Federalist Admits Fascism; "Stop Calling Us Conservatives"

[Glorious Leader]

The transition from conservatives to Republicans is so subtle you might miss it.

This is just more no true Scotsman bullshit

[tehdang]

This is just more no true Scotsman bullshit

I think people should be a little more wise in how they make weak assertions of hypocrisy. Or do you want to attack progressives for being ideological hypocrites based on everything Democrats have done and will do?

People here recognize coalitions with various parts when they're attacking the two-party system, but play dumb when that perspective becomes inconvenient to their argument. Doubly ironic for you regarding the article being all about an ideological break from conservatism.

[SoulForge]

I think people should be a little more wise in how they make weak assertions of hypocrisy. Or do you want to attack progressives for being ideological hypocrites based on everything Democrats have done and will do?

People here recognize coalitions with various parts when they're attacking the two-party system, but play dumb when that perspective becomes inconvenient to their argument. Doubly ironic for you regarding the article being all about an ideological break from conservatism.

That is the difference between Democrats and Republicans. I have zero issues calling out Democrats for their BS. Look at what happened to Al Franken when that picture came out. Not cool. He didn't last long and ended up resigning. And that was just a picture. Republicans on the other hand will defend their people for so long no matter what BS they get caught doing.

[Edge-]

@tehdang I hope you haven't given up the discussion thread on if Republicans basically want to turn this nation into Iran. I found all kinds of good data we can use to discuss whether your attempt to dismissively compare American conservatives to the ultraconservative theocrats in Iran is as silly as you believe or has a surprisingly amount of unintended validity borne out in both the rhetoric of many Republican politicians and recent political polling!

[tehdang]

That is the difference between Democrats and Republicans. I have zero issues calling out Democrats for their BS. Look at what happened to Al Franken when that picture came out. Not cool. He didn't last long and ended up resigning. And that was just a picture. Republicans on the other hand will defend their people for so long no matter what BS they get caught doing.

Remember this is a thread about a somewhat-prominent conservative website publishing a public break from conservative ideology. Let me bold the important parts in the posts so you know what I mean when I say you're missing the point.

The transition from conservatives to Republicans is so subtle you might miss it.

I think people should be a little more wise in how they make weak assertions of hypocrisy. Or do you want to attack progressives for being ideological hypocrites based on everything Democrats have done and will do?


People here recognize coalitions with various parts when they're attacking the two-party system, but play dumb when that perspective becomes inconvenient to their argument. Doubly ironic for you regarding the article being all about an ideological break from conservatism.

One last attempt to make my point clear. If conservatives are hypocrites for whatever the Republicans do, then the progressives (or Congressional Progressive Caucus or Democratic Socialists of America if you want to go that route) are hypocrites for everything the Democrats do.

[Edge-]

One last attempt to make my point clear. If conservatives are hypocrites for whatever the Republicans do, then the progressives (or Congressional Progressive Caucus or Democratic Socialists of America if you want to go that route) are hypocrites for everything the Democrats do.

Except that progressives don't control the Democratic party. Right wing extremists control the Republican party. They are the Republican party.

Edit: Case in point, here's a former advisor to the former president and still head of the Republican party calling for violence - https://www.newsweek.com/steve-banno...avalry-1755596

"There's nobody coming to save us. You are the cavalry. Think back to the old John Ford westerns. You're the cavalry," he said. "Right now in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania—a call to arms. You've got to get to Frank Ryan. You've got to get into these counties."

He then doubled down on the comments in a Gettr post, and wrote: "No one is coming to save America—you ARE the Cavalry!!!!"

There is no analog you hear from top advisors to the leader of the Democratic party. Or former top advisors to the leader of the Democratic party.

[SoulForge]

Remember this is a thread about a somewhat-prominent conservative website publishing a public break from conservative ideology.

It sure is! Stop bringing up the Democrats/Progressives then and stay on the article topic.

[Cthulhu 2020]

@tehdang

Cosnervatives haven't passed any significant tax cuts for the lower or middle class pretty much ever. They claim to be all about lowering taxes so you keep your money, but then they pass tax cuts for the rich that give the lower/middle class a 0.5% tax break and claim it's a success. Republicans don't care about the little guy. Never have. They court your vote with cheap rhetoric, then give themselves and their corporate masters massive subsidies and tax breaks that often break into double digits of percents, laughing all the way to the bank while you get nothing.

As far as ruling via religion, most of their social related laws are all based in religious dogma. If you don't think a majority of the right wants to rule by religion, uncover your eyes and ears. You've not been paying attention.



One thing I've noticed about you though, you talk about "conservatives" being about small government blah blah blah. What I recognize is that you are projecting your own personal beliefs of what government should be onto the entirety of the GOP. The reality is that the majority of the GOP has shifted away from your own supposed "values" of conservativism. The representatives you vote for don't represent your values, they represent the new, more extreme version of conservativism that veers dangerously close to fascism, and sometimes into it.

That's what you don't understand. Just because you believe Republicans represent the values you hold, doesn't mean they actually do. It's been that way since Trump, and even before Trump. Trump just let them go mask-off with the fascism, but even before Trump, Republicans continuously expanded the powers of the government, drove spending to the fucking moon, and were trying to crack down and reduce personal freedoms, not expand them. The only thing conservatives have been consistent on between messaging and actual legislation is tax cuts. But never for the average American. Only the wealthy and the corporations that break record profits every year. Trickle down is their philosophy. That they don't need to give the average person tax cuts because the tax cuts they give to companies will go back to the worker. Which predictably they NEVER do.

[Endus]

One thing I've noticed about you though, you talk about "conservatives" being about small government blah blah blah.

I've said this before, but the "small government" mantra is a fundamentally dishonest one. Everyone, of every political stripe, agrees that government should be as efficient and "small" as possible while still achieving the goals it seeks to attain. Where we differ is on the goals. What conservatives mean when they say "small government" isn't actually reduced spending; it's a dogwhistle about changing spending priorities to eliminate social support networks and push back towards empowering the wealthy through tax cuts and reduced regulation and boosting military spending to engage in foreign exertions of power.

Which is why no Republican government in a half-century has actually been fiscally conservative. Any claims of such are just lies.

[Cthulhu 2020]

I've said this before, but the "small government" mantra is a fundamentally dishonest one. Everyone, of every political stripe, agrees that government should be as efficient and "small" as possible while still achieving the goals it seeks to attain. Where we differ is on the goals. What conservatives mean when they say "small government" isn't actually reduced spending; it's a dogwhistle about changing spending priorities to eliminate social support networks and push back towards empowering the wealthy through tax cuts and reduced regulation and boosting military spending to engage in foreign exertions of power.

Which is why no Republican government in a half-century has actually been fiscally conservative. Any claims of such are just lies.

"I'm fiscally conservative and socially liberal" is probably one of the most told lies of the last 50 years. Up there with "I have read and agree to the terms of service".

[Glorious Leader]

Remember this is a thread about a somewhat-prominent conservative website publishing a public break from conservatism

Fascism is the logical end of conservatism. It isn't breaking with conservatism because theirs very little daylight between them.

[Dontrike]

The transition from conservatives to Republicans is so subtle you might miss it.

And I'm sure you can explain it easily. Go on, if people get it so wrong and you believe yourself to have the best wisdom on this subject then you would have no problem describing the differences between them, though based on the fact you haven't shows you can't, won't, and this is just another T-ing attempt by you.

- - - Updated - - -

People here recognize coalitions with various parts when they're attacking the two-party system, but play dumb when that perspective becomes inconvenient to their argument. Doubly ironic for you regarding the article being all about an ideological break from conservatism.

See, this doesn't work when Trump had a near constant 90% popularity with the entire right, and if you're going to tell me that there are these easily identifiable groups between the right that believe different shit then you'll have to explain how all of them seemed to enjoy the racism, terrorism, homophobia, transphobia, and more that Trump and the current GQP. You know, the group and man you worship.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Fascism is the logical end of conservatism. It isn't breaking with conservatism because theirs very little daylight between them.

It's more like, fascism is the heavy-handed big-government version of right wing politics, where libertarianism is the smaller government version of right wing politics. So many right wing posters on this board vote for Republican candidates because they want (or think they want) that "small government" freedom loving side of right wing politics that are marketed to them.

What all of them have failed to realize (or realize, and just don't care), is the Republican party (the reps) and most of its members are far more on the big government fascist side of right wing politics. Meanwhile the voter base is being sold this lie of "small government, freedom, low budget" etc

[SoulForge]

Meanwhile the voter base is being sold this lie of "small government, freedom, low budget" etc

If you were to break it down for them it wouldn't matter.

Most would view it was "Small government for me, big government for thee. Big freedoms for me, Less freedoms for thee." And would still 100% agree on it. Just look at current social issues. LGBT laws being passed in Red states. Near zero affect on the Republican supporter. Only affects the LGBT community. They cheer it on.

[Glorious Leader]

It's more like, fascism is the heavy-handed big-government version of right wing politics, where libertarianism is the smaller government version of right wing politics.

The people who call themselves libertarians are just a different strain of fascist pig.

[Paranoid Android]

Shocker that both political parties are shifting further to extremism.

Stay woke with that bothsidesism.

One party has not tried to overthrow our democracy. One party didn't have its party leader at the time promote false election claims, which led to an insurrection. One party is not using a religious fundamentalism as their political doctrine. One party is not trying to identify itself by one group, say white or white, Christian. One party is not running in multiple states on not recognizing an election. One party doesn't have people in media who have major influence on their party platform. One party is not calling for a civil war. Not one party is calling for a totalitarian leader and one party rule.

Keep woke about it.

[tehdang]

Fascism is the logical end of conservatism. It isn't breaking with conservatism because theirs very little daylight between them.

The people who call themselves libertarians are just a different strain of fascist pig.

Yikes. Well, have fun with your revolution and war on the fascist pigs. I see this sort of dualistic thinking as only a help in persuading voters that the other side is too extreme and out of touch. It'll be positively retro if American political rhetoric descends into cries of "Commies" and "Fascist Pigs." (So there is no mistake here, I think the committed ideologues obsessed with nascent fascism are only a few lost elections away from putting the mask back on their hatred and extremism, and portraying themselves as sane people wanting better social spending in a pluralistic society of tolerance).

[Dontrike]

Yikes. Well, have fun with your revolution and war on the fascist pigs. I see this sort of dualistic thinking as only a help in persuading voters that the other side is too extreme and out of touch. It'll be positively retro if American political rhetoric descends into cries of "Commies" and "Fascist Pigs." (So there is no mistake here, I think the committed ideologues obsessed with nascent fascism are only a few lost elections away from putting the mask back on their hatred and extremism, and portraying themselves as sane people wanting better social spending in a pluralistic society of tolerance).

You used a whole bunch of smart sounding words that culminated in you saying "herp derp both sides." It's hilarious that not one viewpoint of yours is defending the GQP. The same woman that said she hated bias only has bias for the pedophiles and racists of Republicans.

[Endus]

Yikes. Well, have fun with your revolution and war on the fascist pigs. I see this sort of dualistic thinking as only a help in persuading voters that the other side is too extreme and out of touch. It'll be positively retro if American political rhetoric descends into cries of "Commies" and "Fascist Pigs." (So there is no mistake here, I think the committed ideologues obsessed with nascent fascism are only a few lost elections away from putting the mask back on their hatred and extremism, and portraying themselves as sane people wanting better social spending in a pluralistic society of tolerance).

And that's why no one can take you seriously; you say absolutely insane things like this. There is no possible argument that progressives in general are demonstrating any kind of characteristics of fascist thinking. There is no "hatred", and the only "extremism" in play on their end is, apparently, a basic and deep respect for individual freedoms and rights and a desire for an equitable society. Apparently that's "extreme" nowadays. You have to stick to vague accusations rather than getting into specifics because you know, at some level, you would utterly fail to make the case for your position if you tried.

This isn't a case where Republicans have always been fascist. Go back to George W. Bush's Presidency, Republicans were mostly fine. It was only with the emergence of the Tea Party as an electoral force that the party really started to shift, and not just with newly elected officials, with long-term representatives clearly shifting their own rhetoric and positions fairly rapidly in response to a changing base. We're not being unreasonable in pointing out the explosion of fascist sentiments among Republicans, and pretending that it's the same kind of fact-averse name calling you insist on is just lying.

[Glorious Leader]

And that's why no one can take you seriously; you say absolutely insane things like this. There is no possible argument that progressives in general are demonstrating any kind of characteristics of fascist thinking. There is no "hatred", and the only "extremism" in play on their end is, apparently, a basic and deep respect for individual freedoms and rights and a desire for an equitable society. Apparently that's "extreme" nowadays. You have to stick to vague accusations rather than getting into specifics because you know, at some level, you would utterly fail to make the case for your position if you tried.

This isn't a case where Republicans have always been fascist. Go back to George W. Bush's Presidency, Republicans were mostly fine. It was only with the emergence of the Tea Party as an electoral force that the party really started to shift, and not just with newly elected officials, with long-term representatives clearly shifting their own rhetoric and positions fairly rapidly in response to a changing base. We're not being unreasonable in pointing out the explosion of fascist sentiments among Republicans, and pretending that it's the same kind of fact-averse name calling you insist on is just lying.

Thats giving them too much credit. Since at least the inception of the so-called southern strategy you can say they are entirely fascists. Probably even earlier than that to be honest.It lies in the roots of conservatism.