Autogolpé: Whats Happening in Brazil

[Milchshake]

Ongoing In: Democracies fighting off authoritarian fascists. Brazil edition!
Sorry Britain, not you.
Chile, "This is the way."

Brazil has general elections coming up in October. Many are projection Lula will win the presidency. Many others are concerned that Bolsonaro will refuse to step down should he lose. See Self-Coup.
Looks like some Brazilian institutions are pushing back.
Brazilian police have raided the premises of several prominent business supporters of president Jair Bolsonaro days after leaked messages appeared to show the men backing a coup d’état if the far-right leader loses his re-election bid in October. Acting on an order from Supreme Court justice Alexandre de Moraes, who also heads the country’s electoral court, federal police on Tuesday launched a search operation in eight premises in five states, including São Paulo and Rio de Janeiro. The move highlights the growing sensitivity of the court towards threats to Brazil’s democracy ahead of what is expected to be a highly polarised election.

Bernie and the CIA holding hands!
The Senator and CIA have been advising officials about the threat of the coup.
Such fears have prompted Sanders and his staff to draft a resolution that would seek to get ahead of any such eventuality. It would express the view of the Senate that if Bolsonaro loses and refuses to step down, the United States will view it as an unacceptable outcome.


Pretty obvious if the previous occupant of the White House had remained in power, would be no official discouragement on Bolsanaro’s authoritarian moves.
When the President of the United States launches a coup attempt, it tends to have effects across the globe.

[Ripster42]

Sucks that they essentially only get a choice between a fascist and a grossly corrupt pol who was previously convicted in a bribery scheme. Still, better a grossly corrupt pol than a fascist.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Sucks that they essentially only get a choice between a fascist and a grossly corrupt pol who was previously convicted in a bribery scheme. Still, better a grossly corrupt pol than a fascist.

I mean, it's a gross corruption either way... might as well go with the one that smells less of nazi :P

[PC2]

Eh this just sounds like hyperbole and fear-mongering, I don't think you should be expecting a fascist coup. I think it won't really matter whether the Brazilian president is right wing(Bolsanaro) or left wing(Lula) because neither of them are going to be able to stray very far from neoliberalism, imo.

---

I did a YouTube search of this Lula guy and it seems like he needs to take a chill pill, too much screeching.

[Flarelaine]

Sucks that they essentially only get a choice between a fascist and a grossly corrupt pol who was previously convicted in a bribery scheme. Still, better a grossly corrupt pol than a fascist.

I disclaim detailed background knowledge but Lula da Silva was allegedly convicted by an activist judge. The judge was certainly an idol of Bolsonaro's crowd until they broke over something.

[Ripster42]

I disclaim detailed background knowledge but Lula da Silva was allegedly convicted by an activist judge. The judge was certainly an idol of Bolsonaro's crowd until they broke over something.

His conviction got annulled, not because he didn't do it, but b/c their supreme court said the lower court didn't have jurisdiction. They ruled that lower court didn't have jurisdiction because the president at the time had appointed him, after it was publicly announced he was under investigation, to her cabinet, which means a different court, that was set up specifically to try cases involving high ranking gov't officials and had never convicted a member of gov't, had jurisdiction. Let me parse that for you: the top court in brazil, populated with members of de lula's party, annulled his conviction because the court, that was also populated by members of de lula's party, wasn't the ones handling his trial.

He absolutely was a corrupt actor though. That's not really in question. The documentary evidence collected, the testimonial evidence they collected, and the wiretaps all pointed to his guilt.

[Flarelaine]

His conviction got annulled, not because he didn't do it, but b/c their supreme court said the lower court didn't have jurisdiction. They ruled that lower court didn't have jurisdiction because the president at the time had appointed him, after it was publicly announced he was under investigation, to her cabinet, which means a different court, that was set up specifically to try cases involving high ranking gov't officials and had never convicted a member of gov't, had jurisdiction. Let me parse that for you: the top court in brazil, populated with members of de lula's party, annulled his conviction because the court, that was also populated by members of de lula's party, wasn't the ones handling his trial.

He absolutely was a corrupt actor though. That's not really in question. The documentary evidence collected, the testimonial evidence they collected, and the wiretaps all pointed to his guilt.

My first thought was that it sounds like run-of-the-mill South America... but then, populist governments all over are packing courts and using tricks like this.

[PC2]

It looks like the leftist leader is back in power in Brazil. I don't know how Brazil is going to achieve business success when it seems like they don't like the idea of business success...

[Calfredd]

It looks like the leftist leader is back in power in Brazil. I don't know how Brazil is going to achieve business success when it seems like they don't like the idea of business success...

Certainly doesn't help them much when people keep spreading these kinds of lies around.

[postman1782]

It looks like the leftist leader is back in power in Brazil. I don't know how Brazil is going to achieve business success when it seems like they don't like the idea of business success...

Bolsonaro is the Donald Trump of South America. He deserves nothing but long jail sentences.

[Breccia]

Pretty obvious if the previous occupant of the White House had remained in power, would be no official discouragement on Bolsanaro’s authoritarian moves.

One has to wonder how many plans were set in motion, hoping that the Dolt 45 would remain in power and just allow people to be complete dictators to their people.

But just so we're clear...Trump tried to be a full-bodied dictator with hints of oak, cinnamon, and Nazi. Brazil is going full-on moonshine.

They're trying to make inaccurate polls illegal.

In the first round of Brazil’s closely watched elections this month, the polls were off the mark. They significantly underestimated the support for the far-right incumbent, President Jair Bolsonaro, and other conservative candidates across the country.

Many on the right were furious, criticizing the pollsters as out of touch with the Brazilian electorate.

That response was expected. What happened next was not.

At the urging of Mr. Bolsonaro, some of Brazil’s leaders are now trying to make it a crime to incorrectly forecast an election.

Brazil’s House of Representatives has fast-tracked a bill that would criminalize publishing a poll that is later shown to fall outside its margin of error. The House, which is controlled by Mr. Bolsonaro’s allies, is expected to vote and pass the measure in the coming days.

The bill’s final shape and fate is unclear. House leaders have suggested they may soften the legislation, and its prospects in the Senate, where opponents of Mr. Bolsonaro are in the majority, appear far less certain.

Still, whatever the measure’s fate, the proposal and other efforts to investigate pollsters for their recent miscalculations are part of a broader narrative pushed by Mr. Bolsonaro and his allies, without evidence, that Brazil’s political establishment and the left are trying to rig the election against him.

And...at this point, I don't even know if he's right.

[Draco-Onis]

It looks like the leftist leader is back in power in Brazil. I don't know how Brazil is going to achieve business success when it seems like they don't like the idea of business success...

Is there a monster with an R you won't support? the horrible things the Bolsonaro family has said and done not to mention destruction to the Amazon. Brazil has a lot of problem but he made everything worse.

[P for Pancetta]

My first thought was that it sounds like run-of-the-mill South America... but then, populist governments all over are packing courts and using tricks like this.

Ripster is missing large parts of the story tho. The judge that dealt with lula's conviction was then appointed to be the minister of justice in Bolsonaro's government. It was then leaked that the judge had colluded with politicians before the arrest was even made. This was the reason the conviction got overturned, in a fair court he'd probably get convicted tho. It's a mess.

[jeezusisacasual]

It looks like the leftist leader is back in power in Brazil. I don't know how Brazil is going to achieve business success when it seems like they don't like the idea of business success...

You can be pro business and you can be a leftist you understand that right? The rights of a business does not take credence over the masses either, its time people put business leaders in their place, the world is not their playground. If anything to many have swung to the right when we need a new deal style era to reach the world.

[Ripster42]

Ripster is missing large parts of the story tho. The judge that dealt with lula's conviction was then appointed to be the minister of justice in Bolsonaro's government. It was then leaked that the judge had colluded with politicians before the arrest was even made. This was the reason the conviction got overturned, in a fair court he'd probably get convicted tho. It's a mess.

Weird, that's not the reason the courts gave for overturning it. It was literally about the court that tried him not having jurisdiction (b/c of political shenanigans where the prez appointed him after it was announced he was already under investigation). That's the reason the court gave. The bolded is the important part though. He's corrupt.

He's still better than a fascist who is also corrupt.

[ringpriest]

You can be pro business and you can be a leftist you understand that right? The rights of a business does not take credence over the masses either, its time people put business leaders in their place, the world is not their playground. If anything to many have swung to the right when we need a new deal style era to reach the world.

The fascists (whatever they're called - orcs, maggots, 'Z', or Nazis) care little more about "rights of a business" than they do about "human rights". What they want is an end to rule of law (as John Adams said, "a government of laws and not of men"), and a return to something analogous to pre-Enlightenment rule by aristocrats (the fascists, of course, think they'll be among the new bosses, or at least be their favored lackeys). They imagine that once they break representative government and rule of law that everything will continue on as it has, only with themselves lording it over everyone else.

One only needs to look at Russia, and the mafia-run gas station it as become, to see how flawed their vision is. Wealth creation (as opposed to wealth extraction) requires stability, peace, public government, social change, and rule of law. And those all go together in an interlocking web. It's self-reinforcing and self-healing to an extent, but once you actually break it, it seems hard to get it back. That's why countries with broken governments are far poorer than they'd otherwise be - all they can effectively do is sell raw materials, because they're incapable of leveraging human capital into real wealth creation.

[Beefhammer]

It looks like the leftist leader is back in power in Brazil. I don't know how Brazil is going to achieve business success when it seems like they don't like the idea of business success...

Surely you are not this stupid. Business success does not equate to running a government successfully. They are two completely different organisms with two completely different goals. Businesses exist to make money. Governments exist to establish a set of rules to governs and protect it's citizens.

[Breccia]

Surely you are not this stupid. Business success does not equate to running a government successfully.

Now Beeeeeeeeefhammer, you're going to need to back this up. Surely you can name at least one major country who did, in fact, bring on someone whose experience was in business and not governing, and it didn't go well?

Take your time, think it over. I'll be in the Trump thread, AHWINK

[Shadowferal]

It looks like the leftist leader is back in power in Brazil. I don't know how Brazil is going to achieve business success when it seems like they don't like the idea of business success...

Sounds like "hyperbole and fear mongering."
How's that pessimism feeling?

[PC2]

Sounds like "hyperbole and fear mongering."
How's that pessimism feeling?

I mean I can't say what will happen in the future in Brazil but as of right now(Oct 31) I've not seen any evidence that there is a coup or civil war going on. If you can provide evidence that it is 'literally' happening or that something like martial law is inevitable for Brazil then I will change my mind and admit that my optimistic guess was wrong.