Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[rhorle]

Don't ask what I think if you're not actually interested in what I think. Simple as that. It's insulting and dishonest.

You know what is insulting a dishonest? Your constant need to insult and troll here. Every time. You'll start off with a civil discussion then get triggered by something where you just start flipping out. It doesn't matter what you think Christopher Tolkien would want because you are not him. It matters what he did and the actions he took. He approved the adaptation to be made. What is the honest thing here? What some random person thinks of someone? Or what that someone did?

You've provided nothing to support your claim other than you said so. I've done provided plenty of different things to indicate that Christopher Tolkien was fine with Amazon and didn't think they were worse than the Jackson films. The estate even has a creative say in the show which is better than what they had with the Jackson films. Some of the parts where the show doesn't follow canon is at the urging of the estate.

So why would he think bad? Because Amazon wants to make money which is somehow different then any of the other adaptations making money? Could he be unhappy with some specific story elements? Sure. Would he think it went against the spirit of Tolkien? Maybe Maybe not. It is clear that you are using more projection of your own views though rather then trying to look at an objective view of what another would think.

[Celement]

Don't ask what I think if you're not actually interested in what I think. Simple as that. It's insulting and dishonest. This is literally shitposting. I'll put this here so everyone can see here you're just trolling.

I'm only even humoring this because you literally asked a question about what I think. Since you don't seem to really care to talk opinions, there's nothing left to discuss here.
.
You be you.

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All things considered, I could see them bring far enough up their asses to consider this first season a success and do more of the same.

Seems to be what's happening with Wheel of Time.

It could be but I doubt it... I also don't think they consider wheel of tine a success.

While Amazon will be fine I don't think their video branch will be. The money has already been spent but I don't think they expected to eat so much loss from either project.

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You know what is insulting a dishonest? Your constant need to insult and troll here. Every time. You'll start off with a civil discussion then get triggered by something where you just start flipping out. It doesn't matter what you think Christopher Tolkien would want because you are not him. It matters what he did and the actions he took. He approved the adaptation to be made. What is the honest thing here? What some random person thinks of someone? Or what that someone did?

You've provided nothing to support your claim other than you said so. I've done provided plenty of different things to indicate that Christopher Tolkien was fine with Amazon and didn't think they were worse than the Jackson films. The estate even has a creative say in the show which is better than what they had with the Jackson films. Some of the parts where the show doesn't follow canon is at the urging of the estate.

So why would he think bad? Because Amazon wants to make money which is somehow different then any of the other adaptations making money? Could he be unhappy with some specific story elements? Sure. Would he think it went against the spirit of Tolkien? Maybe Maybe not. It is clear that you are using more projection of your own views though rather then trying to look at an objective view of what another would think.

What are you going on about?

They attached a wire to Tolkien's grave. Its spun so fast and so hard it solved the world energy crisis.

[rhorle]

They attached a wire to Tolkien's grave. Its spun so fast and so hard it solved the world energy crisis.

Blame the estate. They specifically told Amazon to cut things out of the script leaving them to come up with their own creation of things. They couldn't use the work in the Silmarillion. J.R.R might have disliked it, or he might not have. He wasn't opposed to adaptation outright. Christopher might have have liked Rings of Power or he might not have. He however did however make sure the Tolkien Estate was involved and able to have some creative control. The next best thing outside of the Tolkien Estate producing work themselves.

[Flurryfang]

The story has been more than fine. I've already watched all of the other stuff. When the other stuff as well as this has a new movie, or series, I will watch it as well. I'm a lover of fantasy. Good or bad when compared to the source material means nothing to me. For someone who is not a source nerd, and picking the material apart against the source, the show really isn't half bad. It's not great, but it's not bad. Very enjoyable to watch. I've been watching it on Sunday night around 8:00, right before house of the dragon airs... Well, up until the finale of both. lol

Maybe the story has been more than fine, but then the execution have gone poorly. And that is somewhat beside the point. It matters little what source material it has, it matters little how close it is to the source or the idea of Tolkien, its all about how good the show it as it stand on its own and how good it was supposed to be, when looking at the amount of energy and effort put into the product.

You might like it, thats great, but then question comes to why? I know many who like the show, but when i start asking questions why, its often just because its a high production fantasy show, not that the story or show is that particular good. It might aswell have been a harry potter tv-show for all they care, cause their standard is not that high. Whats important is that it is pretty, that it is something to talk about with their social circle and that it is something new to see.

Now, there is nothing bad in that opinion, but it won't create better TV. It allows the producers of the show to do the most barebone and people will still watch. I say that it is alright to have a high standard, especially when it comes to something made by a company like Amazon, something that might have a lasting impact and pressence than just when it is present.

Its also a question about potential. When there is potential, i think there is some responsibility to also try and reach that potential. Without that, we would never have gotten on some of our most impactful pieces of media and entertainment, and i think the world is poorer if that does not happen.

[Shadowferal]

It could be but I doubt it... I also don't think they consider wheel of tine a success. While Amazon will be fine I don't think their video branch will be. The money has already been spent but I don't think they expected to eat so much loss from either project.

It certainly explains why they really never bothered to make much headway against other streaming svs. They make what they can for half a dozen episodes, then wait a year or so, so everyone either forgets the trash they made, or put out another "season" when nothing else is on to compete.

[CerealLord]

Really liked the show. I am no Lord of the Rings buff by any means. Have only read the main line books and watched the movies. I enjoyed this show a lot. It was an enjoyable experience for pretty much all of the episodes and I look forward to next season.

[Celement]

Blame the estate. They specifically told Amazon to cut things out of the script leaving them to come up with their own creation of things. They couldn't use the work in the Silmarillion. J.R.R might have disliked it, or he might not have. He wasn't opposed to adaptation outright. Christopher might have have liked Rings of Power or he might not have. He however did however make sure the Tolkien Estate was involved and able to have some creative control. The next best thing outside of the Tolkien Estate producing work themselves.

Honestly I think it was a doomed venture to start with. The Silmarillion was always more novelty then story. I'm simply more amused by how bad the tire fire was. I never expected it would go well.

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It certainly explains why they really never bothered to make much headway against other streaming svs. They make what they can for half a dozen episodes, then wait a year or so, so everyone either forgets the trash they made, or put out another "season" when nothing else is on to compete.

I think that is somewhat harsh. They have had successes with the boys and invincible.

I just don't think you can do epic fantasy easily. They need to hammer out a very tight script then accept a project.

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Really liked the show. I am no Lord of the Rings buff by any means. Have only read the main line books and watched the movies. I enjoyed this show a lot. It was an enjoyable experience for pretty much all of the episodes and I look forward to next season.

Different people different tastes. I am kind of curious what you liked about it. I mean it had its moments for me to...

When they stole the south park " de took ur jobs" speech I burst out laughing.

[Raisei]

It certainly explains why they really never bothered to make much headway against other streaming svs. They make what they can for half a dozen episodes, then wait a year or so, so everyone either forgets the trash they made, or put out another "season" when nothing else is on to compete.

It's not like the other streaming services aren't having their DOA things too. The Resident Evil show on Netflix was like barfing on the franchises real-life actor grave that had already been pissed on by the Anderson movies. Disney Plus had the catastrophe that is She-Hulk and other weak Marvel stuff, Amazon was pretty well off before Rings with hits like Boys.
I think the problem is just a lack of care. When I saw the first few episodes of RE I could not believe that someone actually saw this script and gave those hacks money to produce it, but there must have been someone that signed off on it. Probably without so much as an iota of knowledge about the franchise or screenwriting. They just figured that the name Resident Evil would attract enough views and plus some virtue signaling would justify the investment. Beyond that, they could not care less.
With Rings of Power it was the exact same math. "Lord of the Rings" great name, will generate X amount of views, plus the whole "reflecting the world we live in today" stuff to attract the woke people that care about nothing but things they can be outraged about.
I am 98% sure that there is a monetary number attached to both of these things, to make the investment into such a show calculable for the people with money. It might not be exact, but I do not believe that any investor will move a finger without hearing the expected revenue they will get.

There are next to no passion projects anymore, noone is trying new things, because "new" could fail, and that means someone loses money. If this mindset had been around in the 70s and 80s we would not have some of the greatest movies of all time now and if this doesn't stop Hollywood is doomed.

[rhorle]

It certainly explains why they really never bothered to make much headway against other streaming svs. They make what they can for half a dozen episodes, then wait a year or so, so everyone either forgets the trash they made, or put out another "season" when nothing else is on to compete.

Amazon has had many critically acclaimed hits. They were also the first streaming service to win or be nominated for some awards (Transparent in 2015). Also every service likes to put out series when there is little competition. Why would they actively compete when there is no reason to? It has nothing to do with something being trash. Just because you don't like at least two of their shows doesn't mean they are actually doing poorly on the industry or business side.

I didn't check what sources or data they used but a quick search has Prime video at a 20% market share with Netflix dropping to 21%. https://www.protocol.com/newsletters...1#rebelltitem1 and it looks like Canada is similar for Prime Video with 20% share while Netflix has a 25% share as of July 2022.

[Raisei]

Honestly I think it was a doomed venture to start with. The Silmarillion was always more novelty then story. I'm simply more amused by how bad the tire fire was. I never expected it would go well.

Pretty much yes. But I think that is more because they picked some newbie writers instead of someone with experience and proven skill for such a project. This isn't the kind of job you give your apprentice while you sit back and watch, this needed a master class writer and there were several avaiable.

[Shadowferal]

I find ICE rpg interpretation of the less known material far more interesting. And despite the derivations, it seems more in keeping to the spirit of being "Tolkienesque."

[rhorle]

Honestly I think it was a doomed venture to start with. The Silmarillion was always more novelty then story. I'm simply more amused by how bad the tire fire was. I never expected it would go well.

Yeah with any large or popular IP it is an uphill battle. Even George Lucas had to climb a mountain with the prequels and he was the creator of the IP. Hopefully they improve with Season 2. They've already stated they will have a 2 episode long battle. So they at least seem to be putting a little more action into it.

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Pretty much yes. But I think that is more because they picked some newbie writers instead of someone with experience and proven skill for such a project. This isn't the kind of job you give your apprentice while you sit back and watch, this needed a master class writer and there were several avaiable.

The show runners were newbie. They had experienced writers working on the project. Justin Doble, Jason Cahill, Gennifer Hutchison, Nicholas Adams, and Stephany Folsom. Amazon even wanted Peter Jackson to be involved or at least consult but the Tolkien Estate didn't allow that. I wonder if they also had problems with others that would fall under the "master class" label. They seemed to want to avoid a certain style with the limited reports of the Netflix and HBO pitches.

[Raisei]

Yeah with any large or popular IP it is an uphill battle. Even George Lucas had to climb a mountain with the prequels and he was the creator of the IP. Hopefully they improve with Season 2. They've already stated they will have a 2 episode long battle. So they at least seem to be putting a little more action into it.

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The show runners were newbie. They had experienced writers working on the project. Justin Doble, Jason Cahill, Gennifer Hutchison, Nicholas Adams, and Stephany Folsom. Amazon even wanted Peter Jackson to be involved or at least consult but the Tolkien Estate didn't allow that. I wonder if they also had problems with others that would fall under the "master class" label. They seemed to want to avoid a certain style with the limited reports of the Netflix and HBO pitches.

Mhmm, the only two of those actually credited as writers are Adams and Folsom though. Adams has basically no credit on IMDB and Folsoms biggest things was Toystory 4 and Paper Girls. Not exactly the master class I was speaking of. The rest are called producers, but I agree that they have a decent history with Fringe and even some Breaking Bad / Saul.
But I guess if the showrunners want something, the writers have no real power to change it in any case.

[rhorle]

Mhmm, the only two of those actually credited as writers are Adams and Folsom though. Adams has basically no credit on IMDB and Folsoms biggest things was Toystory 4 and Paper Girls. Not exactly the master class I was speaking of. The rest are called producers, but I agree that they have a decent history with Fringe and even some Breaking Bad / Saul. But I guess if the showrunners want something, the writers have no real power to change it in any case.

They all have writing credits as well as producer credits. Gennifer Hutchison wrote 5 episodes of Breaking Bad according to IMDB for example. https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0903747/fullcredits/writer Sure they are by no means master class but they aren't new either. They could have had show runners with a little more work under their hands. I wonder if them being such a tight knit duo hurts the show as well. I can't help but wonder if the show's line about a triumvirate being best might also apply to the show.

Peter Jackson had about 9 films of various quality when he was given Tolkien's work so a little inexperience is never a bad thing but it was still more than these. Sometimes just the luck of the draw and I wonder where Mr. Jackson would be if he made the cut down script before he was given basically free reign to do his full vision. Would we still look fondly on the movies or would it have been more like Rings of Power and just a middle of the road experience. Not bad but not exceptional.

[CerealLord]

Different people different tastes. I am kind of curious what you liked about it. I mean it had its moments for me to...

When they stole the south park " de took ur jobs" speech I burst out laughing.

It wasn't anything specific, other than the show was enjoyable. I didn't mind the most recent Star Wars trilogy because I try to look at them away from the source material. I don't think there was anything the showrunners could have done to appease everyone.

I enjoyed each episode and looked forward to seeing the story they are providing. It was just a good watch that kept me waiting for the next one.

[Triceron]

You know what is insulting a dishonest? Your constant need to insult and troll here.

Don't be an ass, you won't get treated like one. If all you do is interrogate then yeah, fuck off.

You've provided nothing to support your claim other than you said so. I've done provided plenty of different things to indicate that Christopher Tolkien was fine with Amazon and didn't think they were worse than the Jackson films. The estate even has a creative say in the show which is better than what they had with the Jackson films. Some of the parts where the show doesn't follow canon is at the urging of the estate.

Truth and logic are two different things. All you did is provide facts that the deal happened, nothing relevant to the question you asked which is purely speculative.

That you are even trying define this as a factual basis is your own intent to prove anything I say as being wrong because you are employing an intentional bad faith argument - that no one can define what Christopher Tolkien thought even though you were the one asking for someone's opinion on it. You still haven't providrd any opinion of your own on the matter, only outlining that the answer is a bunch of 'maybes'. Well, which maybe do you think he would lean towards then? How about answering that? Nope, because you know yiu can't prove your own claim and would be subject to your own fucking accusations, like a goddamned hypocrite. I know what you're doing.

So again, if you aren't interested in conversation and discussing opinions, feel free to fuck off. You can't prove with your facts that he would be happy with Rings of Power just as much as you are accusing me of not having proof that he would dislike it. You can not prove how Christopher Tolkien would regard Rings of Power, there is no way to regard his 'intent' as being relevant to how he feels about Rings of Power as it exists today.

I don't know what you even want to talk about or why you're arguing with me about it when all you're doing is instigating a conversation and then attacking me for providing an opinion that you literally asked me for. That you're now spinning this to be my fault is fucking delusional lol. This is your idea of a good conversation, feel free to fuck off.

[rhorle]

So again, if you aren't interested in conversation and discussing opinions, feel free to fuck off.

Take your own advice. Stop replying, stop discussing.

[Triceron]

Pretty much yes. But I think that is more because they picked some newbie writers instead of someone with experience and proven skill for such a project. This isn't the kind of job you give your apprentice while you sit back and watch, this needed a master class writer and there were several avaiable.

I've been checking some critics who are writers themselves, and some speculate that it could have been a case of writing deadlines and not having time to go through a careful polish process to really iron things out. Everything in the series was designed for the plot, rather than character-driven. The contrived plot we got was probably the easiest solutions to all the plot conflicts they ended up coming up with for the show. If it was a case of having the script meet a certain deadline, even master class writers might not be able to do much with it.

[Specialka]

It wasn't anything specific, other than the show was enjoyable. I didn't mind the most recent Star Wars trilogy because I try to look at them away from the source material. I don't think there was anything the showrunners could have done to appease everyone.

I enjoyed each episode and looked forward to seeing the story they are providing. It was just a good watch that kept me waiting for the next one.

Ok, because the newest SW trilogy was shit even without taking into account the lore. So I guess we can figure out your tastes and expectations.

[CerealLord]

Ok, because the newest SW trilogy was shit even without taking into account the lore. So I guess we can figure out your tastes and expectations.

To each their own. I'll continue to enjoy them