Does anyone else, LOVE raiding but hate committing to a schedule?

[Nalam the Venom]

Raiding is by far the most enjoyable thing in WoW to me, the introduction to Mythic + has helped a lot but I still think raiding has something about it, that no other aspect of the game can accomplish. But something about committing to a schedule while in a life already filled with scheduled things is hard to commit to. I understand 100% that this is a "me" problem. I find raid teams I can make the times no problem, it's late enough that all my daily responsibilities are done and the chances of something coming up are low. I find teams I get along with, and I also consider myself a pretty good player. I can keep up with whatever the expansion calls for whether it's AP, Renown, Azerite power, etc. I actually get a decent amount of time to game in the early morning and at night.

But for some reason I always end up quitting a month into a guild and just pugging the entire expansion, I'll do mythic + with my friend group and pug heroic raiding to see all the content. Is anyone else like this?

The only thing I can see that bothers me is the skill level I play at, which is AOTC early on, and then attempting as much mythic raiding as we can usually 50% of the tier ends up draining me, because there's never such a thing as a break or farm content. And I see this early on and feel like id rather be doing something else in WoW with my friends like mythic + or heroic pugging, instead of pushing mythic raid bosses not created for the majority of the population for the next 6 months at night.

I like the wotlk difficulty of raiding.

I do not like the retail difficulty.

Stuff should just fall over, i don't want hours of wipes, It's the loot that i'm after not "seeing the fight" or any thing like that.

[Peacemoon]

I probably prefer the online community vibe than raiding itself.
I quite like to run a friendly community of semi-competent players and slowly work our way through it than just pugging it from start to finish. Feels more like a group achievement and that is rewarding.

Maybe I’m just a social player. SL season 1 was great for getting my guild group KSM, and our whole group getting the achievement on the same dungeon run!

[8bithamster]

Its the acting aspect that i find repulsive sort of how i view the dressup stuff people do at the various events, but i am also against people wearing paint etc at sporting events aswell so i am consistent with how i would like people to behave.

So.. "Everyone has to be exactly as what I want them to be. If they disagree I will mock them until they change".. Sounds like a healthy way to treat people. Instead of you know, respecting others, respecting opinions etc?

[epigramx]

I think the main problem here is that 2 very different expectations about the game clash here. A very, very huge part of the playerbase doesn't see PVE as competition but as cooperation. Yes, there is and always was big interest in the world first race, but none of the people who watch it actually think they are ever going to participate in it.
I understand that there are definitely some people who feel raiding and especially m+ are a competitive activities and therefore everyone should have an equal playing field. That's however not what RPGs are about, which have a big focus on character and gear progression. It's impossible to bring those 2 things together without clashing and making everyone unhappy.

Every guild is competitive even when they don't realize it. E.g. all casual guilds celebrate when they raise realm-rank and it's not empty selfishness either because it helps at recruitment.
Also the most common thing in the world is for common players of casual raiding guilds to compete with each other at least for some harmless teasing fun.

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Committing to a schedule has always been the easy part of raiding for me. Actually, I quite dislike flaky people. Feels like they are actively disrespecting other raid members. Sure, life happens, and we can't control everything, but there's a subset of people who seem to defy the odds on that front.

They're not always jerks. Some people genuinely have flexible schedules to work or have families. E.g. not everyone has a 9am to 5pm job and 0 responsibility at other times (which appears to be the only lifestyle of a working adult this game supports currently for end-game PvE).

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I like raiding well enough but I'm not willing to join a guild and turn this game into a second job so I just do m+

It wouldn't be a second job as easily, if the gear was equalized, just as they admitted it's better gameplay that way for PvP.

[Hambo94]

Raiding is by far the most enjoyable thing in WoW to me, the introduction to Mythic + has helped a lot but I still think raiding has something about it, that no other aspect of the game can accomplish. But something about committing to a schedule while in a life already filled with scheduled things is hard to commit to. I understand 100% that this is a "me" problem. I find raid teams I can make the times no problem, it's late enough that all my daily responsibilities are done and the chances of something coming up are low. I find teams I get along with, and I also consider myself a pretty good player. I can keep up with whatever the expansion calls for whether it's AP, Renown, Azerite power, etc. I actually get a decent amount of time to game in the early morning and at night.

But for some reason I always end up quitting a month into a guild and just pugging the entire expansion, I'll do mythic + with my friend group and pug heroic raiding to see all the content. Is anyone else like this?

The only thing I can see that bothers me is the skill level I play at, which is AOTC early on, and then attempting as much mythic raiding as we can usually 50% of the tier ends up draining me, because there's never such a thing as a break or farm content. And I see this early on and feel like id rather be doing something else in WoW with my friends like mythic + or heroic pugging, instead of pushing mythic raid bosses not created for the majority of the population for the next 6 months at night.

Yeah I definitely agree, I hate all those extra commitments and miss when I could just do the basic weekly stuff (or not at all if I didnt want to) and wouldnt be left behind, because my items were all my power for the most part.

I think mythic being locked to 20 man also ruined a lot to me, and the increasing level of difficulty to ridiculous levels. Its really easy to get into a guild that struggles once they reach X point then collapses/becomes toxic. I miss when I just had me and friends who were all super solid, 10 man heroic (now mythic) and would be one of the first guilds to clear the content on our server. I understand its for balance reasons and I totally get that, I remember certain bosses being wildly different difficulty 10/25 man, but I dont care still. As long as a boss is do-able, I dont mind 10/25 man raids feeling very difficult and having their difficulty spread in different places.

[Xath]

I had a family member who played weekly and we would mock and make fun of them on end over and over until they stopped but what i recalled most about it is that it was always on Saturday nights at 7pm like clockwork. I equate raiding to that schedule and how stupid it is to do so in the modern go go go go world we all live in. While i agree it is like drinking pints at a pub the difference is i do not get a penalty from my mates if i cant make it for that game or evening, raids want ( lol ) you to be on time like your career which is a big red flag to me at this stage in my life, it was not always but now i cant be bothered with it when i can just pug KSM and get close enough rewards for the 2-3 weeks that takes. Plus i refuse to do anything other then tank so there is that also.

Says a lot more about how pathetic you are than anything else that you couldn't just leave someone alone and let them have fun with their friends.

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I treat playing WoW and FF14 like i do any other game from LoL, Witcher , Dota , CoD etc and refuse to schedule my time around it because if i want to go have a few pints with my mates i should not be punished by a guild they should understand, this is not some lame ass weekly dungeon and dragons event that era is dying off and we will all be better for it. WoW and other MMO's need to embrace the pick up and play nature of the current gaming trends unless they want a smaller playerbase i guess?

Raiding needs to become closer to FF14 honestly, kill alot of the trash and make most of it understandable by visual ques instead of reliance on add-ons.

Sounds more to me like you get booted out of any semi serious guild because nobody wants to deal with you then claim you left because of your super busy social life going out and getting blitzed.

[Tiev]

Actually, I would hate not having a schedule more. Since that would mean I would have to impose my will upon all other members of the raid to only raid whenever I felt like it OR I would have to do it solo.

[jeezusisacasual]

Actually, I would hate not having a schedule more. Since that would mean I would have to impose my will upon all other members of the raid to only raid whenever I felt like it OR I would have to do it solo.

I am actually going to join a guild this coming season but once i clear the content once i am done and no i wont explain that to them either for obvious reasons. I swap mains every patch anyhow since i find the gameplay to not be as exciting as most FPS or team oriented games so it keeps it fresh plus a name change and server transfer are only a small bit of cash away. I want to give raiding a shot to see if it can entice me to stick around more then just satisfying my own personal goals.

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Says a lot more about how pathetic you are than anything else that you couldn't just leave someone alone and let them have fun with their friends.

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Sounds more to me like you get booted out of any semi serious guild because nobody wants to deal with you then claim you left because of your super busy social life going out and getting blitzed.

I was a kid at that point and i have learned to not be a bully to them and even said i was sorry so forgive and forget etc. I can be somewhat selfish but i want to do what i want to do all the time ( when it comes to my non working time ). I expect the same scheduling commitments as any other match making online game in WoW which is mostly a me problem. I also barely talk to anyone when i raided and at the time there was no mythic plus but when i sold Cmode carries people got kinda pissy about it.

[Nynax]

Its the acting aspect that i find repulsive sort of how i view the dressup stuff people do at the various events, but i am also against people wearing paint etc at sporting events aswell so i am consistent with how i would like people to behave.

I don't dress up or play D&D, but this comment sounds like it comes from the personality of an untoasted plain bagel that's gone stale.

[jeezusisacasual]

I don't dress up or play D&D, but this comment sounds like it comes from the personality of an untoasted plain bagel that's gone stale.

It was not considered normal or even accepted for the time. Think British conservative and you get most of my general ideas on public appearance and acceptable behavior.

[Stickiler]

Every guild is competitive even when they don't realize it. E.g. all casual guilds celebrate when they raise realm-rank and it's not empty selfishness either because it helps at recruitment.

Not true, at all, even in the slightest, at any point in time. I have never ever been in, talked to, joined a pug raid of, a guild who gives a shit about their realm rank. Realm rank also doesn't help recruitment, this isn't wrath Recruitment is entirely focused around the Looking for Guild system, and is based on raid time/zones, and what difficulty the guild wants to pursure.

[BadgerGirl]

I feel that. That's pretty much why any raid night I attend, I limit to being there for 3 hours at maximum. That seems to be common practice for guilds these days with work schedules and general adult life being as it is.

Flex is a god send tbh, meaning people can dip in and out depending on life commitments. But still it's often a mid week commitment I can't really make with 100% surety, it also means I kinda have to play dps to raid, as you can't have a tank or healer with flaky attendance, which is understandable, but the dps world often feels hyper competitive, too competitive for what I enjoy.

I much prefer m+ as my end game activity as I can generally fit that around my life, solo shuffle also looks interesting, though when I tried it the other day my poor mage got squished

[Ryzek]

I love having a schedule and love raiding. It easy to arrange everything around only 4 hours of raiding a week.

[Elbob]

It was not considered normal or even accepted for the time. Think British conservative and you get most of my general ideas on public appearance and acceptable behavior.

So you think social behaviors should go back in time but you think gaming behaviors should move forward in time? Mate, "British conservative" if that even means what i would assume, would be very big on sticking to arrangements made with 20 other people and not randomly ditching them without notice to go drinking with your mates.

i should not be punished by a guild they should understand, this is not some lame ass weekly dungeon and dragons event that era is dying off and we will all be better for it.

So you are glad scheduled events are dying off but think people should behave in a more "traditional" manner? You don't see any contradiction here? Enjoy your prog I guess, I feel sorry for your future guild.

[jeezusisacasual]

So you think social behaviors should go back in time but you think gaming behaviors should move forward in time? Mate, "British conservative" if that even means what i would assume, would be very big on sticking to arrangements made with 20 other people and not randomly ditching them without notice to go drinking with your mates.



So you are glad scheduled events are dying off but think people should behave in a more "traditional" manner? You don't see any contradiction here? Enjoy your prog I guess, I feel sorry for your future guild.

I was meaning in how people handle themselves in the public space and i am sure you even understand that. I used to raid at a decent level but i want more different experiences instead of 1 long form experience so i tend to compare genres since they occupy the same online space. Mythic plus allows me to get near parity without the same time constraints and commitments that raiding wants you to have which is a win / win for both sides of the end game PVE coin since people who want to raid obviously get rewarded more for the hurdles and those who just want to pick up and play get near equal rewards since everything below Mythic is considered second class to begin with.

Raiding should become more akin to a lobby shooter ( kind of how Mythic plus pugs are ) to get me more involved but i am willing to join a raid team and give it another go since the last time i engaged with it was the last season of WoD ( Mannoroth and Archimonde made me hate the game ). Like i was saying before i hate every MMO minus FF14 and WoW seasonally ( Lost Ark is growing on me ) so perhaps i have became the old man screaming at birds ( which is not a bad thing mind you ) and i enjoy FF14 just because there is a end date for player power on a pug like scale ( If you cant tell i do not want to interact with many people ). But also if you count Lost Ark it is a brilliant small group MMO experience that is quickly moving up my own personal scale with its small raid sizes and a lesser massive group feeling.

[Amariw]

Me too OP. The way i used to solve this was just getting into pugs until i get AOTC and then its smooth sailling from there. Problem is, nefore you got aotc and if not in very first 2 weeks of a season, wow pugs can get rather toxic and the funnest parts about em (learning fights and overcoming difficulty) tends to make people leave and groups fall apart.

I dont play FFXIV, but i hear there's much more tolerance there to "learning pugs" in which people dont mind wipes and accept or even welcome it. Would make my raiding experience way better if that was the case, and i suspect many others as well.

[Koollan]

Flex is a god send tbh, meaning people can dip in and out depending on life commitments. But still it's often a mid week commitment I can't really make with 100% surety, it also means I kinda have to play dps to raid, as you can't have a tank or healer with flaky attendance, which is understandable, but the dps world often feels hyper competitive, too competitive for what I enjoy.

I much prefer m+ as my end game activity as I can generally fit that around my life, solo shuffle also looks interesting, though when I tried it the other day my poor mage got squished

Yeah, DPS competition generally makes me frustrated. It's a big reason why I most of the time refuse to play a DPS role for raid, and almost always heal (unless I wanna play my mage). Then again, given that I'm a raid leader for DF, I'm definitely not a competition-based person so I'd rather everybody get a shot rather than sweat over 'elemental doesn't do X amount of DPS compared to enhance' etc. etc.

[epigramx]

Not true, at all, even in the slightest, at any point in time. I have never ever been in, talked to, joined a pug raid of, a guild who gives a shit about their realm rank.

join more guilds. even the most casual care because it means they became better.

you try to battle human nature itself by saying "I don't care if I win".

[Stickiler]

join more guilds. even the most casual care because it means they became better.

They're not comparing themselves to the realm rank though, because nobody gives a shit about realm rank. They compare themselves to their previous progress, like "hey we're getting 6 bosses down on our first night instead of 4, nice"

you try to battle human nature itself by saying "I don't care if I win".

That's such a stupid argument, because you win by killing the boss. Realm ranks don't come in to it.

[lllll]

I like raiding but I hate scheduling my playtime. I want to play when I feel like it, not when others are free and scheduled to play.

I raided 3 days a week from vanilla to wotlk, schedules suck.