Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Please. Community at large wont care. It will be mostly "Look! DF looks so good that peeps are coming back!"

True but people should at least not consider Preach's words as worth anything other then moss(I.E. very little to nothing).

He cut ties originally when the lawsuit came to light because of how blizzard was handling it and how he didn’t want to do press for them while treating there employees so poorly. Walk outs are still happening, they are still trying to get the case dismissed, they are still union busting. Blizzard is still doing every thing in its power to avoid accountability and not treat there employees right.

You have to separate the corporate part from the actual employees doing all the hard work, its not a hivemind.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

It's just like with every other streamer that jumped ship to FFXIV. It was never about the quality of the game.

It was always obvious, that Preach cares about WoW. We don't even know what the end product is or what it is about. Could be about the game, could be about the inner workings of Blizzard. How come, people already judge what he is doing?

He cut ties originally when the lawsuit came to light because of how blizzard was handling it and how he didn’t want to do press for them while treating there employees so poorly. Walk outs are still happening, they are still trying to get the case dismissed, they are still union busting. Blizzard is still doing every thing in its power to avoid accountability and not treat there employees right.

But now that there’s a bunch of hype those issues are on the back burner and he’s not only doing press for them again he’s doing it out of pocket to get juicier tid bits.

The reasoning is rather easy to judge.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

Why is it upsetting that a popular streamer is returning to the game or doing what it is in his self interest as a professional?

That seems...weird? Would you pass up a massive raise at your job lol?

[Xilurm]

It doesn't matter, the Nelf community is just tweaking at this point and any development other than an HD world tree this expansion will set them off.

It's pretty stressful being a Night Elf fan tbh.

It does reflect something peculiar about the playerbase that being in the spotlight for five years straight and presumably continuing to be in the spotlight for at least two years afterwards is considered a bad thing for them. All of the downright moronic nonsense in Shadowlands is understandable, because it's beyond idiotic that the Night Elves get to be tortured and eventually condemned to oblivion but Sylvie gets away with it because she was sad, but BfA and Legion have been nothing but parades of characterization for and critical events centered around Night Elves. It's even more odd because nobody else in any medium would accuse the developers of having a bias against them personally because their favorite race has to undergo struggle to be in the spotlight—as far as I can tell, Night Elf fans would prefer to see the Night Elves simultaneously be perpetually the center of attention yet do nothing but curbstomp every other race whilst never losing anything substantial. Unfortunately, that would never come to be because it makes for a terribly boring story.

I would rather get no story than whatever the hell that was at the start of BFA. Losing the capital city? I mean, first it was half of Ashenvale and Auberdine was wiped from the map, ok not much of a problem since the Cataclysm hit every race. But then not only does Darkshore get destroyed a second time, they completely wiped the starting zone and the capital off the map, meanwhile the Forsaken just get to do a little clean up and they get their city back. By the way does anyone remember how they turned one of the ancient Night Elf zones into the horde symbol? I sure do.

Then comes DF with all this Malfurion and Ysera stuff. I mean like, ok, I feel pretty defeated at this point. Then I saw the dialogue that Tyrande has with him where she says she wants to stay in the Shadowlands with him, essentially abandoning her people. Who else is going to lead? Maiev? Shandris? Sure they could, but I don't think either of them want to do that. Shandris leads the sentinels and Maiev the wardens. Anyway, And I'm thinking, this doesn't sound like Tyrande at all. Sure, she feels tired after all this crap but still, this doesn't sound like Tyrande to me.

And then there's the people who hate Tyrande because she wants revenge against a psychopath who burned her home and her people alive... Like, piss off man, do you even understand what the circumstances are of what Sylvanas did or not?

It's so tiring...

[Makorus]

Why is it upsetting that a popular streamer is returning to the game or doing what it is in his self interest as a professional?

That seems...weird? Would you pass up a massive raise at your job lol?

If I quit my shitty job saying "I will never come back here again" and then I crawl back to said job once it looks like things are going up, then yeah, I feel like people would be justified to call out my hypocrisy.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Why is it upsetting that a popular streamer is returning to the game or doing what it is in his self interest as a professional?

That seems...weird? Would you pass up a massive raise at your job lol?

If I quit a job for ethic issues (I did) and those issues were still very much on going I wouldn’t go back even for more money.

It’s understandable that some people don’t care as much about the ethic issues as they do about there own pay day but it would be nice if they atleast didn’t pretend like they do care.

[Le Conceptuel]

It's pretty stressful being a Night Elf fan tbh.

This playerbase really doesn't understand what "stress" means, do they?

[Xilurm]

This playerbase really doesn't understand what "stress" means, do they?

Ok it's a bit exaggerated. It's not like I need my blood pressure checked or anything.

I'm just saying, every time I hear there's new nelf lore I get worried it's gonna be shit.

[Le Conceptuel]

If I quit a job for ethic issues (I did) and those issues were still very much on going I wouldn’t go back even for more money.

It’s understandable that some people don’t care as much about the ethic issues as they do about there own pay day but it would be nice if they atleast didn’t pretend like they do care.

It is a little fishy, I won't lie. I think that if it were just "the game is bad, I quit" followed by "game's looking better, I'll come back", that's 100% fair—quality of a product fluctuates over its lifespan, and if the quality is going back up that's a perfectly fine reason to come back. It seems a little iffy, however, to effectively boycott Blizzard over one major, glaring issue (i.e. treatment of employees) and then come back when a smaller, comparatively entirely irrelevant one (i.e. the quality of the game) is resolved.

On the other hand, I have done something not dissimilar. I will say in Preach's defense that there's a certain degree to which the purchase and whatnot could've been involved, somewhat mitigating the connection between the current establishment and its prior evils. Not to mention that the employees also need paychecks—but I won't lie, with my own connection to the game, I don't really trust my own judgment on this. It's 100% skewed to some degree or another, and I may be huffing copium. Still, either way you'd expect him to at least continue to address the employee mistreatment issue, which seems to have been swept under the rug entirely for some people.

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He cut ties originally when the lawsuit came to light because of how blizzard was handling it and how he didn’t want to do press for them while treating there employees so poorly. Walk outs are still happening, they are still trying to get the case dismissed, they are still union busting. Blizzard is still doing every thing in its power to avoid accountability and not treat there employees right.

But now that there’s a bunch of hype those issues are on the back burner and he’s not only doing press for them again he’s doing it out of pocket to get juicier tid bits.

The reasoning is rather easy to judge.

That's a fair judgment. Preach's decision is kind of iffy, and I think that more could be done by everybody, but especially those with audiences, to put pressure on Blizzard to permit more employee unionization. Won't lie that I can't judge in coming back, though, which I admit I intend to do with Dragonflight.

[Gurahk]

Orcs don't even have any characters left. Thrall is barely an orc aside from appearance (doesn't do much either nowadays), Eitrigg is old and fragile, Gey'arwho was forgotten the expansion she was introduced in and previously established characters like Nazgrel are stuck in Outlands
Feels like none of the current writers can or want to write orcs anymore, a real shame.
Edit: I forgot to mention Nazgrim, he and Thrall was in the same raid that Garrosh was turned to dust in, and yet they had no interactions whatsoever?

[Xilurm]

Orcs don't even have any characters left. Thrall is barely an orc aside from appearance (doesn't do much either nowadays), Eitrigg is old and fragile, Gey'arwho was forgotten the expansion she was introduced in and previously established characters like Nazgrel are stuck in Outlands
Feels like none of the current writers can or want to write orcs anymore, a real shame.

Don't forget the whole "council" part. Cause that's always exciting.

[Le Conceptuel]

Ya but I’d think most YouTubers would avoid drawing ethic lines in the sand and then going “that line never mattered” so blatantly while the issue is still ongoing.

Admittedly, the same goes for much of the playerbase. It did seem like people decided to stop giving that issue press when it really should've continued. Everybody moved on to the new big outrage and didn't seem to have the time to dedicate to the issues which remained.

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Gey'arwho was forgotten the expansion she was introduced in and previously established characters like Nazgrel are stuck in Outlands

That's a bit snappy. She had a few moments over BfA and she obviously had no real opportunities to do anything in Shadowlands. We can't simply assume she'll be phased out of relevance altogether.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

It is a little fishy, I won't lie. I think that if it were just "the game is bad, I quit" followed by "game's looking better, I'll come back", that's 100% fair—quality of a product fluctuates over its lifespan, and if the quality is going back up that's a perfectly fine reason to come back. It seems a little iffy, however, to effectively boycott Blizzard over one major, glaring issue (i.e. treatment of employees) and then come back when a smaller, comparatively entirely irrelevant one (i.e. the quality of the game) is resolved.

if he just said “game bad I’ll come back when it’s good” I don’t think there would be a problem I think he did exactly that some time during Wod and it seems completely fair.

It’s the blatant hypocrisy and using the lawsuit to push views when he Apparently never actually cared about it that rubs the wrong way.

On the other hand, I have done something not dissimilar. I will say in Preach's defense that there's a certain degree to which the purchase and whatnot could've been involved, somewhat mitigating the connection between the current establishment and its prior evils. Not to mention that the employees also need paychecks—but I won't lie, with my own connection to the game, I don't really trust my own judgment on this. It's 100% skewed to some degree or another, and I may be huffing copium. Still, either way you'd expect him to at least continue to address the employee mistreatment issue, which seems to have been swept under the rug entirely for some people.

I don’t really think the purchase by Microsoft can be used as n excuse when we still have stuff like this going on the week of his visit.

Earlier this week, the chief communications officer of Activision Blizzard King used a one way channel in Slack to send a disgusting anti-union message to 18,000 people at the company.

BREAKING: The Communications Workers of America have filed unfair labor practice charges against Activision Blizzard in response to a slack message sent to employees by the company’s communications executive, Lulu Cheng Meservey.
@ABetterABK @WeAreGWA @WeAreGWAAlbany

Activision Blizzard has failed in its attempt to have the gender discrimination lawsuit filed against it dismissed.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ABetterABK/with_replies

[Cheezits]

Orcs don't even have any characters left. Thrall is barely an orc aside from appearance (doesn't do much either nowadays), Eitrigg is old and fragile, Gey'arwho was forgotten the expansion she was introduced in and previously established characters like Nazgrel are stuck in Outlands
Feels like none of the current writers can or want to write orcs anymore, a real shame.
Edit: I forgot to mention Nazgrim, he and Thrall was in the same raid that Garrosh was turned to dust in, and yet they had no interactions whatsoever?

Orcs as a race aren't relevant in SL or DF, none of the races are besides Night Elves and maaaaybe Forsaken in SL. In BFA they were SO Orcy that they got swatted back down. But the only playable races that matter in DF are Nelves and Dracthyr.

We just aren't getting any race content for a while and we likely won't ever until we go back to the OG continents.

[Nymrohd]

I mean if we wanted someone competent to lead the Night Elves (not someone powerful, someone skilled in actual leadership), the very obvious choice by lore is Jarod. He could move on with his life, return Shandris' feelings and we'll have a new couple leading the Night Elves.

[Cheezits]

Reposting a suggestion from the lore forums, but what if "Avaloren" is an ancient name for the top part of the Eastern Kingdoms that feature Tyr's fall, the original light worshippers (heretics) etc?

This could play into the idea of an "EK revamp" expansion if they update that part by itself and call it Avaloren.

The EK starting at Arathi is TECHNICALLY its own continent, just bridged over...

[Le Conceptuel]

if he just said “game bad I’ll come back when it’s good” I don’t think there would be a problem I think he did exactly that some time during Wod and it seems completely fair.

It’s the blatant hypocrisy and using the lawsuit to push views when he Apparently never actually cared about it that rubs the wrong way.

Yeah, that's fair.

I don’t really think the purchase by Microsoft can be used as n excuse when we still have stuff like this going on the week of his visit.

What I was considering is that Microsoft may take efforts to reorganize Blizzard's management or intervene more in their decision-making. Broadly-speaking, the anti-union behavior does seem to remain, and I do wonder if Microsoft will bother to crack down to avoid bad press or not. I actually checked and they seem to kind of be going that way, but it does feel too early to tell how this will turn out in the long-run. However, you are correct that as of now Blizzard continues to be unduly aggressive and generally shady in dealing with unions.

Still, I return to my prior comment that he definitely could've at least tried to use his platform to chat with or continue to support unionized employees and draw some attention to that whole mess.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Yeah, that's fair.



What I was considering is that Microsoft may take efforts to reorganize Blizzard's management or intervene more in their decision-making. Broadly-speaking, the anti-union behavior does seem to remain, and I do wonder if Microsoft will bother to crack down to avoid bad press or not. I actually checked and they seem to kind of be going that way, but it does feel too early to tell how this will turn out in the long-run. However, you are correct that as of now Blizzard continues to be unduly aggressive and generally shady in dealing with unions.

Still, I return to my prior comment that he definitely could've at least tried to use his platform to chat with or continue to support unionized employees and draw some attention to that whole mess.

If after the Microsoft buyout and if they stick to not opposing the union he came back I also think that would be totally legit as well.

But we’ll a return half way through DF will likely get less clicks so doing stuff right before launch and ignoring the going ons is obviously the best bet for his bank account.

[Sondrelk]

Admittedly, the same goes for much of the playerbase. It did seem like people decided to stop giving that issue press when it really should've continued. Everybody moved on to the new big outrage and didn't seem to have the time to dedicate to the issues which remained.

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That's a bit snappy. She had a few moments over BfA and she obviously had no real opportunities to do anything in Shadowlands. We can't simply assume she'll be phased out of relevance altogether.

I imagine she will be, alongside other characters who similarly joined, or was willing to accept Sylvanas' Horde.
Sure Gey'arah and Talanji are decent characters, but with even Sylvanas not being on Sylvanas' side it's hard to have a character who openly accepted her.

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Reposting a suggestion from the lore forums, but what if "Avaloren" is an ancient name for the top part of the Eastern Kingdoms that feature Tyr's fall, the original light worshippers (heretics) etc?

This could play into the idea of an "EK revamp" expansion if they update that part by itself and call it Avaloren.

The EK starting at Arathi is TECHNICALLY its own continent, just bridged over...

Sure why not. Already kinda weird that all the important installations somehow survived the Sundering to begin with.
One would assume that given the massive amount of land that disappeared you would have had several Titan installations being stuck somewhere at the bottom of the ocean by now.

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Actually, in thinking about Avaloren I feel a good choice for location is Gilneas, or somewhere in that general area. Maybe in the large inland sea separating the two halves of EK.
One would have to assume Tyr was going somewhere when escaping Loken.

If Gilneas will be retaken at some point then having a titan installation there could tie it all together nicely.

[Jaggler]

Sure why not. Already kinda weird that all the important installations somehow survived the Sundering to begin with.
One would assume that given the massive amount of land that disappeared you would have had several Titan installations being stuck somewhere at the bottom of the ocean by now.

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Actually, in thinking about Avaloren I feel a good choice for location is Gilneas, or somewhere in that general area. Maybe in the large inland sea separating the two halves of EK.
One would have to assume Tyr was going somewhere when escaping Loken.

If Gilneas will be retaken at some point then having a titan installation there could tie it all together nicely.

Avaloren isn't a titan facility though.