Is the sub-based monthly model outdated?

[MoanaLisa]

Game companies can't be trusted with the F2P model. It always ends up being more expensive than a B2P or Sub based model.

That's why it exists. It's not a matter of trust. There are multiple revenue models. Some work for some games; some work for others. Some don't work well. And there's a ton that we really don't know because the developers don't give out their game revenue. JFC people. Game companies are not here to save you money!! Stop talking about trust. They exist to get you to buy something. That's what they do.

As for outdated: I said it earlier and some have echoed it. Subscriptions work for WoW. So no, it's not outdated as long as it works. Subscriptions seem to be the revenue model being adopted across all kinds of online things. Streaming, office software, Substack newsletters, you want to play D&D? Go subscribe to D&D Beyond. The revenue model itself is anything but outdated.

[Lolites]

The sub is pricy

pricy? PRICY?!

hell spend more money than month worth of sub when i go to movies... so 2-3h of fun versus however much you play during the month, if you play 5h A MONTH or more its actualy cheap as hell... pricy my ass...

[Zoneseek]

Totally anecdotal but in my case the wow sub has been extremely poor value compared to other subs so we personally won’t be playing again until it’s wrapped into game pass (which I do sub too, much better value for me these days) or the sub is dropped. I pop into guild wars 2 for a few months every few years, ESO and now new world. I would do the same with wow but not if I have to get the wallet out first.

I think what has changed is I have a lot of subscription services now and they are all less $ than wow and way more value for me, so I look at wow and think why in gods name would I spend that much just to play one game from time to time? Very poor value

If they keep chasing the types of players who really only play one thing at a time they will likely have no problem paying the sub but I think that player base will continue to shrink over time like we’ve been seeing for years now.

Either way fascinating to watch. This new xpac will be my second skip, if wow is part of game pass I will catch up and check the last one out and this one but if not I’ll just come by the forums to see what the games up to a couple times a year for internet sake

[Lochton]

pricy? PRICY?!

hell spend more money than month worth of sub when i go to movies... so 2-3h of fun versus however much you play during the month, if you play 5h A MONTH or more its actualy cheap as hell... pricy my ass...

Yeah, I don't get it.

1 pizza, or barely a movie ticket for me to a 2-3 hour show vs. 100+ hours of gameplay interest, and once you lose interest, then you can unsubscribe. WoW sub, even with expansions, is still cheaper than the majority of my hobby interest, among them being movies, going to the gym, swimming, computer repair, car repair, audiobooks, painting, drawing, etc.

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Totally anecdotal but in my case the wow sub has been extremely poor value compared to other subs so we personally won’t be playing again until it’s wrapped into game pass (which I do sub too, much better value for me these days) or the sub is dropped. I pop into guild wars 2 for a few months every few years, ESO and now new world. I would do the same with wow but not if I have to get the wallet out first.

I think what has changed is I have a lot of subscription services now and they are all less $ than wow and way more value for me, so I look at wow and think why in gods name would I spend that much just to play one game from time to time? Very poor value

If they keep chasing the types of players who really only play one thing at a time they will likely have no problem paying the sub but I think that player base will continue to shrink over time like we’ve been seeing for years now.

Either way fascinating to watch. This new xpac will be my second skip, if wow is part of game pass I will catch up and check the last one out and this one but if not I’ll just come by the forums to see what the games up to a couple times a year for internet sake

Hope once Sony stops blocking the deal, that WoW won't be on PC Game Pass, even ESO is fucked on PC Game Pass compared to the normal game pass.

[Lolites]

Yeah, I don't get it.

1 pizza, or barely a movie ticket for me to a 2-3 hour show vs. 100+ hours of gameplay interest, and once you lose interest, then you can unsubscribe. WoW sub, even with expansions, is still cheaper than the majority of my hobby interest, among them being movies, going to the gym, swimming, computer repair, car repair, audiobooks, painting, drawing, etc.

right?
painting is expensive as hell if you paint a lot and use canvases instead of paper - roughly A1 sized canvas in my country is 13,50e...

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i love how ghostcrawler went from hated while being face of wow to beloved "MMO guru" after he left, despite being implicated in cosby suite and other stuffm and working on zero MMOs since (afaik) until the current RIOT MMO which is still in work and can be massive failure...

[Lochton]

right?
painting is expensive as hell if you paint a lot and use canvases instead of paper - roughly A1 sized canvas in my country is 13,50e...

Oh lord, don't even get me going there.

i love how ghostcrawler went from hated while being face of wow to beloved "MMO guru" after he left, despite being implicated in cosby suite and other stuffm and working on zero MMOs since (afaik) until the current RIOT MMO which is still in work and can be massive failure...

Yeah, I'm confused about this as well. I don't hate the man but he wasn't wearing the cleanest cloak.

[MoanaLisa]

Yeah, I'm confused about this as well. I don't hate the man but he wasn't wearing the cleanest cloak.

He's made some criticism of WoW and Blizzard a couple of times. Instant hero with some. It's a stupid thing people do but too many think that competing game development shops are having some war with one another. So there are friends and enemies. It doesn't really work like that but a lot of people seem to believe it. Greg was the enemy while he was at Blizzard. Now, not so much.

[Lochton]

He's made some criticism of WoW and Blizzard a couple of times. Instant hero with some. It's a stupid thing people do but too many think that competing game development shops are having some war with one another. So there are friends and enemies. It doesn't really work like that but a lot of people seem to believe it. Greg was the enemy while he was at Blizzard. Now, not so much.

Yeah, that makes it an annoying view. He just threw out information and opinions he had on it, and some proved to be outdated knowledge.

[bloodmoth13]

Yes, but monetization just keeps getting worse so i feel safer with a sub than moving forward with QoL existing behind a paywall and $15 tier sets and shit.

I imagine they are looking into battle passes as a replacement, games free, you get rewards for participation but the best are locked behind a paywall.

Frankly if they are still getting money from the sub then why not keep it? if it aint broke dont fix.

[kranur]

Maybe outdated to start off with. But for WoW it's working too good to go ahead and change it.
Sure it's a barrier for new players but WoW is so niche that hardly any new players stick around for more than a few weeks. Even with all the attempts WoW is still a gamr that doesn't know exactly what it wants to be.

[potis]

Yeah, I don't get it.

1 pizza, or barely a movie ticket for me to a 2-3 hour show vs. 100+ hours of gameplay interest, and once you lose interest, then you can unsubscribe. WoW sub, even with expansions, is still cheaper than the majority of my hobby interest, among them being movies, going to the gym, swimming, computer repair, car repair, audiobooks, painting, drawing, etc.

Cause its not about the money in the long sense.

These are just entitled man-kids that think their irrelevant opinion has any matter, screaming about WoW this, negative that, but deep down they know they are gonna play again, or want to play again, and its an inner struggle for them that they cant deal with cause they are not actual adults, or even if they are, they are special entitled snowflake syndrome people that somehow think their existence holds any value.

They need an excuse to play in order to "Not go against" their ownselves "Well if i only payed for 15 hours since i am only gonna play that CAUSE FUCK BLIZZARD AND THEIR BOOSTING, FFXIV IS SO GOOD, but yeah, i would totally play again it if it wasnt for the sub".

Maybe a few that live in countries that have turned into shit holes with the inflation (Like mine, but i can afford it easily) and cant really afford playing anymore cause life caught up and those have a legit reason, but those arent on mmo-champion, the average poster here wanting this is the above.

[Shadowferal]

If Blizz raised had the subscription price by a couple bucks during MoP I would have grumbled, but I would have paid it. After a year of trying to like WoD, the reverse would have had to have happened, they'd have to pay me to play.

[Atherions]

The sub price should be higher and the cash shop removed!

[Lochton]

The sub price should be higher and the cash shop removed!

Increase sub price, almost loop out the shop and pet items on BMAH or world drops, vendor sales (keep charity stuff on the shop, special events stuff, etc), remove the token and let the game time function of the token be able to be unlocked for gold in-game from a vendor with a fixed price, and unable to be traded.

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Cause its not about the money in the long sense.

These are just entitled man-kids that think their irrelevant opinion has any matter, screaming about WoW this, negative that, but deep down they know they are gonna play again, or want to play again, and its an inner struggle for them that they cant deal with cause they are not actual adults, or even if they are, they are special entitled snowflake syndrome people that somehow think their existence holds any value.

They need an excuse to play in order to "Not go against" their ownselves "Well if i only payed for 15 hours since i am only gonna play that CAUSE FUCK BLIZZARD AND THEIR BOOSTING, FFXIV IS SO GOOD, but yeah, i would totally play again it if it wasnt for the sub".

Maybe a few that live in countries that have turned into shit holes with the inflation (Like mine, but i can afford it easily) and cant really afford playing anymore cause life caught up and those have a legit reason, but those arent on mmo-champion, the average poster here wanting this is the above.

It is a weird observation being a Guide in WoW. We have a huge flood of new players, and returning players but there are some that feel like they are here to just find a reason to leave, and I'm like, "Why are you here in the first place?!"

[potis]

It is a weird observation being a Guide in WoW. We have a huge flood of new players, and returning players but there are some that feel like they are here to just find a reason to leave, and I'm like, "Why are you here in the first place?!"

Kinda like that, to me its a mix of things.

As i said, they have this entitlement or call it "Their way of punishment towards Blizzard" to not play WoW (while buying every other Blizzard game and HS packs and similar crap, but lets pretend the 15$ is the problem, ye?) cause of their reasons all okay up to here, you have a problem with the game? Dont play it!

But most of them are full of shit, so they want to play the game again, but the find a new justification with the sub "HERP DERP, I AINT PAYING", so they request something as idiotic as F2P cause you know, nothing else to argue about since they were clueless about the game either way, better argue about the sub cost!

Man, just control yourself and dont play, or/and since you already paid for the sub, shut the hell up, do what you want to do, and log off.

Generally, as usual, especially on here, they are just trying to find their own echo chamber because there will be someone else "SEE, I KNEW I AM RIGHT, I AM GONNA IGNORE THE 15 PAGES THAT SAYS I AM WRONG, THESE 2 GUYS ARE MY NEW BEST FRIENDS".

[SL1200]

I didn't quit the game because of the sub fee, but the price of the sub has stopped me from returning. I'd probably play if they didn't ask for that fee.

[Stickiler]

The issue is when the game has become creatively bankrupt, and after anyone has played two or three expansions of the same thing; quest > level > gear up > instance > repeat, it loses its shine.

There's certainly nothing wrong with feeling like you don't enjoy WoW anymore, but it's certainly not the same for everyone. I'm currently 7 expansions in and I've never had more fun in WoW than I have with Shadowlands. Each expansion has been better than the one before it, except for probably WoD, and I still heavily enjoyed WoD.

I like that Classic has become a thing, for people who enjoyed the older expansions, and I think there's a clear pattern for servers on any expansion, for people who like those expansions the best.

[Lochton]

Kinda like that, to me its a mix of things.

As i said, they have this entitlement or call it "Their way of punishment towards Blizzard" to not play WoW (while buying every other Blizzard game and HS packs and similar crap, but lets pretend the 15$ is the problem, ye?) cause of their reasons all okay up to here, you have a problem with the game? Dont play it!

But most of them are full of shit, so they want to play the game again, but the find a new justification with the sub "HERP DERP, I AINT PAYING", so they request something as idiotic as F2P cause you know, nothing else to argue about since they were clueless about the game either way, better argue about the sub cost!

Man, just control yourself and dont play, or/and since you already paid for the sub, shut the hell up, do what you want to do, and log off.

Generally, as usual, especially on here, they are just trying to find their own echo chamber because there will be someone else "SEE, I KNEW I AM RIGHT, I AM GONNA IGNORE THE 15 PAGES THAT SAYS I AM WRONG, THESE 2 GUYS ARE MY NEW BEST FRIENDS".

Yeah, so, it feels like having to use a blanket to smother them because some are sitting in the Newcomer chat, sulking, making it sour for actual people wanting to play/enjoy a new world.

[deenman]

The monthly sub stopped making sense once new content releases for WoW slowed to a drip after MoP.

GW2 doesn't have a $15 monthly subscription fee, and that has saved me hundreds of dollars. Yes, it has a cash shop where you buy solutions to problems engineered by the devs, but you're looking at dropping about $200 to get all of the content and all of the necessary utilities unlocked forever. Whereas with WoW or FF14 you have to pay $2,000+ to play for ten years. Playing a cash shop game like GW2 is 10x cheaper than playing a sub based MMO.

didnt legion have the best content flow?

[Beefhammer]

The sub is pricy and annoying cuzz sometimes you just wanna play a week or 2 of m+ and be gone, and that's one thing, but i can tolerate it if box price is gone. If you have to pay a big price upfront each expo AND pay sub its definitely too much.

And the week or two of enjoyment you had is well worth the measly $15 you spent.

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didnt legion have the best content flow?

Yup. Ignore Val.

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This, any other take is just superbly dumb. Especially seeing how predatory any F2P games became.
F2P isn't for the gamers, it just maximise the profit for the editors. Covering this with "entry barrier" bullshit gravy doesn't change anything.

These same people would then be here bitching about F2P shenanigans.

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It's a byproduct of the era WoW came from but I don't think that WoW can feasibly operate outside of it at this point. I don't think anybody really wants F2P stuff in WoW and it's bad enough the game has a store on top of a monthly subscription.

I will, however, say that Greg's outlook on WoW's sub model is pretty unique since he is in the extremely enviable position of being able to develop his MMO from the ground up around a F2P model. If WoW were to be re-released today as a from-scratch MMO, I'm almost positive it, too, would use a divergent F2P model. It's simply a way more effective way to fleece a playerbase. (I think the term 'fleece' might be a bit harsh but let's be real... it's not like Blizzard is doing us any favors with the subscription fee.)

Blizzard was never doing anyone a favor charging a price for their games without sub fees. People love to spout they used to make games for the love of it now it's all about money. They created a business to make money off of their games. Hardly anyone makes a game and gives it a way for free. It's always been about making money.