How strong was the Frozen Throne / WoW Classic Lichking(Arthas)

[SovietBabeyyy]

How strong Arthas the Lichking was supposed to be, before they downgraded him in the WotLK Expansion?

And later retcons .

This is about the original unretconned story.

That’s how Ingame Books in WoW Classic described him.

WoW Classic Ingame Book

The Birth of the Lich King

This time, Kil'jaeden could not afford to fail.

Holding Ner'zhul's spirit helpless in stasis, Kil'jaeden gave him one last chance to serve the Legion or suffer eternal torment. Once again, Ner'zhul recklessly agreed to the demon's pact. Ner'zhul's spirit was placed within a specially crafted block of diamond-hard ice gathered from the far reaches of the Twisting Nether. Encased within the frozen cask, Ner'zhul felt his consciousness expand ten thousand-fold. Warped by the demon's chaotic powers, Ner'zhul became a spectral being of unfathomable power.

The Lich King Triumphant

Even weakened as he was, Arthas ultimately outmaneuvered Illidan and reached the Frozen Throne first. Using his runeblade, Frostmourne, Arthas shattered the Lich King's icy prison and thereby released Ner'zhul's enchanted helm and breastplate.

Arthas placed the unimaginably powerful helm on his head and became the new Lich King. Ner'zhul and Arthas' spirits fused into a single mighty being, just as Ner'zhul had always planned. Illidan and his troops were forced to flee back to Outland in disgrace, while Arthas became one of the most powerful entities the world had ever known.

Currently Arthas, the new and immortal Lich King, resides in Northrend; he is rumored to be rebuilding the citadel of Icecrown.

Rules

1.Only Frozen Throne Ending - wow classic Arthas Lichking

2.Nothing after Classic happened (no expansions)

3. Summarize and imagine or think how and who the Lichking would be as described in the vanilla classic ingame book

4. How Arthas would invade Azeroth? Would he succeed?

5. No Cosmic stuff or jailors

6. Arthas as the Lichking is invading Azeroth after wow vanilla (no expansions happened)

[Aucald]

The Lich King didn't really get downgraded in any real sense by WotLK. In point of fact, both Jaina and Sylvanas reported that his strength had grown immeasurably since their last encounters with him in WC3 and WC3: TFT, so if anything, Lich King Arthas was essentially at the height of his powers when we fought him at the summit of Icecrown. Arthas also has the distinction of being the first of the small stable of bosses who actually beat us in their encounter, successfully killing us and only being finally taken down by a deus ex machina from the Light freeing Tirion and letting him shatter Frostmourne.

[Eazy]

Arthas wasn't weakened during his fight with Illidan in TFT.

In the Wc3:Tft in-game cinematic and in the Rise of the Lich King by Christie Golden, it's said that the Lich King empowered him and restored his powers.

[SovietBabeyyy]

Arthas wasn't weakened during his fight with Illidan in TFT.

In the Wc3:Tft in-game cinematic and in the Rise of the Lich King by Christie Golden, it's said that the Lich King empowered him and restored his powers.

And the original story was he was weakened, it’s in the ingame book in classic also! ! !

Later the Jailor popped out as the mastermind. And other crap you mentioned.

Please keep reffer to the original as stated in my OP

[Myradin]

Pretty much all the LK power descriptions use hyperbole to sound cool and epic. Technically as you're using in-game books, it also falls into the domain of unreliable narrator.

"Unfathomable/unimaginable" is a really vague classification, especially since power levels have generally gone up over wow's timeline.

He's arguably still one of the most powerful beings to ever walk the planet. The dude had literal direct control over an entire continent of undead.

And the original story was he was weakened, it’s in the ingame book in classic also! ! !

Later the Jailor popped out as the mastermind. And other crap you mentioned.

Please keep reffer to the original as stated in my OP

The jailor isn't a downgrade in the LK"s power level. The LK was always a pawn that rebelled, that's still true post-jailor.

The LK was a small fry in the greater scope of the universe. An apocalyptic threat to Azeroth, but thats all. The Jailor operates on a multiversal level.

If anything TFT LK is actually kinda weak considering a gap in his ice cube caused him to lose most of his control.

[SovietBabeyyy]

Pretty much all the LK power descriptions use hyperbole to sound cool and epic. Technically as you're using in-game books, it also falls into the domain of unreliable narrator.

"Unfathomable/unimaginable" is a really vague classification, especially since power levels have generally gone up over wow's timeline.

He's arguably still one of the most powerful beings to ever walk the planet. The dude had literal direct control over an entire continent of undead.



The jailor isn't a downgrade in the LK"s power level. The LK was always a pawn that rebelled, that's still true post-jailor.

The LK was a small fry in the greater scope of the universe. An apocalyptic threat to Azeroth, but thats all. The Jailor operates on a multiversal level.

If anything TFT LK is actually kinda weak considering a gap in his ice cube caused him to lose most of his control.

Dude

1.he increased his power while in the cube.
2. no jailor bullshit allowed (original lichking only as described in classic)

[Myradin]

Dude

1.he increased his power while in the cube.
2. no jailor bullshit allowed (original lichking only as described in classic)

Going to ignore the entire first part of my post then?

[Vasti]

I think that whoever wrote that originally about the Lich King just wanted it to sound cooler.
And while he supposedly had great power, we never see any of that great power in any game.

While I dislike what WotLK did with the story, one aspect I did like was that they made him not out to be the strongest person in a 1v1 combat scenario (although he did best the best us until the Light intervened), but his power was in controlling the scourge. That requires a lot of power and I think that could still make him unfathomably strong, just not strong in a 1v1 combat scenario.

Until Bolvar (whom I liked a lot in WotLK, but less so afterwards) donned the helm and instantly became the new jailor as if almost anyone can do it (Bolvar is great, but not that great)

[SovietBabeyyy]

The Lich King didn't really get downgraded in any real sense by WotLK. In point of fact, both Jaina and Sylvanas reported that his strength had grown immeasurably since their last encounters with him in WC3 and WC3: TFT, so if anything, Lich King Arthas was essentially at the height of his powers when we fought him at the summit of Icecrown. Arthas also has the distinction of being the first of the small stable of bosses who actually beat us in their encounter, successfully killing us and only being finally taken down by a deus ex machina from the Light freeing Tirion and letting him shatter Frostmourne.

„ Arthas became one of the most powerful entities the world had ever known.“

Does this fit the Wotlk Lichking at height at his power?

This wasn’t the Real intended Lichking, ofc wow success forced them to give us content.

So they dumped it, and arthas was heavily downgraded.

No one could invade northrend to be honest with his legions and the army of the dead when we speak honest.

Keep in mind i talk about the Classic-Classic Lichking
(Frozen Throne-Classic before any expansion)

[Eazy]

And the original story was he was weakened, it’s in the ingame book in classic also! ! !

Later the Jailor popped out as the mastermind. And other crap you mentioned.

Please keep reffer to the original as stated in my OP

In the original story... which is Wc3:Tft... his powers were restored.

The thing you mentioned is a ret-con and a "book" from WoW:classic(?) that doesn't even fit any other narrative from any content connected to the Story of the Lich King Arthas(books, games, RPGs). So we should consider that as wrong and non-canon.

[SovietBabeyyy]

In the original story... which is Wc3:Tft... his powers were restored.

The thing you mentioned is a ret-con and a "book" from WoW:classic(?) that doesn't even fit any other narrative from any content connected to the Story of the Lich King Arthas(books, games, RPGs). So we should consider that as wrong and non-canon.

First of all we talk about Vanilla Classic Lichking

TFT-Classic.

There isn’t much content or any book or game .

We have the Classic Ingame Books that described the whole Events and displayed him as it was intended.

It’s cannon.

We only talk about TFT-WoW Classic Timeline without any expansion.

Still the quote stands

„ Arthas became one of the most powerful entities the world had ever known.“

We talk about this potential Lichking before anything after classic came.

- - - Updated - - -

Rules

1.Only Frozen Throne Ending - wow classic Arthas Lichking

2. Nothing after Classic happened (no expansions)

3. Summarize and imagine or think how and who the Lichking would be as described in the vanilla classic ingame book

4. How Arthas would invade Azeroth? Would he succeed?

5. No Cosmic stuff or jailors

[Aucald]

„ Arthas became one of the most powerful entities the world had ever known.“

Does this fit the Wotlk Lichking at height at his power?

This wasn’t the Real intended Lichking, ofc wow success forced them to give us content.

So they dumped it, and arthas was heavily downgraded.

No one could invade northrend to be honest with his legions and the army of the dead when we speak honest.

Keep in mind i talk about the Classic-Classic Lichking
(Frozen Throne-Classic before any expansion)

I'm aware of who you're talking about, but I still think you're mistaken. Arthas as the Lich King in WotLK was at the height of his power, well and beyond his brief appearance in Classic/Vanilla WoW prior to WotLK. Also, we're only able to successfully "invade" Icecrown and Icecrown Citadel because the Lich King wanted us to. His entire plan was to continually oppose and so test those who would eventually confront him at the Frozen Throne atop Icecrown. He wanted to show us that even at our full might we were still dancing to his tune, and then he slaughters the Ashen Verdict forces with a single blow after testing them personally (e.g. the actual Lich King fight in ICC), and starts the process of resurrecting them all as undead, with plans to install them as generals of the Scourge to execute a new war upon Azeroth's living with them at its head. And again, it's only through luck that the Lich King's plans are finally stopped, through a miracle of the Light that frees Tirion and allows him to shatter Frostmourne while the Lich King is channeling his powers to raise the Ashen Verdict into undeath.

TL;DR version: Lich King Arthas in WotLK was exceedingly powerful, we were only able to directly confront him because he allowed it, and he was nearly successful in killing all of us and raising us as members of the Scourge. He lost only because the Light itself acted on our behalf.

[Eazy]

First of all we talk about Vanilla Classic Lichking

TFT-Classic.

There isn’t much content or any book or game .

We have the Classic Ingame Books that described the whole Events and displayed him as it was intended.

It’s cannon.

We only talk about TFT-WoW Classic Timeline without any expansion.

Still the quote stands

„ Arthas became one of the most powerful entities the world had ever known.“

We talk about this potential Lichking before anything after classic came.

- - - Updated - - -

Rules

1.Only Frozen Throne Ending - wow classic Arthas Lichking

2. Nothing after Classic happened (no expansions)

3. Summarize and imagine or think how and who the Lichking would be as described in the vanilla classic ingame book

4. How Arthas would invade Azeroth? Would he succeed?

5. No Cosmic stuff or jailors

No.

It is not canon, just deal with it. That's how things works. If a new, fresh thing explains something better and slightly different - it is canon.

That's the rule and a fact. The latest content is a canon, everything else is mostly considered as "legends" or "wrong".

[SovietBabeyyy]

No.

It is not canon, just deal with it. That's how things works. If a new, fresh thing explains something better and slightly different - it is canon.

That's the rule and a fact. The latest content is a canon, everything else is mostly considered as "legends" or "wrong".

Call it how you want. Alternative Version Of the story that it’s in the timeline before any expansion.

And the ingame books from classic are of course cannon , describing the lichking at it was ment to be.

How would Arthas as The Lichking invade Azeroth?
Could he succeed?
Would he overrun it?

[Arikara]

He wasn't downgraded. WotLK treated him fairly.

It isn't his fault that the villains since havn't been compelling / felt threatening; don't go reaching for excuses to justify such things.

[Eazy]

Call it how you want. Alternative Version Of the story that it’s in the timeline before any expansion.

And the ingame books from classic are of course cannon , describing the lichking at it was ment to be.

How would Arthas as The Lichking invade Azeroth?
Could he succeed?
Would he overrun it?

As I wrote above - they are not canonical if they are not in line with the latest content. You are trying to make assumptions based on the books in the WoW:classic. They're canon, of course. But they're just in-game books, written by the bystanders(not omniscient beings/writers or creators of the game) that have not have absolute certainty, so they are subjective sources. These books record their opinion, not the facts. We cannot base our arguments on something that isn't certain. The things which are certain are the newest canon sources, such as Rise of the Lich King by Christie Golden.

But it doesn't matter. Because LK failed and he would've still failed anyway...

[SovietBabeyyy]

I'm aware of who you're talking about, but I still think you're mistaken. Arthas as the Lich King in WotLK was at the height of his power, well and beyond his brief appearance in Classic/Vanilla WoW prior to WotLK. Also, we're only able to successfully "invade" Icecrown and Icecrown Citadel because the Lich King wanted us to. His entire plan was to continually oppose and so test those who would eventually confront him at the Frozen Throne atop Icecrown. He wanted to show us that even at our full might we were still dancing to his tune, and then he slaughters the Ashen Verdict forces with a single blow after testing them personally (e.g. the actual Lich King fight in ICC), and starts the process of resurrecting them all as undead, with plans to install them as generals of the Scourge to execute a new war upon Azeroth's living with them at its head. And again, it's only through luck that the Lich King's plans are finally stopped, through a miracle of the Light that frees Tirion and allows him to shatter Frostmourne while the Lich King is channeling his powers to raise the Ashen Verdict into undeath.

TL;DR version: Lich King Arthas in WotLK was exceedingly powerful, we were only able to directly confront him because he allowed it, and he was nearly successful in killing all of us and raising us as members of the Scourge. He lost only because the Light itself acted on our behalf.

I understand you. But i want to talk about Lichking without any Expansion.

A Timeline where this Lichking described in the ingame books would Invade Azeroth with the whole army of the dead.

[ONCHEhap]

full power Arthas in TFT was getting dominated by Illidan and only won thanks to a lucky hit, so probably not anywhere as strong as you're thinking

[agentsi]

If he was going to do any of the things you're saying, he already would have by the time we fought him in Wotlk, but he didn't, because he couldn't. And as a few others have stated, he was losing to Illidan while in TFT WC3 story, so unless he got stronger, which Jaina and Sylvannas stated he did, he was as strong as he would ever be in the warcraft story.

What else is there to answer, you're not asking new questions, or things that haven't already been explained numerous times.

[Aucald]

I understand you. But i want to talk about Lichking without any Expansion.

A Timeline where this Lichking described in the ingame books would Invade Azeroth with the whole army of the dead.

A timeline similar to the one you're referring to is actually touched upon in the short story Velen: Prophet's Lesson, where Velen sees a vision of a successor Lich King even worse than either Ner'zhul or Arthas:

In one possible future, he'd seen a successive Lich King rise from the Frozen Throne, even more terrible than Arthas or Ner'zhul, and sweep across the land with thousands of skeletal warriors in his wake. When the Legion returned, it was to a world already dead, and the demons laughed and played with the unnaturally risen draenei—all to spite Velen for the chase he'd led across the universe. (Source)