Playing retail made me lose interest in Classic

[Grinning Serpent]

But probably not why you think. I actually think Retail is a bit of a train wreck when it comes to the actual game - I got to like level 15 in Mulgore and just stopped wanting to play because it was vomiting so much at me, so fast, and everything seems to be geared towards leveling your nth alt instead of a new character on a new server for the first time since Legion. With them trying to minimize the leveling process so much, I honestly wonder why Retail has it at all - why not just do a Guild Wars 2 kinda thing where character level is basically just a sort of achievement system and is largely irrelevant for "meaningful" content? I actually fired up GW2 for the first time in forever just to see if memory matched reality and... yeah, it's pretty neat how you can almost immediately access all of the "end game" content in GW2 (but *holy shit* they've become mega predatory with their freemium UPGRADE TO A FULL ACCOUNT bullshit in the time I've been away, I feel like I need a fucking shower after playing.)

But, no. What made me lose interest in Classic, after playing Retail, is how much *better* Retail looks and sounds. Animations are better, character textures are better and customization is better (I love all the little gewgaws tauren can add to their characters, the war paint or tattoos a lot of races get, etc), sound effects are better (Shield Slam sounds like actually slamming something not that weird DINK noise, and whatever the fuck Classic's awful Devastate noise is), etc. It really actually bothers me that those nice things aren't even an *option.* I don't think it's because of some adherence to NoChanges, I think it's just that it would take them some extra effort and time to make "modern sounds and visuals" an option for Classic, and Classic is operating on a shoestring budget.

Then, also, the automatic quest helpers, the better, new Dragonflight UI, on-screen proc notifications that don't require WeakAuras, etc. Like, I love the world and gameplay of Classic way more than Retail (although I think the new DF talent system is fucking awesome), to the point that I'm not really interested in playing Retail's disjointed, "shit piled on top of shit piled on top of other shit" world. But after even just an hour or two of playing Retail, I'm also *really* not wanting to go back to the ugly, archaic jank of Classic. It's weird, playing a little bit of Retail makes me not want to play Classic... but playing a few dozen hours of Classic makes me not want to play Retail.

Maybe I'm just wishing Classic had a larger budget?

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I agree with pretty much all of this. Retail shows the gains we have made in tech over past 20 years or so. But the leveling experience is designed around people who hate leveling. If you actually want to play through some of the old story lines... Well I tried, with Drustvar, but couldn't even finish that one zone without Chromie telling me I was out of time.

[ablib]

I think I dislike Retail for the reasons you like it.

I've been hardcore on Classic pretty much since it came out. I haven't played Retail in over a year now. I came back to check out the Dragonflight pre-patch, and I just can't get into it. I think what I found is that Retail is so modernized with it's graphics and visuals, it doesn't even look like WoW to me to me anymore. This is similar to how people think WoW needs photo realistic graphics to be considered "good" graphics, when in reality, it would totally change the game to something other than WoW.

Other than graphics and visuals....

I queued for a random heroic, got Tazavesh, and it was awful. There was so much shit going on I couldn't see or understand anything. I can't tell how many people left the group at the part where we had to run around trying to figure out the password to proceed part.

I still hate how complicated Retail is. I left the game with a 220 item level. Came back, and I don't have even have a high enough item level to queue for Castle Nathria LFR. What? How? Ok. So I'm trying to find the gear catch-up mechanism to get a higher ilvl. I played through Zereth Mortis a little, got a few minor upgrades. But nothing to increase my item level much. I just happened to look at the loot that drops from heroic dungeons and magically, mid-expansion, the loot that drops from these dungeons changed and is now a much higher item level. Ok. So, basically, even though I previously progressed through Castle Nathria, after leaving the game for a year or so, I come back to being pretty much a freshly dinged 60 that needs to grind out heroics again? No thanks. Blizzard is going to implement this phantom item level changing retail bullshit into Wrath Classic, when it's entirely unnecessary.

Classic is a simpler world, that LOOKS like World of Warcraft. I'm so firmly in the #NoChanges crowd, that I even have my graphics set to "Classic", because ultra graphics improves the water (and other things) to a level that didn't exist back then.

[Foolicious]

But, no. What made me lose interest in Classic, after playing Retail, is how much *better* Retail looks and sounds. Animations are better, character textures are better and customization is better (I love all the little gewgaws tauren can add to their characters, the war paint or tattoos a lot of races get, etc), sound effects are better (Shield Slam sounds like actually slamming something not that weird DINK noise, and whatever the fuck Classic's awful Devastate noise is), etc.

Totally feel you on that. In my first wotlk raid i remembered why i played without sound for such a long time. Standing in the meele camp you have to endure a permanent onslaught of annoying sounds.
There are a handfull of things i like better in wrath like the undead models or shadowform that lost their personality on retail imo, but its a way prettier game today i think. (Also way more hardware dependend and thus more inaccessible than wrath)

[varren]

Some of the new visuals/sounds are horrendous though. Retail Whirlwind for example has 0 impact compared to Classic Whirlwind.

[netherflame]

But the leveling experience is designed around people who hate leveling.

This is the most true statement about retail I think I've ever heard.

Its sad how poor the experience is while leveling now because the game doesn't even want you to enjoy the experience, it just wants you to be on with it....

[Ilookfly]

I dont think the retail visuals are that different

[relaxok]

I actually think the spell sounds in classic are amazing.. it’s some of the most ‘right’ feeling sound design ever in a game to me.. the sound of Ice Block is an example

[Coolface330]

I never got into Classic. Only tried it because friends peer pressured me. I always called Classic - It's bait for those losers that always talk about Once In A Lifetime, this happened. 10 years ago, it was this good. Never realizing, every day, new Once in a Lifetime Moments come out all the time. They'll worship the release of Playstation 1, or Playstation 2, but if Playstation 5 gets released, they're nowhere to be seen.

Whenever someone remembers the rosey coloured past, they never tell you about the shit in the air, the smell of piss on the sidewalk.

You're supposed to take the Gold from the past, combine it with the experience of the present, and create an amazing future.

In my opinion*

[garicasha]

I’m split on some of them.

Ret I will take retail visuals any day, they went from “whoosh” to “KAPOW” in Shadowlands and are just super cool.

But for my priest, I want that crappy blue mind-flay line hands down, even if the dark lines convey the void better.

And for mechanics, I was super stoked to make a new Death Knight and relive the glory.

I did one Ramparts run and was like…I can only Death Strike twice before I have to wait 12 seconds?!?!

[Zardas]

I agree with pretty much all of this. Retail shows the gains we have made in tech over past 20 years or so. But the leveling experience is designed around people who hate leveling. If you actually want to play through some of the old story lines... Well I tried, with Drustvar, but couldn't even finish that one zone without Chromie telling me I was out of time.

Chromie is made precisely for those who want to level fast and don't care about the story and the ambiance much. If you want to enjoy those two things, do not use Chromie.

[Nak88]

Playing Classic made me lose interest in Retail.

[MasterHamster]

Retail and Classic have deviated so much in terms of design that there's nothing weird about one making the other feel off-putting. There's a lot of janky shit in classic I dislike, but the retail design paradigm of just throwing you onto a theme park ride doesn't appeal to me. Nothing except high-tier m+ and raiding even has a remote chance of killing you. While WotLK certainly tones down the risk of death, there's still a lot more "spontaneous danger" there. I hate just how much mobile gaming influences that retail has.


The last time I played Shadowlands, the closest thing I ever got to having to care about my healthbar was when I was killing an elite quest mob... that I was actually supposed to use an item on to nerf it down to a regular ass mob. I feel like I'm being constantly insulted by the game's handholding. I don't even care about gear in the slightest, because there's no content that makes me feel like I need better gear. That's the antithesis of how an RPG should be.

[FelPlague]

Some of the new visuals/sounds are horrendous though. Retail Whirlwind for example has 0 impact compared to Classic Whirlwind.

Timestamp 2:12

You really gunna tell me retail (the one on the left labled beta) has ZERO IMPACT compared to classics? (The one shown on the right labled live.)

like bro there is NO WAY you can seriously watch that video and say the new stuff has no impact compred to the old stuff...



Like bladestorm

Right is What classic has
Left is retail



and if sound is the complaint. here is what we have now, and here is what classic has which apparently the previous has 0 impact compared to? idk the first sounds like an actual heavy swing of a HUGE ass weapon, while the other sounds like spinning a baton.

[Just Passing through]

Haha...nice topic.

I am glad we did get Classic after all...so there is choice and yeah...for some ppl it is "you think you do....and you ACTUALLY do (want Classic)"

Personally I did go back to WotLK (back then my favorite xpac) for the DK starting experience and the mount (yeah, I am a sucker for that stuff) and was like "WTF is this all?" Couldn't remember half of how the game used to be....finished the intro quest and went straight back to retail.

But if you love any Classic x-pac better....good. I am happy for you. Unironically.

[Ludek]

The last time I played Shadowlands, the closest thing I ever got to having to care about my healthbar was when I was killing an elite quest mob... that I was actually supposed to use an item on to nerf it down to a regular ass mob. I feel like I'm being constantly insulted by the game's handholding. I don't even care about gear in the slightest, because there's no content that makes me feel like I need better gear. That's the antithesis of how an RPG should be.

Actually the fact you are able to plow through packs of mobs in Shadowlands is the very much the RPG thing, the ultimate power fantasy - your character by that point in the story is a veteran champion with ~20 years of combat experience, from boars, demons, undead hordes, demigods and so on, also the character by then has some out-of-mortal-world gear, so yes it's actually pretty logical you can 2 shot anything what is not a boss.

Is it a good game design? We could argue. Is it valid RPG setting? Yes.

[Lathspell]

For me the appeal of classic is diminished a lot because it will end eventually, and nothing will carry forward. I still have my first character from vanilla in retail and everything I did is recorded in it. Seems a bit pointless doing anything there because eventually it will probably be removed or left to gather dust.

[Cracked]

Like bladestorm

Right is What classic has
Left is retail

Yes and that's exactly the problem lol. It's overly flashy with NO WEIGHT BEHIND THE ACTIONS. That's why people feel like there no "impact", because it's so painfully far from physical reality. It just feels like characters are whipping around their foam swords. Now it does in classic too, but way, way less, to where people can suspend their disbelief.

And don't get me started on the new combat animations, especially undead and humans were just so much fricking better to play, you could feel the weight in their animations. Now it's just all flash no power. But I guess people who watch modern movies are just used to that, however I'm disappointed by the animators and VFX people at Blizzard, because they used to do so much better with the limitations they had back then.

[FelPlague]

Yes and that's exactly the problem lol. It's overly flashy with NO WEIGHT BEHIND THE ACTIONS. That's why people feel like there no "impact", because it's so painfully far from physical reality. It just feels like characters are whipping around their foam swords. Now it does in classic too, but way, way less, to where people can suspend their disbelief.

And don't get me started on the new combat animations, especially undead and humans were just so much fricking better to play, you could feel the weight in their animations. Now it's just all flash no power. But I guess people who watch modern movies are just used to that, however I'm disappointed by the animators and VFX people at Blizzard, because they used to do so much better with the limitations they had back then.

"The weight in their animations" bro come on watch the video, and take off the rose tinted goggles 2 inches thick. Watch the animation of most of these abilities and tell me they hold weight compared to their replacement... come on you gotta be kidding.

[shise]

I rather have a good game over graphics.

Yes, retail looks and sounds good, technology has gone up. Imo, wow has the best look and feel of any MMO out there by far, it sort of always did but now specially.

But back to line 1. Gameplay is far more important than looks.