Buffed Naxxramas Will Backfire, Disaster Ahead!

[Ssateneth]

considering people have icc talents with icc scaling, i'm not surprised. people did much less dps with 3.0.* talents

[Caprias]

considering people have icc talents with icc scaling, i'm not surprised. people did much less dps with 3.0.* talents

Literally disproven by old naxx run videos back in 3.0, it's not a huge deal.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

I think this aged well, I took me to this resey to finally get an invite and clear Naxx 25 (many wipes tho), far harder than back in the day. It took 5 weeks, I expected at least twice, but either way it was not easy.

No... this did not age at all. Your doomsaying even back then was recognized as the battle cry of all less-than-decent players worried about them being able to clear content fully.


If you honestly think 25-man Naxxramas is not easy, then you are playing with 24 other less-than-decent or outright bad players.

Maybe 25.


It's the mentality of players like yourself that make it infinitely harder on yourselves to get content done. Not knowing how to vet PUG groups or the players around you is typically the #2 thing a player who can't get content completed should be doing. If your point #1 was "find a guild" but you are still running into point #2, re-direct back to point #1.

Personally, I think the number #1 thing is a mixed bag based on what you as the player bring the table (typically your skill) and knowing your limitations. But it all funnels back to the mentality that you and lot of these players share: It's willful pigeon-holing and placing incorrect blame.

[ONCHEhap]

People are doing ICC level damage enough trolling lol

People are doing ICC level damage.

Battlebeard sure ain't

[Tojara]

OP probably never mentioned that it took him 4 weeks to actually get to level 80. Not saying this is a troll, but holy shit. A group of 6 of us pugged WoTLK with another random guild of like 8 people the first week it became available, and filled the rest with pugs. We didn't even have two priests, so Razuvious ended up being the hardest boss. We never controlled the run, and the raid leader was just awful but we still cleared the entire thing in 3 1/2 hours.

We're running on 3.3.5 talents. Most of what made DK OP wasn't in PvE DPS on launch, it was the dumb utility. It's not hard to go through a comprehensive history of DK changes to see it either. DKs were always a really good DPS class from the start to the end. The changes nerfed them in PvP and tanking, but even though a lot of their utility was nerfed, they're still part of the best tanking duo in WoTLK. IBF at the start was a 1 min CD, bone shield was 40% DR, and AMS changed back/forth between a 45/60 second CD that had no relative damage cap.

What makes DKs strong right now is the 20 IAS talent in frost never use to stack with sources of IAS like WF (or if you pick up the raid buff version a few talent rows down). This allows any DKs that invest in it to get a free 20% IAS along with dual wield specialization being buffed from 5/10/15 OH weapon damage to 8/16/25, and the kick talent giving a free 4% strength. That's why you see so many dual wield unholy DKs at the moment. Even without those changes you would still see a lot of them because the relative strength of gargoyle is massive when you push for short kill times.

Some classes were buffed some were nerfed. Knowledge is key. Most people know to throw their CDs into trinket procs and potion procs now, this wasn't always the case in 3.0. When everybody does that kill times decrease, and a result all your CD uptimes get improved making overall DPS seem way higher than it actually was. Arcane mages were bonkers in WoD, but there were some guilds killing the second boss in HFC for example with 17 mages in <20 seconds. That's not really so much skill as it is throwing a bunch of CDs and the dumb ring on top of each other.

I'd love to see how the OP gets into groups to begin with. Or what type of game he wants. Anything past AQ40 must've been miserable for him and all of TBC. If WoTLK Naxx is a backfire to you, you might as well quit the game now lol.

[Bramickias]

I think this aged well, I took me to this resey to finally get an invite and clear Naxx 25 (many wipes tho), far harder than back in the day. It took 5 weeks, I expected at least twice, but either way it was not easy.

Only players showing up to pugs in pvp gear, green questing gear, or gearing completely wrong are getting turned down for pugs.
I'm going to assume you fit into those categories if youre having a hard time finding a pug. My alts have been getting in MS>OS pugs since the first week, and clearing has only been getting easier with everyone getting more gears each week.

[craigw]

People are doing ICC level damage.

Battlebeard sure ain't

made me chuckle

[Hctaz]

I think this aged well, I took me to this resey to finally get an invite and clear Naxx 25 (many wipes tho), far harder than back in the day. It took 5 weeks, I expected at least twice, but either way it was not easy.

No thanks.

I have Undying on two different characters with Immortal on one of the two and the full Glory of the Raider 25 man.

My second character was absolutely not even close to pre-raid BiS.

This did not age well.

[Ilookfly]

Its too easy. Every boss dies in just a few minutes. I dont play in a guild, I just pug and so far the only achievement I havent gotten is Immortal. Naxx is a joke aswell as both Malygos and Sarth 3d. Cleared everything without issue since week 1 with only pugs.

Your post did not age well.

[mercutiouk]

Yeah, struggling with the content atm, unless VERY VERY new to wow in general is probably a bit of a red flag at present.

It was RELATIVELY harder buffed on warmane and still a complete face roll. We're worlds ahead in understanding character performance from the first time through. Naxx was vastly easier than nerfed black temple and... that was a pushover to be fair.

[VinceVega]

I think this aged well, I took me to this resey to finally get an invite and clear Naxx 25 (many wipes tho), far harder than back in the day. It took 5 weeks, I expected at least twice, but either way it was not easy.

Hilarious. It is a you-problem. Nothing else.

[MrLachyG]

I think this aged well, I took me to this resey to finally get an invite and clear Naxx 25 (many wipes tho), far harder than back in the day. It took 5 weeks, I expected at least twice, but either way it was not easy.

so based on your personal anecdote that proves you right? you completely disregard the thousands of pug groups that have cleared it since it launched and focus on your own failure to get a group good enough to clear it. That is some extreme bias right there, blatantly ignoring all the evidence and just focusing on your own experience. That's right up there with flat earther logic.

Side note: you said it took you 5 weeks to find a group... were you actually looking for a group? each week? or is this another one of those facts you conveniently left out. Given how you ignore actual data and focus on singular anecdotal data instead, I wouldn't put it past you to have also not bothered to look for a group until now so that it fits your narrative better.

Get your head out of the sand, child.

[Sorshen]

I think this aged well, I took me to this resey to finally get an invite and clear Naxx 25 (many wipes tho), far harder than back in the day. It took 5 weeks, I expected at least twice, but either way it was not easy.

Curious that's your experience, it feels as easy as back in the day, my main gets immortal with a pug, only wipe I had on my ilvl200 geared pug alt was Razuvious once or twice cause bad mc coordination and 4H cause back team feeling overconfident in (not) doing the mechanics.

[Kehego]

i dont have immortal because our priests take turns not showing up on time

Wotlk as current content was pokemon gold difficult
wotlk as classic content is pokemon red difficult

[Battlebeard]

Curious that's your experience, it feels as easy as back in the day, my main gets immortal with a pug, only wipe I had on my ilvl200 geared pug alt was Razuvious once or twice cause bad mc coordination and 4H cause back team feeling overconfident in (not) doing the mechanics.

Wiping and disbanding on Patchwerk over and over, cause tanks die. Priests failing on Raz. No decurse on Noth, even wiping there. Wiped on every single boss in fact.

- - - Updated - - -

so based on your personal anecdote that proves you right? you completely disregard the thousands of pug groups that have cleared it since it launched and focus on your own failure to get a group good enough to clear it. That is some extreme bias right there, blatantly ignoring all the evidence and just focusing on your own experience. That's right up there with flat earther logic.

Side note: you said it took you 5 weeks to find a group... were you actually looking for a group? each week? or is this another one of those facts you conveniently left out. Given how you ignore actual data and focus on singular anecdotal data instead, I wouldn't put it past you to have also not bothered to look for a group until now so that it fits your narrative better.

Get your head out of the sand, child.

Try getting a group without achievement and blue gear, it's not easy. Everyone denies cause of low GS. That addon is killing the game...

[Rendark]

Try getting a group without achievement and blue gear, it's not easy. Everyone denies cause of low GS. That addon is killing the game...

That's like saying try running a marathon with no legs.

[anon5123]

Wiping and disbanding on Patchwerk over and over, cause tanks die. Priests failing on Raz. No decurse on Noth, even wiping there. Wiped on every single boss in fact.

Imagine being so bad at the game that you wipe on fucking noth
holy shit lmfao

if you can't get through wotlk naxx, unironically quit the game right now because it's not gonna get any better for you in ulduar/toc when there are actual raid mechanics to deal with

[Demsi]

Is OP a troll? I really cant tell

[Kehego]

Wiping and disbanding on Patchwerk over and over, cause tanks die. Priests failing on Raz. No decurse on Noth, even wiping there. Wiped on every single boss in fact.

- - - Updated - - -




Try getting a group without achievement and blue gear, it's not easy. Everyone denies cause of low GS. That addon is killing the game...

i mean
and this is making assumptions here you could 1) lead a raid 2) do heroics and loot epics and make your gear better 3) do heroics and use badges to make your gear better

almost every class/spec has at least ONE 200il weapon from heroics, idk your character cant be that bad because you'd literally have to not play the game at all to be that bad

[agentsi]

As you might know, Naxx in WotLK Classic will be buffed and harder than it was back in the day. Some people cheer for this, but I think this will be a HUGE disaster for the game. Now, I will generalize some, and I don't speak for everyone, but I know many agree with me. Read everything before you comment please!

Lets face it, WoW Classic is the "dad-gamer" version of WoW. While there are some super tryhards, most of us are 30-40+ and have quite busy lives. Whether we have kids or not, being called "boomer" or "dad gamer" or even "casual" make most of us say "yeah, true" rather than getting upset. Where am I getting at? I'm getting at that many of us do NOT appriciate difficulty, and what we love of Classic is a nostalgic trip back in time, chill easy raids, and laughs with friends. If we wanted challenge, we'd play Retail.

The proof is out there. Classic since 2019 has been GREAT with a few exceptions, or rather 2 moments of total despair, Tier 5 pre-nerf and SWP. There is no coincidence tons and tons of guilds fell appart at those moments and that tens of thousands, maybe hundred of thousands of players quit. T5 and especially SWP was freaking awful and ruined so much of what we love with the idea of Classic.

For many, maybe even most of us "dad gamers", guildraiding is simply not an option, and hasn't been needed outside of pre-nerf T5 and SWP. Our lives are simply too busy. And that is fine. This is the version of the game that you should be able to Pug all the way. Do not say this game is made for guilds, cause it's simply not true. "Join a guild" is not an option and not relevant in this discussion. Anyway, SWP is completely unpugable. The only succesful pugs I've seen on Firemaw EU (the biggest server in Europe) are semi guild runs (which aren't really pugs) and GDKP runs. Doing like "hm, I got some spare time, lets run SWP, ok going trade chat LFM SWP Need..." days didn't exist now, and with the buffs to Naxxramas, they will still be non existent.

This is terrible. I hyped WotLK so much, for many, many months. Since I killed Illidan in January with a pug, I have hyped this, cause I knew the game soon (with SWP release) would be unplayable and I looked forward to easier content. Now, there is no hype. I am not sure I will do ANY boss in WotLK, and since I love raiding, should I even play it? Now, if you think "your loss", do you really think it's just our loss, when you start seeing thousands and thousands of people quit?

Look, T5 and SWP almost KILLED Classic TBC since it killed pugging. And worse yet, it's part of the continued growth of the cancer that is GDKP. People complain and rage over Diablo Immortal, but TBC is even more P2W with this plague that is GDKP. Cause lets face it, the ONLY way to experience SWP right now is to join a GDKP, and you can't get in those unless you are rich, hence making the game completely P2W.

What do you think is gonna happen with buffed Naxx. Soft Reset pugs will DIE. Pugging will DIE. Guild raiding is not an option for so many, many, many of us, our only 2 options will be to quit, or to basically buy gold and join GDKP runs of Naxx, making it further P2W. Does ANYONE think this is healthy for the game?

There are no winners with buffed Naxxramas. NO ONE wins with this. Buffed Naxx will be too hard for us dad gamers, but still give ZERO prestige for guilds, as it's STILL MUCH EASIER than anything retail offer, so who actually wants it buffed? Buffed Naxxramas will lead to so many thousands of people quitting, and those who stay will plague the game by making the dispicable thing that is GDKP even bigger. If you think GDKP is bad now, it's gonna get ten times worse in WotLK.

What are your thoughts? Do you think Blizz will nerf it after a while? Maybe even pre-launch? Do you think this can lead to the end of WoW Classic? I already predicted ICC will kill the game, and that Cataclysm will never happen, because those 2 are far too hard for what most people want. But that's far ahead, could this game be doomed even before we get it?

I wonder how the OP feels knowing they were wrong about literally everything they said. lol