Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Good god is this still going on? How can something people apparantly hate so much with such vigor keep people busy a freaking month after the show finished?

Also why did you fucking watch it in the first place or more than one episode?

Give it a rest allready.
See you when season 2 airs becuase everyone in here hating the ever living fuck out of it will definetly noooot watch it *winkwink*

The posters in question were super invested in the show failing before it aired and aren’t willing to accept that it was any thing other then a flop so when ever viewer numbers come out from Amazon or other sources they need to make sure every ones know that all the numbers are wrong or being fakes by Amazon.

This will likely continue for every news update we get until season 2 or they find a new show to obsessively hate.

[kenn9530]

and yet every available metric shows it to be a failure of epic proportions, so bad was its' failure it's got all upper management at Amazon desperately scraping around to get the fires put out and run as much damage control as is possible, with the showrunners all but begging people to watch the show in recent interviews they did for the same publication calling out the 'creatively bankrupt first season', but i mean you don't believe in hard data, you don't believe when people tell you something months in advance which turns out to be true after the fact, because the only metric you believe in is your feelings, and as you have demonstrated countless times in this thread as well as myriad other threads over time, if something hurts your feelings it's the biggest travesty known to mankind, but by all means, keep telling everyone how much of a masterpiece this commercial failure has been, i'm sure your little echo chamber will enjoy that, all 5 of you.

You dont know how to read metrics then, the show is doing better than most other show they have and better than many tv shows available, you obviously dont know what a failure is, goodluck with your completely wrong opinion.

The simple reality you refuse to accept is more ppl like the show as it is than dont like it, the only thing that matters is enough ppl like the show than not, that then means its a success.

[MakeMeLaugh]

You're right, but why even waste your time? This thread has entered the usual phase popular threads in this sub-forum enter; the same handful of miserable cunts whining incessantly and anyone that dare be positive is being paid, are a shill, or a troll, or whatever. Anything positive is seen that way. There is immediate distrust. While anything negative is met with serious acceptance, because how could this piece of media be seen any other way? Though, tbf, this thread started off that way long before there was even a single episode.

Personally, I'll just wait until S2 starts and see which of them immediately decides its dogshit in the months before it airs, even if they change anything for the better. That's all this shitshow of a sub-forum ever is; the dregs of media consumption. People that doesn't actually watch things (unless they get called out on it enough and then do lol). People that just read summaries (Xath). People that are blatant hypocrites that will accuse you of arguing for the sake of it, while doing exactly that themselves (Triceron). People that make YouTube videos 6 months before an episode airs to tell you how evil cannot create anything good with a butchered Tolkien quote (Val). These are not serious people and certainly don't deserve your time. Let them rage like the impotent beings they are. If they don't do it here, they're probably just doing it in YouTube comments anyway.

Its a shame I won't read replies to this post, though.

That's because this series was really bad. It's probably the worst series I've ever seen and I'm not even exaggerating.

Considering the money Amazon has, the popularity of the franchise, how much lore there's available(doesn't matter if it's not about the time the series happens), how there are movies already that worked wonderfully, it amazes me how on earth the end product came up like this. I feel like Amazon just gave money to some dudes who had no idea what Lord of the Rings is and did not supervise it at all.

I cannot comprehend how bad the end product end up, in my mind it was impossible to end up being this bad.

[bledgor]

That's because this series was really bad. It's probably the worst series I've ever seen and I'm not even exaggerating.

Considering the money Amazon has, the popularity of the franchise, how much lore there's available(doesn't matter if it's not about the time the series happens), how there are movies already that worked wonderfully, it amazes me how on earth the end product came up like this. I feel like Amazon just gave money to some dudes who had no idea what Lord of the Rings is and did not supervise it at all.

I cannot comprehend how bad the end product end up, in my mind it was impossible to end up being this bad.

Also people pretend it was a massive success, the show spent over 600 million on this season alone, you need to get MASSIVE numbers to justify that, not just good or even great numbers, and the fact it isn't sitting on top for not even weeks is proof the show performed subpar.

[rhorle]

Also people pretend it was a massive success, the show spent over 600 million on this season alone, you need to get MASSIVE numbers to justify that, not just good or even great numbers, and the fact it isn't sitting on top for not even weeks is proof the show performed subpar.

For a traditional network sure. Amazon doesn't use third party ads and has a monthly/yearly subscription to more then just Prime Video. There is a stand alone prime video subscription that would be easier to use for a basic numbers=success equation but I bet that is a minority. Also House of the Dragon didn't sit on "top" either so does that mean it is sub-par and a failure as well? Or do we change the definitions based on show and how much you like them?

A show about a serial killer held the top spot for much of both shows. Does that mean everything but that show was a failure?

[Biomega]

Also people pretend it was a massive success, the show spent over 600 million on this season alone, you need to get MASSIVE numbers to justify that, not just good or even great numbers, and the fact it isn't sitting on top for not even weeks is proof the show performed subpar.

Part of the problem is that "success" is a very vague term that can mean any number of things. Did it please critics? Audiences? Award committees? Is the financial success measured in absolute numbers? Relative to the budget? Relative to expectations? Relative to number of screens?

As an example, you could say a movie making $500m box office is successful; but if that's a marvel movie with a star-studded lineup and hundreds of millions in budget, that's not actually a success. Whereas if that's an independent film shot by a debut director on a two million dollar art grant, it's a success beyond imagination.

Any number of ways of measuring "success" can be used and yield different results for different projects. In terms of absolute numbers, I'm sure RoP pulled in a viewership that for most shows would be considered a success; but this is not just ANY show, it's a show with extremely high expectations, and an extremely high budget. Ignoring that by simply regurgitating absolute numbers obscures highly important facts.

And then there's also the expectations on the side of the producers. A project can be critically AND financially "successful", and yet still disappoint the expectations of the producers. It sounds silly to call something that, say, makes $100m profit and wins awards a "failure", but if the studio went in hoping to make $500m profit and win more awards, that could well be a disappointing performance.

It's all relative to how you're looking at it. There's few if any magic threshold numbers in the absolute.

[bledgor]

As an example, you could say a movie making $500m box office is successful; but if that's a marvel movie with a star-studded lineup and hundreds of millions in budget, that's not actually a success. Whereas if that's an independent film shot by a debut director on a two million dollar art grant, it's a success beyond imagination.

Any number of ways of measuring "success" can be used and yield different results for different projects. In terms of absolute numbers, I'm sure RoP pulled in a viewership that for most shows would be considered a success; but this is not just ANY show, it's a show with extremely high expectations, and an extremely high budget. Ignoring that by simply regurgitating absolute numbers obscures highly important facts.

And then there's also the expectations on the side of the producers. A project can be critically AND financially "successful", and yet still disappoint the expectations of the producers. It sounds silly to call something that, say, makes $100m profit and wins awards a "failure", but if the studio went in hoping to make $500m profit and win more awards, that could well be a disappointing performance.

It's all relative to how you're looking at it. There's few if any magic threshold numbers in the absolute.

For my part it goes along the lines of 3 things:

1. Does it make enough money to justify it, because while yes Amazon has money to spare if the show is consistently losing money that means it is either massively wasting money or not getting near enough viewership to justify spending the money on it vs other shows.

2. How is the reception of the show? This is a much harder to measure statistic as there are like you said a variety of measurements for it, be it the actual viewership (which we can really only speculate about), the amount of secondary product it drives consumers to buy/view (a much worse stat for amazon because unless purchased/watched on their website they aren't getting money for games/toys/etc), and the general buzz/talk about the show (be it online or in person). The last one is also fairly hard to measure as you can't get a number for person to person talk/watercooler talk about the show, but the online buzz for the show was IIRC 10% of HotD, a direct competitor for the fantasy genre and what Bozo himself said he wanted to create/beat.

3. Finally pride/quality of the art created. This one is another that is hard to properly measure as some shows/movies people love and others people hate. It in part is related to the other two as well, as money/talk can certainly point to quality, though it isn't always the case. Sometimes shows/movies that are masterpieces never make the money/name they deserve, but at least people can respect the work still. For me a good example of this (that also happens to be adaptation) is Dredd. The movie was fantastically made, enjoyable throughout, and captured the essence of the source. Yet the movie lost money, and while it has an okay cult following, it didn't drive press/talk. Rings of Power other than the CGI doesn't really drive people to love it, it doesn't have that "It" factor to make something about it immortal/have a cult following. Even the people I know that enjoyed it didn't have a thing about it that they loved, they just enjoyed it. As soon as another pretty show comes around it will be largely forgotten.

So TLDR with the show having an amazing/immensely well known source, the largest budget for a show ever, and one of the easiest/best value subscription/methods of access, what we got was not a rousing or even good success, heck personally I see if as a massive failure. However even if I view it subjectively I wouldn't be happy with the results if I was amazon, as the show was given a diamond spoon and produced results you can get from much cheaper shows like Reacher.

[Triceron]

You don't think other shows that do stuff isn't pre-planned and part of marketting? A speech at a industry conference is "marketing"? Why does it matter if it is pre-recorded or not if it was being done remotely?

Very few shows address rumors like we are getting now. Numbers from Nielsen haven't even had a full week of the season finale and you are already asking for them to discuss it. They also rarely have done such for their past show. Do you have an actual link to Amazon talking about The Boys right after the season ended? I can't find a press release and google just shows articles talking about Nielsen or season premiere comments by Amazon.

I didn't criticize their marketting, I criticized their lack of addressing the supposed success this show had, since that's what we're calling it right? Everything in the marketting covers news and interviews, regardless of whether the show did well or not.

If you're linking to stuff that's pre-recorded and interviews that are part of an official podcast that obviously will have a final episode that is released after the finale is already out, then you're not really addressing anything I'm talking about.

All you're being is dishonest as fuck and replying to my comments without addressing anything I've actually said, really. Arguing with yourself again.

[rhorle]

All you're being is dishonest as fuck and replying to my comments without addressing anything I've actually said, really. Arguing with yourself again.

So I take it you turning to insults and the usual derailment of discussion means you won't be providing a source to these times Amazon has done it in the past? I've addressed the things you've said. You don't like them. A speech at an industry conference live or remote/recorded is not "standard show marketing" no matter how much you want to claim it is.

If you are going to get so upset at being asked to provide a source please put me back on ignore.

[DingDongKing]

I haven't watched the show, but I find the unhealthy obsession with the show by some of its detractors to be quite amusing.

[MakeMeLaugh]

I haven't watched the show, but I find the unhealthy obsession with the show by some of its detractors to be quite amusing.

It has "Lord of the Rings" in the name, what did you expect? Same thing with the new "Star Wars" trilogy. There's a huge fanbase that loves these franchises, to see it treated like shit will obviously make people very mad.

[Shadowferal]

The Fall of Númenor is redundant but beautiful Brian Sibley's editorial work deserves some praise too. Rather than bring an academic on board, the Tolkien Estate were wise to select a storyteller of Sibley's calibre for this project, which requires a deft touch to build a narrative out of the disparate elements of Tolkien's Second Age writings. Sibley, who is best known among Tolkien fans for his work on the 1981 BBC radio adaptation of The Lord of the Rings, has constructed his narrative by following the chronology of the Second Age laid down by Tolkien in 'The Tale of Years.' Using this framework, he drops each fragment of Second Age material into its corresponding place within the timeline. It's a straightforward approach, but it works; it brings a Biblical grandeur to Tolkien's fictional history, beginning with the genesis of Númenor, its people, its flora and its fauna, before structuring the rest of the narrative around the genealogies of the island's Kings and Queens.

The Fall of Númenor and The Rings of Power
Of course, the motivation for producing such a volume is inextricably tied to the new Amazon TV series The Rings of Power, which is set in this period and just finished streaming its first series. Rings is the elephant in the room. It goes unmentioned both by Sibley in his introductory matter and by HarperCollins in their press release announcing the book.

Despite this lack of direct acknowledgement, the connection is certain to guarantee sales for The Fall of Númenor, though it will likely be unsatisfying to those who are coming to it as fans of the TV show alone. The book overlaps little with the first season of The Rings of Power and Tolkien's writing is so dense and replete with confusing character names that it will prove challenging for anyone other than the most lore-soaked fans.

[Triceron]

So I take it you turning to insults and the usual derailment of discussion means you won't be providing a source to these times Amazon has done it in the past? I've addressed the things you've said. You don't like them. A speech at an industry conference live or remote/recorded is not "standard show marketing" no matter how much you want to claim it is.

And that isn't relevant to the show's actual performance, is it?

It's a pre recorded 'this is what we're already working on' message, that's it. As I said, you're just arguing with yourself. And not sure what you think is an insult. If you are being dishonest and I call you out on it then that isn't an insult dude.

[rhorle]

It's a pre recorded 'this is what we're already working on' message, that's it. As I said, you're just arguing with yourself. And not sure what you think is an insult. If you are being dishonest and I call you out on it then that isn't an insult dude.

It was supposed to be a keynote address and award acceptance but turned into a recorded interview because of a positive Covid diagnoses. It isn't a message like you are trying to claim. Regardless of your opinion of that just provide a source for your claim. The only one being dishonest here is yourself because instead of providing a source to your claims you turn to attacking me. Just put me back on ignore already.

[Triceron]

It was supposed to be a keynote address and award acceptance but turned into a recorded interview because of a positive Covid diagnoses. It isn't a message like you are trying to claim. Regardless of your opinion of that just provide a source for your claim. The only one being dishonest here is yourself because instead of providing a source to your claims you turn to attacking me. Just put me back on ignore already.

If you admit that it didn't actually address what it was intended to do then you can't exactly use that as an example of addressing something that it did not manage to.

Like I said, you're being dishonest with the very examples you're bringing forth. You're spinning things for the sake of arguing. Calling you out on this isn't an insult against you, it's pointing out you're intentionally trying to twist facts.

It comes down to a simple question - Has Amazon come out to make any statement about Rings of Power's performance (success) after the finale? No, they have not. Whether you compare this to HBO, who has spoken out on HoD's success, or even Amazon's own past with the Boys, which they also talked about being successful and moving forward on spinoffs and sequels, we're actually getting very little talks from them on Rings of Power outside of what we know they've already planned.

It's really something simple that you can agree on since you even started with an argument saying 'they don't have to do that', so I'm not sure why you even pivoted on that point in trying to bring up this mipcom thing as an example at all. You're literally just trying to twist the facts now to fit a completely different argument. And it has nothing to do with what I've said. That is dishonest as fuck, since you're not actually sticking to the context of the conversation and just going on a tangent and implying I was making arguments that were never made in the first place.


If you really want to be ignored that much, just stop replying. I'm not holding a gun to your head in having to read my replies or making you hit that reply button. Don't place that blame on me, dude. You are in control of your own actions. I'm not the one arguing about their marketting or whatever. You brought that up, not me.

[rhorle]

Like I said, you're being dishonest with the very examples you're bringing forth. You're spinning things for the sake of arguing. Calling you out on this isn't an insult against you, it's pointing out you're intentionally trying to twist facts.

I'm not twisting any facts. You said they made no statements. I provide some statements they made. You then tried to twist a remote interview because of Covid-19 was "pre-recording marketing" and dismissed it. You keep refusing to provide a source of where Amazon did what you want for other shows. The only one dishonest here is yourself and you are now ranting about me, the poster, as a defense for your own unwillingness to prove your claim.

[Triceron]

I'm not twisting any facts. You said they made no statements. I provide some statements they made. You then tried to twist a remote interview because of Covid-19 was "pre-recording marketing" and dismissed it. You keep refusing to provide a source of where Amazon did what you want for other shows. The only one dishonest here is yourself and you are now ranting about me, the poster, as a defense for your own unwillingness to prove your claim.

Which is, again, statements taken out of context.

If I'm replying to someone who was talking about the performance of the series, then that is the context of my reply. That you're then interpreting the statement as a blanket 'They didn't make any statement at all' then that is your own failure to address the context of the replyg.

You just read something you didn't like, jumped into a conversation that you weren't a part of, picked what you wanted to argue and went forward with it. Again, nothing to do with what I've said, everything to do with you wanting to argue what you choose to. I was replying to someone who was already talking about negative reviews and rumors, and my reply is to say that Amazon has been silent on addressing any of the rumors or performance of the series after the finale.

This has nothing to do with them actually releasing marketting content after the finale, lol. I know the podcast exists and had an episode that aired after the finale. That's clearly not what I was talking about.

The only thing that you've said that was relevant to what I've said was that they don't have to say anything. Sure, they don't have to. That is your opinion and I'm fine with disagreeing with you on that. I think it is important because other companies like HBO already did so for House of the Dragon, and HBO or its spokespeople/reps (GRRM included) have confirmed or dispelled rumors of cancelled spinoffs. IMO, they're very transparent about the performance of their shows and what they have planned.

[kenn9530]

Also people pretend it was a massive success, the show spent over 600 million on this season alone, you need to get MASSIVE numbers to justify that, not just good or even great numbers, and the fact it isn't sitting on top for not even weeks is proof the show performed subpar.

Its had over 100 million viewers so it is a massive success, the company generates over 2 billion a month just from amazon prime, where is your proof when you claim the show isnt a success.

Amazon invest in new and more shows to retain and gain more amazon prime subs, so all money spent is further investment, its essential to keep bringing in new shows/films.

[rhorle]

You just read something you didn't like, jumped into a conversation that you weren't a part of, picked what you wanted to argue and went forward with it. Again, nothing to do with what I've said, everything to do with you wanting to argue what you choose to. I was replying to someone who was already talking about negative reviews and rumors, and my reply is to say that Amazon has been silent on addressing any of the rumors or performance of the series after the finale.

Not to mention Amazon has been completely silent after the series finished. Considering how much they were touting the success of the show at launch, the silence now is deafening.

They were not completely silent after the series finished. It was only after you were proven wrong on that count that you shifted the goalposts of your statement. You've yet to provide a source to prove that Amazon has done so for other shows. We know as much about season 2 of HotD as we do about season 2 of RoP. Very little. HBO has talked about performance where Amazon has not. They usually don't though so their silence on that subject doesn't mean anything.

Will you provide proof of your claim that Amazon does talk about series success immediately following the series? Or will you just deflect with commentary about myself?

[Triceron]

They were not completely silent after the series finished.

Okay, I agree with you then. They weren't completely silent. They released post-finale podcast episodes and had a pre-recorded Mipcom interview.

Happy?

HBO has talked about performance where Amazon has not. They usually don't though so their silence on that subject doesn't mean anything.

And as I've said, I'm happy to disagree with you on that. It doesn't mean there isn't any silence. All you're providing here is your opinion, and one that I'm not contending whatsoever. Repeating yourself isn't changing anything since I've addressed that above.

That you think they don't need to doesn't mean the silence isn't there, especially in light of the rumors and ambiguity surrounding the show's performance and future. All we know is that they're still dedicated to pushing out 5 seasons, that's it. They've been way more transparent with the Boys than they have with Rings of Power. If you think they don't have to be transparent, that's fine.

Why you feel this needs to be defended, I'm not sure. All you're doing is choosing to take statements I've made out of context, and nitpicking arguments which I'm in no way making in the first place. I mean, if you want to argue technicalities then sure, I'll let you have em. Doesn't change anything that I said really. It's just you being anal retentive.