Why do some hate GDKP?

[Kaykay]

because p2w

[garicasha]

Because for some people it's unfair.

If people are progressing, then the one who really needs the item(gets most from it/it's his BIS) should receive it.

I disagree because IMO GDKP sends loot to people that have been attending the most and earning the most gold and are helping the run go faster by bringing geared toons instead of crap alt #6. But I also run in pugs and groups without stable rosters.

In a tight/knit guild with low turnover then people who need it most should get it, that’s more a loot council thing.

And if you ask me, loot councils made more people quit playing WoW than GDKPs ever could.

[Eazy]

I disagree because IMO GDKP sends loot to people that have been attending the most and earning the most gold and are helping the run go faster by bringing geared toons instead of crap alt #6. But I also run in pugs and groups without stable rosters.

In a tight/knit guild with low turnover then people who need it most should get it, that’s more a loot council thing.

And if you ask me, loot councils made more people quit playing WoW than GDKPs ever could.

I mean... what's the point of giving loot to people who are rich iinstead of the ones that are better raiders? None than just making the guild richer.

[Sialina]

I don't think people thought the math through.
Doesn't matter if noone bought gold or everyone bought gold, you will get the average of what is spent either way, meaning if everyone bought gold except you, you will get rich from doing GDKP runs, if noone bought gold, you will still get rich from GDKP runs.

Meaning after a few runs you will have the average of what people are spending, and you will be in a position to buy items yourself even if you didn't farm a single gold coin or you farmed your ass off. Could someone "buy" their way past the "queue"? sure, but the number of whales dropping that much on the game would be fairly low I'd wager.

So why does it feel like everyone except you has so much gold? and everyone buys items all the time? Because the instance just doesn't drop very many items. It's not like retail was an Xpack ago. Old MC dropped 16-17 items per run, for 40 people, and around 5-6 would get wasted, meaning you'll get an item every 4 runs or so on average, and that will be an average item.

I mean... what's the point of giving loot to people who are rich iinstead of the ones that are better raiders? None than just making the guild richer.

GDKP is mainly for pugs

[TEHPALLYTANK]

I don't think people thought the math through.
Doesn't matter if noone bought gold or everyone bought gold, you will get the average of what is spent either way, meaning if everyone bought gold except you, you will get rich from doing GDKP runs, if noone bought gold, you will still get rich from GDKP runs.

Meaning after a few runs you will have the average of what people are spending, and you will be in a position to buy items yourself even if you didn't farm a single gold coin or you farmed your ass off. Could someone "buy" their way past the "queue"? sure, but the number of whales dropping that much on the game would be fairly low I'd wager.

That is literally how I got gear for my druid and hunter in WotLK. I just didn't bid on anything for the first month or so, because competition was driving the prices higher than I was willing to spend. I decided to be a patient and regular participant, and I got my gear for less than half the price that I'd seen it go for in previous weeks. The main reason I joined them was to make gold and have fun raiding on my alts.

[Featuring Dante]

1. I cant be arsed spending my gold on items.
2. Items should be given to people who pull their weight. I pull my weight and i want item im not going in to bidding war with someone who does it for fun to tilt others or because he likes the item.
3. People who run GDKP are absolute scum and it is a thriving ground for noobs with gold im not wrangling anybody even for gold im not a boosting service.

[garicasha]

I mean... what's the point of giving loot to people who are rich iinstead of the ones that are better raiders? None than just making the guild richer.

The idea is that the people that are rich haven't won anything in a while, and that everyone is taking turns being "rich".

I also feel that the skill of a raider is rarely judged accurately and it would really take some in-depth parse analysis, and even a philosophical discussion about what skills should be judged, to truly determine 'skill'.

I pull my weight and I want the item, I'm not going in to a bidding war with someone...

So that I understand as a reason you personally don't like GDKP. I myself don't like Loot Council and a few other systems for different reasons, I see this as a rational point of view.

People who run GDKP are absolute scum

This is the level of hatred I genuinely don't understand at all. Once you accept that other people like things that you don't and that's ok, your life will get a lot easier. And I'm not just talking about Warcraft.

[Chaotic1962]

GKPs are good. I started doing them with no gold, so they're not exclusionary, and they mean that you are guaranteed a reward for your time spent playing the game.

See, i had the opposite experience. The GDKP's wouldn't take me because i didn't have enough spending power.

[Eazy]

The idea is that the people that are rich haven't won anything in a while, and that everyone is taking turns being "rich".

There's a difference between a guild who has a few goblins who are multi-millioners and a guild where everyone have somekind equal amount of gold.

I also feel that the skill of a raider is rarely judged accurately and it would really take some in-depth parse analysis, and even a philosophical discussion about what skills should be judged, to truly determine 'skill'.

It's not that hard. Just check the logs, check their classes/spec -> done.

For me it's highly unfair that someone who literally is a dead weight in the raids wins the item that isn't even that good for him instead of someone who is more poor but could at last get his bis and have >90 logs.

[garicasha]

It's not that hard. Just check the logs, check their classes/spec -> done.

IMO that's not going in to nearly enough detail. Are they a hybrid throwing clutch heals? Are they taking time off the boss to do the mechanics right? Are they anticipating the mechanics instead of reacting to them? There's a lot that doesn't show up numerically.

For me it's highly unfair that someone who literally is a dead weight in the raids wins the item

Well the general consensus on my server is that MS/OS is the way to go...and that doesn't solve that problem at all. At least with GDKP when the troll gets an item everyone else receives a little compensation for it.

[Alvito]

Interesting how people play dumb at not being able to understand why people don't like it.

It's not the intended spirit the game was founded upon.

I say this as a non-poor person too.

Why do you think it goes against the intended play style?

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The concept that everyone is supposed to meet up when they're leveling, run dungeons, get better together, move onto raids, get better together.

Thats the "Spirit of Vanilla" that is long dead.

Nothing about GDKP prohibits that

[Galkura]

The concept that everyone is supposed to meet up when they're leveling, run dungeons, get better together, move onto raids, get better together.

Thats the "Spirit of Vanilla" that is long dead.

This sort of stuff was around in vanilla as well.

This is you projecting how -you- think the game should be and how people should play it.

People should just play how they want, as long as you are not directly trying to ruin another player’s gameplay.

[Xilurm]

I wish they would implement the new loot system and put it in classic. I'm surprised so many people are in awe of it, when it's 10+ years old technology. FFXIV does it just fine. You can only need an item you can use, based on your class and specc. It's perfect. If anyone would be using any other system than the default after that they would do it for scummy reasons.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

What a complete and utter out-of-touch thread from OP.

[Exkrementor]

People dont like GDKPs because they are a scam.

Its not like a boost in retail where you pay gold and get carried through the raid and get every item you can use.

You have to play the game, work with your raid to kill a boss and sometimes you even have to use consumables. And then in the end you have to spend money to get the item you already worked for. The original intention of GDKPs was that instead of rolling you bid on items with gold and the highest bidder gets the item. But nowadays its just about squeezing the most money out of everyone. Starting prices at 3k and you get kicked if you dont bid on every single item even if its just a 2 int upgrade or something.

Its scamming stupid people who are willing to buy naxx items for 8k gold and dont get yourself cought only bidding for show and never buying anything.

But also there are people who dont wanna invest any time but wanna get all the loot. I know people who bought gold and spent it all on a full t6 Rogue in the first few weeks of BT. Cost them like 150k gold which was about 1000-1500€. I guess these are the same kinds of people who "play" Diablo Immortal or something.

[garicasha]

Well that does sound pretty bad, although it seems like the raid lead is greedy AF.

I’ve never been in a run remotely like that, although I’d argue that’s a toxic raid lead more than an inherent problem with the loot system.

Out of curiosity is this the sort of thing that happens on mega servers?

[Jotaux]

Because they are poor.

If you're poor its the best way to get gold.

[anon5123]

GDKPs contribute towards gold buying and overall gold inflation in the game. You can literally buy gold and then use it to buy raid gear. GDKPs make the game pay2win. That's why people hate them.

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This sort of stuff was around in vanilla as well.

GDKPs did not exist in 2005 lmfao

let me guess, you're also one of those people who was against boosting nerfs because "uhh boosting existed in the past".....yeah, it did, but not to the point where you have 30+ mages all spamming up LFG chat with advertisements for boost services 24/7/365

[Private Matters]

On my server one dude advertised he was starting a GDKP and it set off a firestorm in the channel.

Back in the day I liked them:
—Minimal recordkeeping
—Everyone gets something
—Distinguishes between the most-sought after items and like…bracers

I was just surprised to see so much vitriol, I mean if people don’t like how others do loot…don’t do it with them.

Edit: I’ll also add that IMO the loot system has done the most damage and caused the most people to quit is hands down Loot Council.

Like everyone else here I can only speak anecdotally but every GDKP I ever joined it was always 99% carries and usually involved dragging a couple of obvious bots through raids they had no business being in so they can mindlessly bid on gear that they wouldn't even know what do with with their ill-gotten gold so raiders can finance their raid costs, but its essentially feels like 'gold' laundering to me.

[Tojara]

Mixed on it but I do them in WoTLK because we don't want to bother getting 25 people together. Prefer them over SR systems where people can make out like absolute bandits if they just happen to get lucky one night, while you could potentially walk away with nothing.

Most of them are ran/made by 'elite' guilds on servers with half a dozen alts, where they cycle through them all, take 5-10% organization cuts (which I'm fine with) and use it as a means to syphon gold off people looking to pug content. All until they want a particular set of items on an alt, in which they have a massive amount of gold to dump because there's nothing much else to use gold for. There are obviously outliers with extreme amounts of gold from random ass guilds with no active logs, to which one would presume they got some gold from some illegal sources.

They largely went away in Cataclysm because 10/25 man shared the same lockout and most people would rather just make their own 10 man guild at that point and have zero competition. Also the relative difficulty went up a bit, making it a bit more difficult to bring in people purely interested in buying gear.

Buying items for gold has been in the game since half way through Vanilla, all the way back in 2005, at least on my server. Not like it is today, but it wasn't uncommon, especially in MC/BWL when AQ/Naxx was out for bigger guilds to host Molten Cores, etc and there would be prearranged buy outs on some items that would otherwise rot. I certainly remember a time when hearts of hakkar would be sold because they were useless for some classes, while extremely strong on others. Generally the easier the content, or bigger the raid size plays to GDKPs more. Retails gold scene is different than classic simply because people will organize groups where 2-3 are full carries, and the other 17-27 people boost the shit out of them.

If you want them to go away in classic era completely, all you would need to do is either increase the difficulty or lower the amount of players in a raid. If 10 man and 25 man in TBC/WoTLK were balanced similarly to how Cata/MoP were, they probably wouldn't exist, or at least not be nearly as common.