I think there are too many talent points

[Dilbon]

That is bullshit, if you had points left that you apparently didn't need you must not know how the game works, to have a build with the same functionality as it is currently in Shadowlands you need all the points.

That kinda proves my point. Replicating a Shadowlands build is a bit cookie cuttery.

[Puupi]

rofl

You think the current 7 point talent "tree" doesn't lead to cookie cutter specs?

With or without plentiful choices, there will always be cookie cutter specs. Blizz knows this, which is why they have default builds. So people who don't want to have choices / play with builds don't have to.

But, for the rest of us, we can once again build our talents how we see fit.

This gives everyone good options. Why is there such complaints about something that does not hurt you? This is like having 10 choices for milk. If you want your 2%, it is right there. Why are you complaining about the fact that other options exist that aren't for you?

You think I was in favor of OP's view?

[Lazerbrain]

more talents not less.

there will always be a best spec for a certain aspect of the game, but not everyone is building to do raids, or for mythic, or pvp, or world pvp, or achievement hunting, some people just wanna build a roleplay spec to play the game as a rpg.

[diller]

That kinda proves my point. Replicating a Shadowlands build is a bit cookie cuttery.

Yeah.... no it doesn't.

[Glazey]

There's always going to be a "cookie cutter", no matter what you do. It doesn't matter what system you coat it in.

It'll be determined what build is best for overall, m+, raid, pvp, and open world and you'll run those builds.

[Blinkheals]

There is cookie cutter if you have 5 points or 100 there will always be this build is better for this or that.

[Neuroticaine]

Shadow priest. Although I admit that after MoP I still don't really know how that class even works.

This is quite telling, because the Shadow tree is in an absolutely terrible state.

[Ilookfly]

You can have talent trees with 10 points or 10000 points. There will always be a best spec. Get over it.

[FelPlague]

Having 30 or 31 points per tree is way too much and leads to cookie cutter specs. And why isn't there a racial talent tree? 61 points split between three trees would work better.

lol what?
How would LESS talents make cookie cutters not a thing?
Also racial talent tree... i mean maybe like a TINY one, that lets you "alter" yourself a bit would be interesting, like literally just "i want to focus more on this racial, more on that one" but that would be extremly cookie cutter.

"you demonolgy warlock? go orc, and choose talents that buff the command racial"

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I played a bit with the talent calculator and I didn't have to make any compromises whatsoever. I could get everything I wanted and have points left over. Not very interesting.

Lol what? show us your talent tree build then mate.

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Talents DO add to your class. BUT the talent tree is replacing the skills you would obtain on leveling as well as the old talent choices.

I know this isn't exact and varies from spec to spec but it works roughly like this:

Nah demonolgy it is nothing like this for example, i get what you are trying to say, but nah it is entirely random where new and old stuff is on the trees.

[fatgunn]

lol what?
How would LESS talents make cookie cutters not a thing?
Also racial talent tree... i mean maybe like a TINY one, that lets you "alter" yourself a bit would be interesting, like literally just "i want to focus more on this racial, more on that one" but that would be extremly cookie cutter.

"you demonolgy warlock? go orc, and choose talents that buff the command racial"

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Lol what? show us your talent tree build then mate.

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Nah demonolgy it is nothing like this for example, i get what you are trying to say, but nah it is entirely random where new and old stuff is on the trees.

I mean I did say it varied spec to spec. I was more going for the gist of 2/3 old to 1/3 new anyway.
Heck the picture I used was dracthyr, everything is new.

[FelPlague]

I mean I did say it varied spec to spec. I was more going for the gist of 2/3 old to 1/3 new anyway.
Heck the picture I used was dracthyr, everything is new.

Not EVERYTHING.
Fun fact their main abiltiy living flame is the same ability the dragon aspects gave us in battle for azeroth in our azerite essences, a cute little callback, that their signature ability is the one the dragons gave us back then, both made from a mix of all the flights powers.

[Celement]

I think no talents and one thousand talents are the same thing to the majority of players...

These trees are not bad but given the community its vestigial.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Bit late for that feedback now, sadly.

I will say though, you might feel differently once things are underway.
One of the best parts of the talents is that BECAUSE there are 60 points to spend, you can spend a handful on things that might not be "optimal" and it will have little repercussion overall.

With so many points its much easier to take a build that features things you love instead of "well I love this, but that other talent is 1 percent better so..."
Now you can take them both. The OP stuff, and the fun stuff.

Provided the talents are even remotely balanced, it makes it much easier to put this cookie cutter stuff to rest all around.

[El Gucaragua]

Having 30 or 31 points per tree is way too much and leads to cookie cutter specs. And why isn't there a racial talent tree? 61 points split between three trees would work better.

Classic talents suck. The past talents were only meta with some variation based on situation. Now we have options with majority of specs.

No. Just no.

[bloodmoth13]

Let's look at the options:

1. The last 4 expansions have had 5-7 talent points to assign, forcing you into cookie cutter specs
2. Dragonflight has 61 talent points to assign, giving you the OPTION of cookie cutter specs.

Therefore if you are concerned about cookie cutter specs, then option 2 (Dragonflight) is BY DEFINITION the better option.

Blizz can give you 1 or 100 choices and there will be cookie cutter specs.number of choices is irrelevant considering the average player will just mimick someone better than him

[PenguinChan]

Unless you push M+ or Mythic raid, you'll most likely have wiggle room outside of mandatory things such as interrupts or anything equivalent. Hell, as the expansion progresses you may start actually dropping some talents in favor of others as you get enough of something. Whether that be armor, health, crit, haste, etc. - you can then dump it into another talent that favors other skills you like, or promotes a newly possible playstyle.

That's the fun thing about varied talent builds is that, ultimately, it's hard to completely predict all styles of use when it comes to these classes and specs. And if Blizzard is smart they may even start adding in capstone talent choices or tier sets that emphasize one of few play-styles already existing in design. Legion had a great system of allowing you to over-level multiple times on your artifact talents, and the choice always was yours. Of course some were harder to find as drops, but still.

Choice is never a bad thing, and promoting that over not is what landed us into BfA / Shadowlands territory. Even the Cataclysm / MoP systems were designed to take away that variety which the team originally wanted, and homogenized a lot of stuff. I'm glad they see that was a mistake (After being stubborn for so long).

[Kithelle]

Having 30 or 31 points per tree is way too much and leads to cookie cutter specs. And why isn't there a racial talent tree? 61 points split between three trees would work better.

6 talent points have cookie cutters
70 talent points have cookie cutters

No matter how many talent points there are people who're going to craft the ideal spec...this isn't 2004

[Dristereau]

I don't love it, I think impactful talents and spec specific ways of things working would be really cool. Essentially similar to the effect Legion artifacts work with AMS working somewhat differently between UH and Frost (Was along the lines of UH was stronger but Frosts removed Magic Effects). I actually really like the current talents, just adding a few new rows (55/60/65/70) with things like Covenant abilities or other cool things. I always expected Covenant abilities to exist going forwards in some way, at least the most popular ones (could not see them getting rid of Abom Limb, Mindgames or Convoke).

I really really dislike interrupts being a talent. In no way does that promote or benefit people, especially in PUG environments. Imagine going into a M+ PUG and finding out you have one interrupt total between all players. Really do not like that approach.

Also I've recently seen something on Twitter about a limit of around 10 loadouts total between all specs. From the POV of someone who PVPs/M+ and Raids I would want multiple options setup (M+ depending on Affixes, Raids on a Boss to Boss variation, PVP depending on opponents, General open world builds). I'm hoping this is massively increased or removed.

[Lordofbelbol]

New talents is not what we wanted, thats for sure.

Now stuff we have had baseline since day 1 of the game. 18 or so years ago, is now removed and given as talents, to promote the illusion of choice. Most of the talents now are mandatory to get the class back to where it was before the patch. Don't like this bs at all. Talents should add to your class, not remove shit

Exactly, i main UH and to get everything i want in my class back i had to spent like 26 points in class tree, where's the choice 5 points xD ?

[Kilpi]

Because it was always a bad idea: just look a priest racials back in the day and how/why they were removed.

Racials, and especially race specific class spells, are great RPG features, but not so great MMO features. And since WoW is a lot less RPG now than 18 years ago, it's understandable they don't exist anymore.