Buffed Naxxramas Will Backfire, Disaster Ahead!

[Tart]

This aged well.

[Khaza-R]

This aged well.

Everyone who's seen a thread from this OP knew it would.

[NoiseTank13]

For me the only issues have been razuv because of tanks not line of sighting.
And four horsemen cause ya know, it requires organization of who goes where. ,but once everyone knows their job it's ez, so usually takes 1-2 wipes in a pug before you arnt wiped in first 15 seconds, Nd then it's just a garuntee kill.

our group just tanks thane and baron together and nukes thane down followed by baron

that fight is a nonfactor lol

[FelPlague]

our group just tanks thane and baron together and nukes thane down followed by baron

that fight is a nonfactor lol

The two in the back usually end up a hassal, cause its the ones that need spellcasters

[Elbob]

The two in the back usually end up a hassal, cause its the ones that need spellcasters

The back can be 2 manned by any random somewhat durable class + 1 moderately geared holy pally until the rest of the raid gets back there.

[Hctaz]

I've never played Wrath before. I didn't play Classic. My first two Naxx pugs have both resulted in comfortable full clears despite a couple of wipes.

The buffs haven't actually done much of anything.

I think the buffs really are just there to try to offset the power gap that characters got from 3.0 to 3.3.5.

Death Knights released in a pretty busted OP state, so, in order to not just nerf DKs into the ground after their release, they buffed other classes and specs while nerfing DKs slightly.

The end result was an overall power increase between TBC and Wrath, and some of that power increase was immediately obvious by looking at the 3.3.5 Wrath talents.

There are a few stand out talents I'm thinking of in particular, but I was a Fury warrior main in Classic and TBC so that is the talent tree I am most familiar with.

I also was able to find a 3.0 talent tree (it was NOT fucking easy to do so) so I'm not just comparing TBC talents to 3.3.5 talents, these are 3.0 talents to 3.3.5.

Fury warrior, for example, started Wrath off with a 30 rage cost Bloodthirst that had a 5 second CD. Their "Improved Berserker Stance" talent was the same as it was in TBC only giving a 10% attack power increase and a threat reduction while in 3.3.5. it was changed to give a 20% STRENGTH increase.

For anybody who doesn't know, 1 point of Strength is 2 points of attack power baseline. This wasn't just doubling the AP buff from 10 to 20%, this was quadrupling the AP buff from 10% of AP to 20% of strength.

There were likely some nerfs to compensate for this, but it's still a good example of how much the power was shifted.

I wish I had a way to see individual attack damage scaling on old abilities versus 3.3.5 ones. I'm sure there were abilities that had increased AP or SP scaling.

Some other buffs being to rogues: Lightning Reflexes originally was a 5 point talent that only increased your dodge chance in 3.0. In 3.3.5 it was changed to a 3 point talent that gives 6% dodge and 10% melee haste.

Sword Specialization was changed to Hack and Slash which did only keep the same effect but added axes into the mix as well (it's a buff in a way I suppose).

Adrenaline Rush was changed from a 5 min CD to a 3 min CD.

Savage Combat (the raid debuff that increases physical damage taken by the target) was buffed from 2% up to 4% total.

And Killing Spree was given a 20% increase damage buff for the duration. It used to just do normal damage, but it also provides a multiplicative 20% damage buff while it's active in 3.3.5.



So basically with all of that being said, I think Naxx was going to get steamrolled without the buffs. My guild went into Naxx the first night it was released, and we've never ONCE seen Anub'Rekhan actually cast his swarm ability. From day 1, we had enough DPS to burst him down before he got to do anything in his fight. Imagine if he didn't have 20% increased health...

This many months in, and most fights in Naxx don't even get to use their abilities. Faerlina dies before she can even enrage, Gluth never gets to cast Devastate, Noth doesn't get to teleport away, Heigan doesn't make it to the safety dance phase, we stack three of the four Horseman on top of each other and just cleave them down... It's pathetic LOL

[Djuntas]

Funny to see this thread. When ppl do like 7k dps with average skills on patchwerk and 4000 gearscore. Dead in 1½ min patchwerk for best guilds, but pugs kills it under 3 mins np.

[FelPlague]

The back can be 2 manned by any random somewhat durable class + 1 moderately geared holy pally until the rest of the raid gets back there.

i know, but for pugs it usually takes a wipe or 2 for them to get it right.

[munkeyinorbit]

This post didn't age well. Most players cleared Naxxramas in week 1-2 of the raid with greens lol

Imagine trying to shame someone over a 14 year old game. That's pretty cringe.

[davesurfer]

our group just tanks thane and baron together and nukes thane down followed by baron

that fight is a nonfactor lol

I MT and this is what we do. This fight is so much easier than back in the day and I assume it is because our classes are the final patch. We have not wiped once and back in the day I dreaded this fight.

- - - Updated - - -

The two in the back usually end up a hassal, cause its the ones that need spellcasters

Right or wrong we just have our warrior slap on a shield and tank. So on 25 man we 3 tank. Probably don’t need to but it has worked since 1st lockout so we stuck with it

- - - Updated - - -

Imagine trying to shame someone over a 14 year old game. That's pretty cringe.

To be fair I don’t think it is shaming. This thread is about how hard it will be. It is easier than it was when it was released

[Bigbazz]

our group just tanks thane and baron together and nukes thane down followed by baron

that fight is a nonfactor lol

Our guild just tanks 3 of them at the back left together, and then finishes off Zeliak when the other 3 are down. With the speed they go down and the ease of healing one clumped group I think it's even safer this way, we did Immortal using that Strat.

[NoiseTank13]

Our guild just tanks 3 of them at the back left together, and then finishes off Zeliak when the other 3 are down. With the speed they go down and the ease of healing one clumped group I think it's even safer this way, we did Immortal using that Strat.

god damn what is your dps

does lady's mark not do that much damage or what

[Hctaz]

god damn what is your dps

does lady's mark not do that much damage or what

Different guild (probably I dunno it could be somebody in my literal guild I guess) but we do the same strat.

We misdirect and shoot them to pull while we're all stacked in Lady's corner. They all disperse to their four corners as usual, with Lady coming right to us and dying before Rivendare even manages to get to us. We usually only take like 2 stacks from her before she dies, then we focus Thane and cleave Rivendare we'll usually get to 3 or 4 Thane stacks before he dies, and then 3 or 4 Rivendare stacks before he dies. We can survive 3-4 Thane and 1-2 Rivendare stacks hitting us at once before Thane dies and then it's easy from there.

So... basically where you'd tank swap off at anyway.

Edit:

Here's a link to the log showing debuffs specifically so you can see timings

https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/rep...uffs&source=29

and the damage done main page

https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/rep...pe=damage-done

[Bigbazz]

Hctaz explained it better than I could. I'll be honest because I'm not part of leadership and the mechanics are so irrelevant in Naxx I actually have no idea what we do other than just run in there and zerg. The only thing we did on Immortal to make things safer was not have melee switch to Zeliak at the end, they just stand around to avoid any random deaths. That was the 2nd week of doing it that way after someone then failed on Thaddius last week, so it's not like we're big elite gamers here. https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/rep...pe=damage-done

Next week we are going to take down all 4 at the same time, so probably a 2+2 strategy. After that I'm guessing we will shift to 3+1 but with ranged also putting a lot of initial damage to Zeliak (the back right one), meaning the 3 stack will be alive longer but the encounter will be faster, for people to parse. In my experience the damage with 3+1 is very minor/irrelevant.

[Hctaz]

Hctaz explained it better than I could. I'll be honest because I'm not part of leadership and the mechanics are so irrelevant in Naxx I actually have no idea what we do other than just run in there and zerg. The only thing we did on Immortal to make things safer was not have melee switch to Zeliak at the end, they just stand around to avoid any random deaths. That was the 2nd week of doing it that way after someone then failed on Thaddius last week, so it's not like we're big elite gamers here. https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/rep...pe=damage-done

Next week we are going to take down all 4 at the same time, so probably a 2+2 strategy. After that I'm guessing we will shift to 3+1 but with ranged also putting a lot of initial damage to Zeliak (the back right one), meaning the 3 stack will be alive longer but the encounter will be faster, for people to parse. In my experience the damage with 3+1 is very minor/irrelevant.

Tbf, if y'all got Immortal then I'd consider you to be elite enough gamers.

But yeah Naxx is such a joke even after the buffs that I really haven't needed to put much effort into learning specifics either. I just know all this stuff because I was so heavily invested in WoW during retail Wrath that I could probably raid lead every fight in the entire expansion to this day without having done any of them for 13-14 years.

I'm honestly just relieved that we eventually got to Wrath Classic because it feels like all that excessive hard work I put into that game when I was 15 is paying off for something.

[Dioporco]

Classic dumb thread aged like milk under the sun

[Seratox]

Imagine trying to shame someone over a 14 year old game. That's pretty cringe.

If you think this is shaming, I would hate to see how much of a menty-b you'd have at actual criticism.

[Battlebeard]

I think this aged well, I took me to this resey to finally get an invite and clear Naxx 25 (many wipes tho), far harder than back in the day. It took 5 weeks, I expected at least twice, but either way it was not easy.

[anveena]

Nothing you've posted so far proves your OP. You struggling to find a pug naxx 25 for 5 weeks is just a you problem and doesn't prove some trend in the game. I've had the exact opposite experience so far with pugging naxx. 8 full clears in 5 weeks on two characters with 8 wipes in total across all raids.

[Xath]

I think this aged well, I took me to this resey to finally get an invite and clear Naxx 25 (many wipes tho), far harder than back in the day. It took 5 weeks, I expected at least twice, but either way it was not easy.

People are doing ICC level damage enough trolling lol