Is the sub-based monthly model outdated?

[rhorle]

You arent young at 25+ ...

It is still young on your scale as you are start it at 18+ after excluding "kids". Senior citizens gaming isn't an outlier. At least it is less of one then those that insult others for gaming while gaming themselves. Everything you write changes based on how your previous post was countered. Whales are irrelevant as you made the claim that young people don't pay while old people do. Whales of any age will pay which again contradicts your original statement.

Games go free to play for more then just whales. Because whales would pay a sub and any other additions in a non free to play game.

[mbit2]

It is still young on your scale as you are start it at 18+ after excluding "kids". Senior citizens gaming isn't an outlier. At least it is less of one then those that insult others for gaming while gaming themselves. Everything you write changes based on how your previous post was countered. Whales are irrelevant as you made the claim that young people don't pay while old people do. Whales of any age will pay which again contradicts your original statement.

Games go free to play for more then just whales. Because whales would pay a sub and any other additions in a non free to play game.

25+ is far beyond where adult starts. You probably beyond 30 and coping with it by still calling yourself young. The majority of roblox is kids in age 9-16. Those are the young kids. Not manchildren stuck in a game. Pensioners dont play games, quick google gives you even wow data https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/...ng_release_of/ even classic is less than 1% age 50+.

And i explicitly said in previous posts the f2p players are the content for whales. Its the only reason they get free acess. Whales wouldnt play a game by themself as it wouldnt have any players. This is such basic shit and you cant get anything right. I guess this is how you farm posts, make comments where you get everything wrong for guaranteed bait.

[Feroxxy]

Subscriptions are one of the nails in a coffin. It makes you doubt if you even have the time to play the game for that month, or makes you look at if the game is being well maintained. In case of WoW it's the shittiest option of all MMO's and online games out there.

[rhorle]

25+ is far beyond where adult starts. You probably beyond 30 and coping with it by still calling yourself young. The majority of roblox is kids in age 9-16. Those are the young kids. Not manchildren stuck in a game. Pensioners dont play games, quick google gives you even wow data https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/...ng_release_of/ even classic is less than 1% age 50+.

You are basing senior citizens don't play games on a graph about Russia from a Russian Facebook group? I quickly found one that has 15% of respondents 55+. It shows the two biggest age groups for gaming is 18-34 at 36% and under 18 at 24%. If the majority of those playing Roblox are young kids then doesn't that mean you are wrong about who spends money on gaming? As majority of the the $1.9 billion net revenue would be from kids.

It really seems like you are making numbers and statistics up or are viewing it through a very narrow lens. The statements you keep making either get contradicted by yourself or not backed up by data. If free to play players are the content for whales then the game doesn't go free for whales. But to get players for the whales. Again you contradict yourself.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-game-players/

- - - Updated - - -

Subscriptions are one of the nails in a coffin. It makes you doubt if you even have the time to play the game for that month, or makes you look at if the game is being well maintained. In case of WoW it's the shittiest option of all MMO's and online games out there.

Most free to play games have a subscription and encourage people to purchase them for the extra rewards and benefits. WoW is hardly the worst MMO or online game out there. Look at how OW2 has players begging for loot boxes to return.

[mbit2]

You are basing senior citizens don't play games on a graph about Russia from a Russian Facebook group? I quickly found one that has 15% of respondents 55+. It shows the two biggest age groups for gaming is 18-34 at 36% and under 18 at 24%. If the majority of those playing Roblox are young kids then doesn't that mean you are wrong about who spends money on gaming? As majority of the the $1.9 billion net revenue would be from kids.

It really seems like you are making numbers and statistics up or are viewing it through a very narrow lens. The statements you keep making either get contradicted by yourself or not backed up by data. If free to play players are the content for whales then the game doesn't go free for whales. But to get players for the whales. Again you contradict yourself.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-game-players/

your links "Games" includes sudoku&co. My link was about wow. Including mobile pensioner games gets the % up but also makes it irrelevant to this discussion. Majority being kids doesnt mean most money comes from kids. Why do i have to explain elementary kids dont get big budgets from adults?

[relaxok]

not gonna read all 11 pages but isn’t WoW free for x number of levels now? I know it was 20 long ago but maybe it’s like 1-59 now or something?

Try it out free, if you like it, sub.. seems reasonable to me.. other option would be yearly smaller expansions that cost money.

[MoanaLisa]

Subscriptions are one of the nails in a coffin. It makes you doubt if you even have the time to play the game for that month, or makes you look at if the game is being well maintained. In case of WoW it's the shittiest option of all MMO's and online games out there.

You would never know that this has worked well for WoW for 18 years. That really is the whole point. It works well for WoW.

[rhorle]

your links "Games" includes sudoku&co. My link was about wow. Including mobile pensioner games gets the % up but also makes it irrelevant to this discussion. Majority being kids doesnt mean most money comes from kids. Why do i have to explain elementary kids dont get big budgets from adults?

We were talking about gaming in general and not just wow though. Those kids are the ones spending the money in Robloxs. It is semantics to make a note that it comes from a non-playing parent first. It is still being earned from those kids playing through their parents. Young kids certainly do get spending money from their parents. It might not be common in your country but it isn't uncommon in other parts of the world.

[Roflfaceroll]

Its more like kids can play 6h while adults have trouble finding time and this is precisely why tokens are selling. Aging playerbase who has more money than time.
Lastly buying token isnt playing for free. You are just working in a game. If you translate the hours you grinded for a token its likely below minwage.

No, duh it makes less than minimum wage. This isn't a fucking job. It is an option to use the gold you earn in game to pay for game time hence not paying real money. My post was to explain that if you don't want to pay money you can pay with in game gold. Most of the stuff you do in the game will net you gold. Most people do the callings and weekly quests anyways.

Also what I mean by "kids" is still live with their parents, no job, still financially dependent, etc... Those are the groups that usually can't pay on their own hence the group that would benefit the most from the "free" aspect of free to play.

I was just stating that I didn't buy gold and wouldn't use it on a lego. I also stated that the process was broken to rank it up, but apparently you wanted to interpret that as chastising you.

You also never needed to have a fully ranked lego in SL. The effect stayed the same no matter what rank. If you had a higher rank the only change it did was give you a bit more primary stats and made your ilvl look higher. If you bought gold for that you obviously never actually read the tool text on it.

Probs thought you were buying something with real money that made you feel like you were paying to win.

But my posts here have mainly been against the f2p models of games. I was just pointing out an aspect that makes gives players a choice if they don't want to pay RL money.

[Itisamuh]

What about a subscription is outdated to you? How do you people determine these things? Almost everything these days is based on a subscription model, if anything the mmo sub was ahead of it's time and is perfectly dated for these times...

The fact that other similar games manage just fine while either not requiring a subscription, or including expansions and whatnot as part of the package, as well as giving currency to spend on store items. No matter how much you enjoy the game, they absolutely do not need to charge full game price for expansions on top of the subscription, not to mention all the extra services and store items. Other models would bring in more new players who might be curious, take away the pressure to play enough to justify the cost, and take away the decision of whether or not to quit between patches.

[Roflfaceroll]

The fact that other similar games manage just fine while either not requiring a subscription, or including expansions and whatnot as part of the package, as well as giving currency to spend on store items. No matter how much you enjoy the game, they absolutely do not need to charge full game price for expansions on top of the subscription, not to mention all the extra services and store items. Other models would bring in more new players who might be curious, take away the pressure to play enough to justify the cost, and take away the decision of whether or not to quit between patches.

Funny how all these people claim the sub is outdated yet wow has worked for almost 20 years with the sub model. Please name a f2p game model that has existed as long and still kept a strong active player base(Many f2p games claim to have hundreds of millions of players, but they include anyone that has ever made an account. They never even had to play the game to be counted as a player. Even if you quit unless you fully delete the account you are still considered a player to claim.).

The subscription is not outdated and the price of wow isn't even a real barrier if you have a job. The basic expansions also cost less than console games on release. New ps5 games can cost over $70. The base edition only costs $50. So you are misinformed or talking out your ass.

The currency systems are a predatory tactic as well. By using the buffer currency they reduce the guilt people normally feel when spending real money. If they posted actual prices as real currency people are less likely to spend $50. But they will spend 4800 coins which cost them $50.

The only real barrier to playing wow is affording a computer that can run it.

[rhorle]

The fact that other similar games manage just fine while either not requiring a subscription, or including expansions and whatnot as part of the package, as well as giving currency to spend on store items.

Most F2P games have a subscription option. It isn't that subscriptions are bad or outdated. Just that Blizzard hasn't added a cheaper option. Sure they could lower sub price. Sure they could lower or remove the box price. Those things show the true issue and that it isn't the sub. It is the cost. F2P games have a lower cost of entry but can quite easily equal the current costs of WoW.

WoW already has the starter edition. Where players can play for free until level 20. So there is a way for truly new players to try out WoW with out having to pay a cent. If a person already quits between patches why wouldn't they continue? There is no content for them regardless of paying.

[Lochton]

not gonna read all 11 pages but isn’t WoW free for x number of levels now? I know it was 20 long ago but maybe it’s like 1-59 now or something?

Try it out free, if you like it, sub.. seems reasonable to me.. other option would be yearly smaller expansions that cost money.

From the 15th, all the content is available from lvl 1-20 for free, you can keep completing, even at the cap of 20. Of course, no access to Dragon Isles or Dracthyr.

[mbit2]

No, duh it makes less than minimum wage. This isn't a fucking job. It is an option to use the gold you earn in game to pay for game time hence not paying real money. My post was to explain that if you don't want to pay money you can pay with in game gold. Most of the stuff you do in the game will net you gold. Most people do the callings and weekly quests anyways.

Also what I mean by "kids" is still live with their parents, no job, still financially dependent, etc... Those are the groups that usually can't pay on their own hence the group that would benefit the most from the "free" aspect of free to play.

I was just stating that I didn't buy gold and wouldn't use it on a lego. I also stated that the process was broken to rank it up, but apparently you wanted to interpret that as chastising you.

You also never needed to have a fully ranked lego in SL. The effect stayed the same no matter what rank. If you had a higher rank the only change it did was give you a bit more primary stats and made your ilvl look higher. If you bought gold for that you obviously never actually read the tool text on it.

Probs thought you were buying something with real money that made you feel like you were paying to win.

But my posts here have mainly been against the f2p models of games. I was just pointing out an aspect that makes gives players a choice if they don't want to pay RL money.

I guess you are talking about neets? Never came to my mind since i would rather label them as failed adults instead of kids. So that's why i didn't understand you and went on ranting about kids vs adults. Also my point really was just that gold making ingame is mostly seen as work and terrible hated. Even when we were still kids I knew way more people who refused to spend any time on gold making and stay rather poor than people willing to grind. You probably experience it yourself in guilds when it came to raiding and bunch of people said cant do no gold to afford enchants. Nowadays some of those buy a token so they can afford enchants but not one more is willing to burn their precious time on gold making. I do believe you are right that neets will grind it out since they have nothing but time sitting all day gaming. Question is how big that playerbase is. Another interesting question is where the tokens actually go since you can convert them into bnet currency which means not all end up as wow subs and quite a few individuals hoard them.
It might be a bit of a closed loop where boosters buy tokens for gold only to get the gold back for their boosting service from the token seller.

[zenzaliv]

The only true gate to playing wow is getting a computer that can run it. That's like $1000 if you are lucky for bare minimum for DF.

This is 100% False. I just bought a PC for $350 and i can run WoW at very high settings no problem. Even with the increase to requirements for DF, WoW is still capable of running fine on low end machines.

[ReleaseDay]

15€ a month is nothing to me (but with the financial crisis in Europe it's a lot for many people) but with blizz putting so many things on an in-game shop, that bothers me. If anything, those who pay the monthly fee should get those months etc. with their sub. Only those not paying the "premium" would have to buy the mounts from the shop.

[Lochton]

TThe only true gate to playing wow is getting a computer that can run it. That's like $1000 if you are lucky for bare minimum for DF.

What!? Mate, I run Shadowlands on a machine salvaged from a dumpster, though, to be frank, there was a good GPU in but still, the top value of my rig would be something like 600-700 dollars, runs Dragonflight Beta and Shadowlands on third highest (8 out of 10)

[Twdft]

The currency systems are a predatory tactic as well. By using the buffer currency they reduce the guilt people normally feel when spending real money. If they posted actual prices as real currency people are less likely to spend $50. But they will spend 4800 coins which cost them $50.

This is a topic I wish the EU would tackle. Any in-app purchase should only be possible with real € zł Ft лв Kč kr. No substitute like gems, hearts, coins or whatever.

[Roflfaceroll]

What!? Mate, I run Shadowlands on a machine salvaged from a dumpster, though, to be frank, there was a good GPU in but still, the top value of my rig would be something like 600-700 dollars, runs Dragonflight Beta and Shadowlands on third highest (8 out of 10)

Go ahead and go use a site to add up the parts to run it. Don't forget to add mouse keyboard and monitor and OS. So lets see. $30-40 for keyboard. $40-60 for a decent mouse. Monitor you might be able to find for $140 OS will run you another $100. That makes about $300 already on the low end and that isn't even the computer yet. You maybe be able to find the lowest end processor for df still on the market, but only a fool would purchase a processor that will only work for 1 major patch. You can probably get a processor for $150 that will last you a couple years. Harddrive $100 motherboard $100. Ram another $90. Ok we are up into the $600-700 range already and still have some more parts to go. Power supply you might be able to get away with 550w, but a 750w costs about the same and video cards can be power hogs. So the 750w for about $70 if on sale. Still need the case lets say $40.

So you are already up to about $800 and still haven't added the gpu which is the most important part. Yes you can thrift and buy used parts. But you take the risk of the part failing completely without warranty. Lets say you can find like a 2060 or hey even a 1080 thats still new. You might be able to get it for another $200. So that puts you at? Around $1000
( Yes you may be able to use a tv, but still. If you are living with your family you would probably be best with a your own set up.)

This is also for a 1080p rig. Nothing fancy at all. Just enough to run it. ( Though 1080p looks so horrible after playing on 4k)

Scrapping your first rig together is probably what many gamers have done. I know I did, but many new people just getting into gaming don't get lucky and find a rig or have parts donated from friends when their friend upgrades. Many new players have to build their own. Yes you could buy a Prebuilt, but.... bloatware.

[zenzaliv]

Go ahead and go use a site to add up the parts to run it. Don't forget to add mouse keyboard and monitor and OS. So lets see. $30-40 for keyboard. $40-60 for a decent mouse. Monitor you might be able to find for $140 OS will run you another $100. That makes about $300 already on the low end and that isn't even the computer yet. You maybe be able to find the lowest end processor for df still on the market, but only a fool would purchase a processor that will only work for 1 major patch. You can probably get a processor for $150 that will last you a couple years. Harddrive $100 motherboard $100. Ram another $90. Ok we are up into the $600-700 range already and still have some more parts to go. Power supply you might be able to get away with 550w, but a 750w costs about the same and video cards can be power hogs. So the 750w for about $70 if on sale. Still need the case lets say $40.

So you are already up to about $800 and still haven't added the gpu which is the most important part. Yes you can thrift and buy used parts. But you take the risk of the part failing completely without warranty. Lets say you can find like a 2060 or hey even a 1080 thats still new. You might be able to get it for another $200. So that puts you at? Around $1000
( Yes you may be able to use a tv, but still. If you are living with your family you would probably be best with a your own set up.)

This is also for a 1080p rig. Nothing fancy at all. Just enough to run it. ( Though 1080p looks so horrible after playing on 4k)

Scrapping your first rig together is probably what many gamers have done. I know I did, but many people don't get lucky and find a rig or have parts donated from friends when their friend upgrades. Many new players have to build their own. Yes you could buy a Prebuilt, but.... bloatware.

Still incorrect, someone who wants to start playing WoW can easily get a full setup that will run the game at really good settings for total under $500. I spent $350 and the only thing I didn't need to buy was a monitor. If you are a smart shopper you can find nice stuff on sale that will keep the price very low.