"new talents" are just conduits and former baseline abilities.

[PixelFox]

Well, I kinda felt this way on druid and initially the talent trees were annoying and I felt like I was being forced to take stuff I didn't want and it wasn't anything new.

But the last few days I have been leveling a Sub Rogue (Murder Cow for the win) and OMFG it is the most OP, most fun thing ever, and filling out the talent trees one point per level has been really really fun and I now think it's 100x better than the old way. It probably helps that I haven't played Rogue/Sub in a long time so when it's giving me 9.x.x baseline stuff, I'm not really aware of it.

Maybe there's some fun and quality issues between classes / specs too.

I will say that in case you're bored for the next 2.5 weeks there has IMHO never ever been a more fun time to level a new character. It goes SO fast even if all you do is questing in the 4-5 zones of your choice. It's also a great way to discover the talent trees.

[Jaggler]

How is it better that we have lost a LOT of baseline abilities and now have to use talents for otherwise base abilities?

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I agree! I liked the idea of conduits and even Azertite traits, but i am NOT a fan of losing baseline abilities at all.

The stuff we consider "baseline" now, were in talent trees before. For mages stuff like Water Elemental, Pyroblast, Arcane Power, Hot Streak, Presence of Mind, etc.absolute staples of your gameplay. You can't have big talent trees and an extensive arsenal of baseline abilities. You have to chooseone or the other.

[Jastall]

As a Warrior I'm pretty happy. I can get mire utility/mobility than I ever had, some cool stuff returns like Odyn's Fury, and there's a couple new additions like Annihilator for Fury which is decent in M+ or Storm of Swords for Arms. Is it perfect, no, the class trees especially feel like they either have too much mandatory throughput talents or not enough points to quite get what you'd want but overall it's a good first draft, and if it means they expand upon the trees rather than come up with a new pile of replaceable systems every expansion then so much the better.

[Kithelle]

I do find it funny people seem to forget how tbc/wotlk/cata talent trees worked, and hell even into the "new" talent trees.
They would try tier sets, and if they were welll liked, they became part of the base class, either baseline, or a talent.
This is always how it has worked, like people are crying that we arnt geting the same class we had a week ago WITH 50 new talent points to put in.
That would be fucking insane, they are going back to how it used to be, barebone class with a talent tree you can use to make your own class. ASNd that is a good thing, and with that of course a lot of these abilities will be old and returning.

The Legion through SL talents were simple...all they did was cut out the middle man, but I guess the game isn't compelling to some people if you don't get to press a button every level

This is the exact same thing that happened with classic, moment it hit (and before) people wanted changes. People get what they ask for then they realized they didn't want that then they say Blizz sucks and doesn't listen to the players at all

[Lordofbelbol]

Most people wouldn't have realised something that is objectively incorrect - so you may indeed the first to have that mistaken view.

My arcane mage can now do the followed (that couldn't happen before):
1. Cast THREE different invisibility spells (not shared cooldown)
2. Mass polymorph
3. Can use Alter time and displacement
4. Self healing from several sources
5. Mass slow
6. Brand new DPS spell Arcane Surge
7. Night fae abilities which weren't available to my Kyrian mage.
8. Ability to take the frost defensives as an arcane mage.

In addition to countless other combinations that were previously unavailable as they were on the same talent row or different covenants.

all that and you will do 5k dps when in raid xD

[schwarzkopf]

all that and you will do 5k dps when in raid xD

I don't have the opportunity to raid - so that is irrelevant.

However - for those that do raid, they get AT LEAST what they used to get.

[Palapop]

Okay so I cannot be the first to realize this right?
there is absolutely nothing new about these talents, theyre all just conduits or abilities that use to be baseline that require talent points now.

Well, guess what, most of these "conduits" (but also artifact powers, soulbinds, azerite traits, "legendary" items (legion, but also Shitlands) ) were also our class talents, spell ranks, glyphs...

So, they just reverted WORST DECISION EVER (borrowed powers). So I'm happy with it. It's a good start, at least. Some specs do feel nice tbh (sp, fdk, ele sham (LB spec)... etc, etc...)

[Teekey]

Okay so I cannot be the first to realize this right?
there is absolutely nothing new about these talents, theyre all just conduits or abilities that use to be baseline that require talent points now.

I mean, that was kind of the point to an extent. To get rid of borrowed power and just make it baked in.

A lot of classes got some powerful legendaries, which make their trees pretty interesting.

[bloodmoth13]

How is it better that we have lost a LOT of baseline abilities and now have to use talents for otherwise base abilities?

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I agree! I liked the idea of conduits and even Azertite traits, but i am NOT a fan of losing baseline abilities at all.

Are you actually losing anything?

I mean you wont have them at level1 but you arent supposed to, you are meant to pick them up as your character grows.

At max level you will have them all again anyway if those are parts you actually liked.

The thing is you cant just keep adding to specs, they become bloated and with too many abilities the game begins to feel awful. Some parts of the kit you might love and other parts you dont like, things you might like being added i might hate, so having a system where players can pick what they want or dont want is a good system.

I dont think its quite there yet but the bones of this system are very good, they could fairly easily add in popular iterations of specs if they choose.

I dont mind 'losing' some options if they are options, a big one for me is shadow priests where they brought back mind spike, i HATE that ability and i wont play with it, if it was forced into the base spec id be annoyed. Which i am because it kind of is forced but being able to not pick it and get compensation is nice.

[FelPlague]

all that and you will do 5k dps when in raid xD

5k when in raid? lol what?
will do FAR more then that.

[FlubberPuddy]

Are you actually losing anything?

I mean you wont have them at level1 but you arent supposed to, you are meant to pick them up as your character grows.

At max level you will have them all again anyway if those are parts you actually liked.

The thing is you cant just keep adding to specs, they become bloated and with too many abilities the game begins to feel awful. Some parts of the kit you might love and other parts you dont like, things you might like being added i might hate, so having a system where players can pick what they want or dont want is a good system.

I dont think its quite there yet but the bones of this system are very good, they could fairly easily add in popular iterations of specs if they choose.

I dont mind 'losing' some options if they are options, a big one for me is shadow priests where they brought back mind spike, i HATE that ability and i wont play with it, if it was forced into the base spec id be annoyed. Which i am because it kind of is forced but being able to not pick it and get compensation is nice.

The system has a good foundation but it will be really annoying if when it comes time for the next expansion then they end up switching/removing/adding talents (especially the removing) as it'll just basically be like a tree that doesn't grow. Hopefully it just grows and you get more neat things added and not just to the tree but baseline as well (classes in the past would get baseline abilities added as well as active/passive talents added).

[bloodmoth13]

The system has a good foundation but it will be really annoying if when it comes time for the next expansion then they end up switching/removing/adding talents (especially the removing) as it'll just basically be like a tree that doesn't grow. Hopefully it just grows and you get more neat things added and not just to the tree but baseline as well (classes in the past would get baseline abilities added as well as active/passive talents added).

You cant just keep adding more, its not sustainable, there is a reason things get removed and changed. Some for good some for bad. I think they can keep the more interesting changes with this system but i wouldnt mind losing the boring % increase nodes, they suck.

For instance they cant just keep adding new abilities forever, or more abilities to the point you can never use your filler spells because you are GCD locked.

When they keep adding more it can really mess with the flow of a spec, i think current shadow priest really suffers from this problem as a few core abilities dont feel like they are worth binding and what we have is a really messy spec.

More definitely isnt better, what matters is how the skills flow together.

[klaps_05]

I guess you are playing mage? The general consensus for mage is just reroll Evoker for this expansion and wait for actual talents rebuild next expansion. For some reason the Mage dev thinks Shadowlands mage was the absolute peak design for mage and essentially has 0 changes.

[loras]

My sockets are tingling.

on topic: We can finally have them all in one place, with them expanding the tree down the line to add different playstyles.

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[Mardux]

I guess you are playing mage? The general consensus for mage is just reroll Evoker for this expansion and wait for actual talents rebuild next expansion. For some reason the Mage dev thinks Shadowlands mage was the absolute peak design for mage and essentially has 0 changes.

At least mage (like warlock, warrior, and dk) continues to be spoonfed top tier dps tuning while other specs or even classes are supposed to be happy with being in the bottom half where they always stay.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Okay so I cannot be the first to realize this right?
there is absolutely nothing new about these talents, theyre all just conduits or abilities that use to be baseline that require talent points now.

They are new because they return in the new talent format. What's the problem? Are you just nettled by Blizzard's choice of vocabulary?

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are you defending them doing 0 work and yet still somehow releasing super buggy patches?
Perhaps im late to the party, but how can people look at that and go "good job blizzard this is great!"
Shammys lost cloudburst totem, well spring, and wont have their extra riptide.
Priests have to talent for leap of faith...

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I expected them to do some work.. not just destory classes in the name of a new talent system.

You're not even whining about the same issue you made in your OP... but it's clear that doesn't matter to you, since you are just whining about anything.


Honestly, your complaints sound like somebody who it just only aware of what is in front of them and somebody who hasn't consistently played WoW over the course of like 3-4 expansions. Nothing wrong with that, however. But using phrases like "destroy classes in the name of new talent system" just screams of somebody who is so far behind, they think they are actually leading.

[Imnotadentist]

Resto shammies lost Earth elemental, cloudburst totem, and wellspring.
That is a LOT of hps down the drain AND their usefulness in M+ will go down considerably

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They are new because they return in the new talent format. What's the problem? Are you just nettled by Blizzard's choice of vocabulary?

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You're not even whining about the same issue you made in your OP... but it's clear that doesn't matter to you, since you are just whining about anything.


Honestly, your complaints sound like somebody who it just only aware of what is in front of them and somebody who hasn't consistently played WoW over the course of like 3-4 expansions. Nothing wrong with that, however. But using phrases like "destroy classes in the name of new talent system" just screams of somebody who is so far behind, they think they are actually leading.

Well i am complaining about how little work is going into the game hence the comment about how the new talents are just old content that is now requiring more from players to use.
And yeah they really did break a lot of classes in the name of a "new" talent system.
But hey if youre okay with it, thats fine by me!
Keep on chugging the copium.

[FlubberPuddy]

You cant just keep adding more, its not sustainable, there is a reason things get removed and changed. Some for good some for bad. I think they can keep the more interesting changes with this system but i wouldnt mind losing the boring % increase nodes, they suck.

For instance they cant just keep adding new abilities forever, or more abilities to the point you can never use your filler spells because you are GCD locked.

When they keep adding more it can really mess with the flow of a spec, i think current shadow priest really suffers from this problem as a few core abilities dont feel like they are worth binding and what we have is a really messy spec.

More definitely isnt better, what matters is how the skills flow together.

I suppose you're right. More interesting interactions would be neater, but at the same time it gets really incredibly stale when some classes haven't essentially changed from how they have been playing for 2-3 expansions. Sometimes, in moments like that, a new ability of sorts is needed.

Not talking about adding 3 new abilities per expansion or anything, but what I meant to say was like between vanilla, tbc, and wrath they really changed how the classes played - it felt new each time.

I think the feeling of newness is my hope for the trees going forward as right now some don't give a feeling of newness it's just the past 3 expansions outlaid into talents. Which is fine as I said it's a good foundation, just hope classes don't feel stale again going forward.

If there are players who enjoy the current playstyles then it's on Blizzard to ensure they maintain that while adding new playstyle options to those who want something new from their spec/class.

[Gimlix]

Okay so I cannot be the first to realize this right?
there is absolutely nothing new about these talents, theyre all just conduits or abilities that use to be baseline that require talent points now.

What is the difference with this talent tree and the 2004 talent tree? Or basically any talent tree in any game. I tell you that, it's nothing. They are all the same.

[Foolicious]

Resto shammies lost Earth elemental, cloudburst totem, and wellspring.
That is a LOT of hps down the drain AND their usefulness in M+ will go down considerably

Not really. Cloudburst and wellspring are talents just like in shadowlands. Earth elemental is a talent now but it doesn't require any prior points so its very easy and cheap to take.
Shamans will be fine for any content.