Ascians) are all more or less equal fragments of the original ancients. The Source is unique in that when the Ascians successfully invoke a cataclysm on a given shard, they cause it to collapse back into the Source, making the Source a sort of lynchpin which (the Ascians theorize) will rematerialize as Etheirys once it reabsorbs its sundered aspects. Of course, this process also invokes Umbral and Astral calamities on the Source as well, wrecking it over and over, which is where groups like the Scions come in to try to halt the Ascians because in the attempt to regain what they've lost they're snuffing out entire civilizations and countless lives.

The Unsundered Ascians, being more or less kin to the original ancients, don't see the sundered souls of the inhabitants of any of the shards (including the Source) as real people - they just ghosts to them, errant fragments of what should be. Hythlodaeus, and eventually Emet-Selch, begin to see the WoL and his compatriots as true lifeforms, and that puts the Ascians' continued attempts to wreck the shards to restore what they lost into a pretty bad light. It's also shown via the confrontation with Elidibus that the Ascians have partially forgotten *why* they need to do this, as they've also lost portions of their original souls, so in a strange way, they're acting more out of a deeply-ingrained habit (perhaps even a subconscious compulsion) than with true reasoning. Only Azem and Venat/Hydaelyn seem to truly recall the fullness of what they were, and both of them are committed to allowing their original home to reside only in the past, seeing the sundered shards and their inhabitants as the inheritors of their legacy.

[Grinning Serpent]

No she wasn't. That's just your headcanon.

Yes, they were. We literally endured the whole "light aether overpowering you" thing in Shadowbringers... you know, the very same that killed the WoL in the alternate reality? The WoL of Endwalker is more powerful than the WoL of that other reality by orders of magnitude.

It's literally the fucking Goku thing. We just did our "oh no you can't do that maneuver, it's too much strain on your body!" character arc. We are more powerful than literally any other being in existence owing to the fact that we have an additional piece of ourselves merged back into the whole, which happened when we merged with Ardbert (who was our shard from the First.)

- - - Updated - - -

I don't understand why you think them lesser characters.

I mean, that is not final though. We may still find a way to safely rejoin the shards, especially if we can find a way to mass transport people to the source, which is something being researched in the current storyline.

I do strongly believe that something along those lines was/is Azem's plan.

That's literally impossible, though. Each of those individuals is a piece of another. You cannot merge two separate people into a single whole without effectively killing one or even both of them - maybe you could find some means of synthesizing a new person from a mixture of the previous two, or something. Could make for an interesting angle looking at gender identities, if they had the stones to go that route - after all, who says you would be the same basic person or even the same gender on one shard or another? If you go the "synthesizing the parts into a new whole" route, how do different identities with different genders, orientations, etc meld together?

At most, you would have to determine which personality or identity is "dominant" (presumably the Source shard) and then maybe you get bits and pieces of the merged shards in that person's mind. I don't think the WoL has had an actual discussion with Ardbert since they merged, though. So maybe Ardbert is just gone, existing in nothing more than memories.

[Granyala]

But, I mean, is there a way for us to continue that storyline, without the......yanno, wholesale genocide of the people on the shards.

Not without genocidal events on the source. Every rejoining causes a calamity that takes a lot of lives. We have what... 6 more calamities to go?
Even if the shards could somehow be evacuated it would not really be feasible because the source could not sustain the population of multiple Mirror worlds.
I doubt every one of them is as sparsely populated as the first.

Emet said "some of the shards would surprise you" so I reckon that some of them flourished and might even be more advanced than the source.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, they were. We literally endured the whole "light aether overpowering you" thing in Shadowbringers... you know, the very same that killed the WoL in the alternate reality? The WoL of Endwalker is more powerful than the WoL of that other reality by orders of magnitude.

We have grown since that point, yes but not by orders of magnitudes. Do not forget that the WoL hat a crapton of help along the way right down to Hydaelyn herself and the other Ancients magics.

The WoL in itself really isn't unrealistically strong like Goku or Superman. While we are certainly combat proficient, we have the unique trait of the echo, allowing us to withstand incorrectly summoned primals. That's pretty much our greatest strength in a "individual" sense.
Our other strength is to selflessly help others in need and thus build a massive network of allies and friends. Allies and Friends that ultimately make victory possible.

If you really think about it, our WoL would not have gotten very far all on her own.