1. #6161
    Almost two years later, I think this insurrection demonstrates how flawed democracy is as a concept. If Trump succeeded and the rioters killed everyone, Trump could have just installed himself as dictator and subverted democracy; there would be no contingency plan. And now, he's able to be re-elected again despite this happening. People with their votes could and very likely will put him back on office despite knowing what he did, and the probability he will enforce where he failed before.

    And across the globe, we see a rise in dictators and authoritarian regimes superseding what were democracies before like with Italy (again).
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  2. #6162
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    Almost two years later, I think this insurrection demonstrates how flawed democracy is as a concept. If Trump succeeded and the rioters killed everyone, Trump could have just installed himself as dictator and subverted democracy; there would be no contingency plan. And now, he's able to be re-elected again despite this happening. People with their votes could and very likely will put him back on office despite knowing what he did, and the probability he will enforce where he failed before.

    And across the globe, we see a rise in dictators and authoritarian regimes superseding what were democracies before like with Italy (again).
    So your argument is that democracy is flawed because an authoritarian could get rid of democracy?

    Do you even think about the words you're writing?

  3. #6163
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    So your argument is that democracy is flawed because an authoritarian could get rid of democracy?
    pretty much yeah. More Americans wanted Trump by vote. And the fact people fear him being back means it's a probability again.

    As for the insurrection thing, I'm still amazed the possibility of him being re-elected means he's suffered no lasting consequences despite how much people talk it up. It just illustrates what power is compared to what's right and wrong.


    Infracted.
    Last edited by Flarelaine; 2022-10-16 at 02:16 PM. Reason: Denying settled facts to bait people
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  4. #6164
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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  5. #6165
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    pretty much yeah. More Americans wanted Trump by vote. And the fact people fear him being back means it's a probability again.

    As for the insurrection thing, I'm still amazed the possibility of him being re-elected means he's suffered no lasting consequences despite how much people talk it up. It just illustrates what power is compared to what's right and wrong.
    I guess you don't understand how fragile a civilized society actually is. A bad actor, such as Trump, DeSantis or any other person with authoritarianism and dictator like tendencies, with enough help, could easily subvert said society. Easy is completely subjective here but the fact remains the only reason why society is the way it is is because people want stability. They want peace. People like Trump only want power and control. And are willing to kill(maybe not themselves kill but get people to do it) for said power and control. Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Kim Jong Un, Mussolini. The list is long and will ever expand. The only thing stopping these people are others that refuse to accept them and will fight back, either through legal channels or, if needed, violence.

    The Constitution is nothing more than a piece of parchment with guidelines on it. Other than people not going against it and actually trying to adhere to it, nothing is stopping anyone from subverting it outright. Same with laws. Laws are only as good as people upholding them and following them. The moment that stops, laws have no meaning.

  6. #6166
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    pretty much yeah. More Americans wanted Trump by vote. And the fact people fear him being back means it's a probability again.
    I don't usually deign to respond to your posts because you usually just sort of talk to yourself in them, but two things:


    1) More Americans did NOT want Trump by vote. Trump never won the popular vote; not the first time and certainly not the second time. I doubt you'll comment on this fact being in direct confrontation to the abject lie you just said, or say some nothingism akin to "but then why did he become president and why did so many people want him to stay president?" which are both nonsequiters, but I know you'll have read it.

    2) Democracy was the only way in which someone like Trump could be removed without a full-blown coup. If Trump were a king, he'd still be king. If Trump were a dictator, he'd still be dictator. Trump wanted to be an authoritarian; democracy said no. And guess what, Trump isn't president anymore. The notion that he might be able to run for president in about two year is not some testament to the power of whatever jack-booted government system you think the world should be run under, before you go idly musing that to no one in particular in a response.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  7. #6167
    Old God Kathranis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    More Americans wanted Trump by vote. And the fact people fear him being back means it's a probability again.
    Trump lost the popular vote both times, he only got elected the first time because of the electoral college. Same with Bush in 2000, Gore won the popular vote but Florida swung to Bush which gave him the win via the electoral college.

    We've had one Republican president win by popular election in the last 30 years, and that was because Bush was riding high on post-9/11 support. His approval tanked almost immediately after he was reelected, between the wars going poorly, Katrina, and the looming financial crisis.

  8. #6168
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    More Americans wanted Trump by vote.
    That's not only 100% wrong, it's 110% stupid. You can easily look this information up and learn that he never won the popular vote, ever.

    Dontrike/Shadow Priest/Black Cell Faction Friend Code - 5172-0967-3866

  9. #6169
    Quote Originally Posted by Dontrike View Post
    That's not only 100% wrong, it's 110% stupid. You can easily look this information up and learn that he never won the popular vote, ever.
    The fact he said that should be a bold face admission of him lying through his teeth and trolling….. but betting nothing with any teeth will be done about it…..

    Trump won the popular vote in much the same way the nation voted my old, fat behind more attractive than Channing Tatum in his prime….
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  10. #6170
    https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/20/sen-...nce-probe.html

    And Graham's desperate, longshot bid to get out of testifying in the GA probe is dead. Republicans most consistent accomplishment nowadays is losing legal battles.

  11. #6171
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    And Graham's desperate, longshot bid to get out of testifying in the GA probe is dead.
    Senator Graham has failed to demonstrate that this approach will violate his rights under the Speech and Debate Clause
    This sounds a lot like "your conspiracy with your lawyer to commit a crime does not count as privilege". Graham was not drafting a new bill when he called Georgia and asked them to rig the election. He was being a traitor.

  12. #6172
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    Almost two years later, I think this insurrection demonstrates how flawed democracy is as a concept. If Trump succeeded and the rioters killed everyone, Trump could have just installed himself as dictator and subverted democracy; there would be no contingency plan. And now, he's able to be re-elected again despite this happening. People with their votes could and very likely will put him back on office despite knowing what he did, and the probability he will enforce where he failed before.

    And across the globe, we see a rise in dictators and authoritarian regimes superseding what were democracies before like with Italy (again).
    There is no perfect method of government. Democracy just tends to be considered the best because the most people get a say in how things are done.

    Authoritarians prosper when people don't care about coming to an agreement, and just want their side to win. That is why Trump and other authoritarians are prospering. They don't respect oposition.

  13. #6173
    https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/21/polit...eal/index.html

    And having lost multiple legal challenges to stop from being deposed in the GA investigation, Lindsey Graham is now crying tot he SCOTUS.

    Who, reasonably, should look at the lower court rulings, have a laugh about how stupid Graham is, and tell him to fuck off.

  14. #6174
    Ok, its official. Ted Cruz was once, in the closet. I wonder if he came out yet.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...72238fc7c9abb0

    Ted Cruz Hid in Supply Closet During Jan. 6, New Book Reveals

    Senator Ted Cruz has revealed he was in a "a supply closet with stacked chairs" during part of the January 6 storming of Congress.

    On that day in 2021 hundreds of Donald Trump supporters broke into the Capitol Building in a bid to stop Joe Biden's victory in the 2020 presidential election from being certified.

    One Trump supporter was shot dead by police and dozens of officers injured in the violence, whilst members of Congress were rushed to an undisclosed secure location on site.

    Cruz, who opposed the certification of election results from Arizona, describes the day's events in his new book Justice Corrupted: How the Left Weaponized Our Legal System.

    He said: "Toward the end of our two-hour session, as Senator James Lankford from Oklahoma was speaking, there was a commotion from outside the [Senate] chamber.

    "Suddenly, Capitol Police officers rushed in and hastily escorted the vice president off the dais. Shortly thereafter, we paused the proceedings. In the fog of the confusion, it was difficult to tell what exactly was happening. We were informed that a riot had broken out and that rioters were attempting to violently breach the Capitol building.

    "At first, Capitol Police instructed us to remain on the Senate floor. And so we did. Then, a few minutes later, they instructed us to evacuate rapidly."

    Cruz said Senators were led to a "secure location" where "tempers were high" with several Senators "blaming us explicitly for the violence that was occurring."

    In his book Cruz continued: "While we waited for the Capitol to be secured, I assembled our coalition in a back room (really, a supply closet with stacked chairs) to discuss what we should do next.

    "Several members of the group argued that in the face of the riot, we should suspend our objections and vote to certify the election. I understood the sentiment. But I vehemently disagreed with it. I urged my colleagues that the course of action we were advocating was the right and principled one."

    After the riot Cruz was one of just six Republican Senators who voted against certifying the presidential election result from Arizona. He also opposed certifying the Pennsylvania result, along with six GOP colleagues.

    Trump is continuing to insist the 2020 presidential election was rigged, despite the claims being repeatedly rejected by courts and independent polling experts.

    More than 850 people have been charged in relation to the January 6 attack on Congress.

    The day's events are being investigated by a House select committee, which on Friday subpoenaed Trump to appear before it.

    A letter from the committee to the former president said: "You were at the center of the first and only effort by any US President to overturn an election. You knew this activity was illegal and unconstitutional."

  15. #6175
    Quote Originally Posted by gondrin View Post
    Ok, its official. Ted Cruz was once, in the closet. I wonder if he came out yet.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...72238fc7c9abb0
    It jives with him fleeing his state during a cold front. And then blaming it on his teenage daughters. While leaving his dog at home for "the help" to take care of.

    - - - Updated - - -

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/24/polit...mas/index.html

    Lindsey Graham is lucky Clarence Thomas is overseeing the GA circuit, because he's giving Graham a temporary reprieve from testifying.

    Justice Clarence Thomas on Monday agreed to temporarily freeze a lower court order requiring the testimony of Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham in front of an Atlanta-area special grand jury that is investigating efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election in the state.

    Thomas acted alone because he has jurisdiction of the lower court that issued the original order.

    Thomas’ move is an administrative stay that was most likely issued Monday to give the Supreme Court justices more time to consider the dispute.

    The court has asked for a response from the Georgia investigators by Thursday.
    Really tired of these legal shenanigans. Really, really, really, really, really tired of them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    In other news - https://apnews.com/article/capitol-s...501787a37bf423

    The trial of a far-right extremist group leader and four associates charged in the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol was delayed on Monday after the Oath Keepers leader tested positive for the coronavirus.

    Jurors were supposed to begin hearing the fourth week of testimony in the case against Stewart Rhodes and four others accused of plotting to stop the transfer of power from Republican Donald Trump to Democrat Joe Biden.

    The judge told lawyers and jurors to return Tuesday morning but it’s unclear when and how they will be able to proceed with the case.
    Steward Rhodes has covid, lol.

  16. #6176
    Thomas would be thinking twice if all those insurrectionists were hitting their courthouse. Hell, I'm surprised they hadn't.

  17. #6177
    The Lightbringer bladeXcrasher's Avatar
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    It's amazing that the guy who is married to a Jan 6th co-conspirator has the ability to block anything related to it.

  18. #6178
    Quote Originally Posted by bladeXcrasher View Post
    It's amazing that the guy who is married to a Jan 6th co-conspirator has the ability to block anything related to it.
    Smells like there might be a direct connection between Graham and the Thomases regarding 1/6.

  19. #6179
    Quote Originally Posted by bladeXcrasher View Post
    It's amazing that the guy who is married to a Jan 6th co-conspirator has the ability to block anything related to it.
    Just saying, but IIRC having a problematic spouse is enough to be denied a security clearance due to the risk the spouse poses.

    That should be enough to remove Thomas given his wifes admitted history with cults and her current behavior, but the Roberts court has no standards, and he will do nothing to enact the same basic ethical baseline principles that exist for the rest of the federal judiciary. They may not have been as necessary in the courts of past, but they're very clearly necessary now.

    Yet he does nothing, all but ensuring that the his legacy as Chief Justice will be that of, "That Chief Justice that presided over oral arguments during which a lawyer took a shit and audibly flushed the toilet."

  20. #6180
    Just eff our democracy. So tired of it.

    Graham who was able to obstruct from testifying on the most flimsy of shit, now has a person who's wife was involved in Jan 6th. Ginni Thomas herself who likely won't see justice.

    Just tired of it.

    So the ruling is based on a clause in the US Constitution. In short:

    The Speech or Debate Clause is a clause in the United States Constitution (Article I, Section 6, Clause 1). The clause states that members of both Houses of Congress "shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony, and Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their attendance at the Session of their Respective Houses, and in going to and from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place."

    The intended purpose is to prevent a U.S. President or other officials of the executive branch from having members arrested on a pretext to prevent them from voting a certain way or otherwise taking actions with which the president might disagree. It also protects members from civil suits related to their official duties.[1]


    It's broad and reach, but hey we know that anytime this would likely lean towards favor of any member of Congress. You see in the first sentence it mentions felony and treason. Those two seem in line with trying to delegitimize a state election.

    Just for analysis, I read that most SCOTUS judges would have likely ruled in favor for Graham, but it looks really bad they let Thomas rule on this. I guess this goes more on Chief Justice Roberts.
    Last edited by Paranoid Android; 2022-10-25 at 02:33 AM.
    Democrats are the best! I will never ever question a Democrat again. I LOVE the Democrats!

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