Scale Up with the New Dracthyr Evoker

[Zalraki]

Your personal freedom stops at the point where it infringes on the personal freedom of others. Discrimination, harassment, hate speech, these things have no place in a civil society, and those who voluntarily engage in those behaviors should be ostracized from it.

Hahahaha, wow the virtue signaling is strong in this one.

Why stop at ostracizing? Why not tie their hands behind their back, put a blindfold on and shoot them based on your bubble idea of what should be allowed in society.

Now that's my idea of a civil society, where you can be anyone! (except a white male with an opinion that goes against a small militant social media group)

[Relapses]

Here's the difference in way that even you should be able to understand:

Random person: I hate gays/trans!
LGBTQ community: You bigot!
This one is valid.

Random person: I don't want to get involved in this discussion.
LGBTQ community: You bigot!
Hate speech from the community.

Random person: I don't want to watch this tv show because it's pushing an agenda instead of being good.
LGBTQ community: You bigot!
Hate speech from the community with a minor valid point.

Random person: I want the option to play as a tough looking male in game.
LGBTQ community: You bigot!
Hate speech from the community.

Random person with a science degree: Research shows that gender swapping is bad for a child's development.
LGBTQ community: You bigot!
Hate speech from the community.

See the pattern here and who is actually causing more hate?

None of the examples you provided after the first one are valid since the only people I'm even addressing are the ones stating something similar to your first example.

For the record, I'm not LGBTQ+ and if you go far enough back in my post history I used to be extremely anti-woke. I bought into all the far-right fasc-adjacent propaganda and felt like I was representing what I thought to be "common sense." I've since reassessed my personal beliefs and politics and found a lot of prejudices I hadn't even realized I had. If I can help others come to terms and walk away from this extremely flawed ideology then I feel like I'm doing whatever small part I can to make this world a better place for everybody.

[mbit2]

Except those don’t apply in the context of this conversation. We aren’t discussing whether or not I’m threatening to expose someone for hate speech in a private conversation I had with them with no witnesses around or written proof. The topic was people not being bigoted and using hate speech in general, and your stance on it seems to be that it’s okay, because otherwise not being a terrible person means that you’re being subjugated by others.

You’re taking the stance that people should be allowed to say whatever horrible thing they want and people should accept it, otherwise they would be subjugated to a lie. Meanwhile, you overlook the fact that you want the people on the other side to be subjugated to the whims of people who hate them by not saying anything and just allowing people to be mean and hurtful. It’s a bit hypocritical.

I dont know which heresy laws you address that are limited to private homes. Heresy laws forbade spreading believes going against church doctrine including preaching in public spaces. That's what hate speech laws got extended into - authority defines what can't be criticized claiming its hate speech. Wildest example i've seen so far was reddit deleting posts from detransitioning people warning about their bad experience accusing them of hate speech. So bad product reviews were now considered hate speech. As for limiting bad things people say its the wrong metric. The question should be where does it lead to? Giving honest advice even if hurtful is better than comfortable lies that lead to worse outcomes.

None of the examples you provided after the first one are valid since the only people I'm even addressing are the ones stating something similar to your first example.

I that case i would bet most people misunderstood you. Could have agreed with you already in initial post that flaming people like example 1 is wrong.

[Lionwoman]

But yeah, Evokers make no sence because it's not in the trailers. Are you one of those people who complain about lore, but never read a single piece of quest text?

Username checks out. Geez, you can say nothing with a bit of irony/joke on it these days.

Female panda’s have hair high lights fluffy tails and do anime dances, male pandas are fat drunks.

they aren’t close to Worgen or Tauren design wise.

From a sexual dimorphism point of view, they do. Specially with the worgen. Both genders look like they could be two different species.

[St0lid]

None of the examples you provided after the first one are valid since the only people I'm even addressing are the ones stating something similar to your first example.

For the record, I'm not LGBTQ+ and if you go far enough back in my post history I used to be extremely anti-woke. I bought into all the far-right fasc-adjacent propaganda and felt like I was representing what I thought to be "common sense." I've since reassessed my personal beliefs and politics and found a lot of prejudices I hadn't even realized I had. If I can help others come to terms and walk away from this extremely flawed ideology then I feel like I'm doing whatever small part I can to make this world a better place for everybody.

I don’t equate being anti-woke with an association to the far-right. I think that this happens naturally over time as an agenda (however you want to define it) takes precedence over the quality of whatever is being delivered. As an example, I don’t think anyone thought the Expanse was woke but people complained about the Obi-Wan TV show because the writing was remarkably bad. The frustration was further compounded by the argument that it was due to race and not poor writing. It feels like there is a correlation between people who are “woke” and an inability to deliver quality.

A second issue with this is a dissonance between people who don’t actively participate in the “woke” culture being insulted/assaulted for having a differing opinion. These accusations instead of bringing new people into the fold of your ideology, on the contrary push them away. It is even worse because people who are “woke”, DO in fact support excellent ideology based on equality, but with horrendously atrocious delivery. Also often with an ounce of hypocrisy (the most racist people I have met were always woke, constantly labelling people by some surface-level metric instead of seeing people as their own entities and individuals). A bit how like religious people advocate for the fair treatment of human kind but the delivery can be so poor that it drives people away, especially how many religious people might not abide by the rules they so strongly propose.

One of the comments said they did not want to play a Dracthyr because they thought they looked gay. It is simply a description of how they look, they might not like a character because they can only dress in blue. But they were subsequently insulted repeatedly for only having an opinion that differs from their own. In some games you can only play a specific class with one gender, like Lost Ark, that might also be off putting as people want to be able to better relate to their character. It isn’t sexist or bigoted because it is not viewing the preference in a negative light for others who might better enjoy it.

I think WOW follows a trajectory where they wish they had a different player base where the taste of the developers reflected those of the players. There’s been a clear shift in the art direction of WOW since for ex. Metzen has left, and they may no longer capture the audience that they once had. Hopefully for them they can bring in new players who better reflect who they are targeting (i.e. less casual players, who also appreciate the new art-style etc).

I personally won’t be buying the expansion, as I don’t think I am part of their target audience anymore. That’s okay. But for a game that I once enjoyed so much, it is difficult letting go, which might be the case for others commenting here who don’t appreciate the direction WOW is going either. At least there is classic.

[chrisisvacant]

I dont know which heresy laws you address that are limited to private homes. Heresy laws forbade spreading believes going against church doctrine including preaching in public spaces. That's what hate speech laws got extended into - authority defines what can't be criticized claiming its hate speech. Wildest example i've seen so far was reddit deleting posts from detransitioning people warning about their bad experience accusing them of hate speech. So bad product reviews were now considered hate speech. As for limiting bad things people say its the wrong metric. The question should be where does it lead to? Giving honest advice even if hurtful is better than comfortable lies that lead to worse outcomes.



I that case i would bet most people misunderstood you. Could have agreed with you already in initial post that flaming people like example 1 is wrong.

Yeah no. In actuality, example #1 is pretty clear and is also a frequent event here on these trash forums where bigotry is allowed to run loose. The mods here don't care about the bigotry and racism - it's a so-tragic-you-have-to-laugh scenario where this site exemplifies and propagates the worst qualities of the gaming community and the mods largely have the attitude of "so the fuck what."

I'm sorry, but all this dog whistle shit and fallacious picking apart of the issue is repulsive. You are either flatly able to distinguish bigoted speech or you aren't. And "that looks too gay" is fucking bigoted speech. It doesn't MATTER that it doesn't apply to you and you don't give a shit.

[mbit2]

Yeah no. In actuality, example #1 is pretty clear and is also a frequent event here on these trash forums where bigotry is allowed to run loose. The mods here don't care about the bigotry and racism - it's a so-tragic-you-have-to-laugh scenario where this site exemplifies and propagates the worst qualities of the gaming community and the mods largely have the attitude of "so the fuck what."

I'm sorry, but all this dog whistle shit and fallacious picking apart of the issue is repulsive. You are either flatly able to distinguish bigoted speech or you aren't. And "that looks too gay" is fucking bigoted speech. It doesn't MATTER that it doesn't apply to you and you don't give a shit.

You just bored witch hunting lacking better things to do. Thats why you look for issues instead of trying to understand what they mean. Pretty obvious "looks gay" is layman for dont want to look like a bottom twink which has fuck all to do with hating gay people or will you call bears hating on the twink look bigoted too? You can say i dont care about your opinion but so will others then say to you in kind.

[chrisisvacant]

You just bored witch hunting lacking better things to do. Thats why you look for issues instead of trying to understand what they mean. Pretty obvious "looks gay" is layman for dont want to look like a bottom twink which has fuck all to do with hating gay people or will you call bears hating on the twink look bigoted too? You can say i dont care about your opinion but so will others then say to you in kind.

Do you know what the fuck a bottom twink is? It's a gay man. Nobody cares what you want to look like - if you don't want to look how Blizzard presents the race, don't play it. And if your reasoning has some smooth brained logic to it like "this LIZARD WIZARD looks too much like an effeminate gay man" (MAKE IT MAKE SENSE) then maybe you should go outside more.

[mbit2]

Do you know what the fuck a bottom twink is? It's a gay man. Nobody cares what you want to look like - if you don't want to look how Blizzard presents the race, don't play it. And if your reasoning has some smooth brained logic to it like "this LIZARD WIZARD looks too much like an effeminate gay man" (MAKE IT MAKE SENSE) then maybe you should go outside more.

I explicitly wrote about twink vs bear look preference and you go again hating twink look? oh you be hating gays... unable to escape the obsession of getting offended to focus on whats actually said? And obviously you have to play spyro the dragon if you want to play the new evoker class. You just glued a bunch of memes together and spend zero thought actually addressing the topic.

[chrisisvacant]

I explicitly wrote about twink vs bear look preference and you go again hating twink look? oh you be hating gays... unable to escape the obsession of getting offended to focus on whats actually said? And obviously you have to play spyro the dragon if you want to play the new evoker class. You just glued a bunch of memes together and spend zero thought actually addressing the topic.

Your fragile heterosexuality/"manhood" is what is at stake here - not LGBT folks, not the game or it's creators, not even Spyro the dragon. It's good the bigots have somewhere to go so we at least know they collect here and scream at gay clouds.

[loras]

So i was curious whether it was just forum echo chamber stuff that was adamant about them being gay/off/"famelic" versus the "It's fine, leave Blitney alone!!!!", so i figured to just ask around at random times in games; battlegrounds, trade chat, general chat, near ZM while capturing horde for 25 kills.

Now what i found surprised me because i have trained myself to doubt everything, including/especially my own judgements (due to physical health reasons), so i expected maybe 50/50 split opinions on the drac'thyr.

The opposite was true though, i found not even a single fan of them, in fact it was a lot more vitriolic than what i see here and honestly that caught me off-guard.
Admittedly people influence one another, so others may be less likely to disagree once a tendency has been set by a discussing group, but that still leaves anti drac'thyr-looks as a rather obviously more broadly held opinion.

I don't think it will matter much since it's just looks and that can always be fixed via various means, but still it's... curious to say the least.

[St0lid]

Dracthyr are the primary reason this will be the first expansion I don't purchase.

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Your fragile heterosexuality/"manhood" is what is at stake here - not LGBT folks, not the game or it's creators, not even Spyro the dragon. It's good the bigots have somewhere to go so we at least know they collect here and scream at gay clouds.

Can I ask though, why do you and others in this thread keep using the word fragile? If biology has shown us anything it is that heterosexuality is anything but fragile.

If you have a preference, but don’t look down on others for having a different one, is that bigotry? The definition says it isn’t. It feels as if you want to manipulate definitions to fit your own perspective. You can’t build a convincing argument on a false narrative.

[Linkedblade]

Your personal freedom stops at the point where it infringes on the personal freedom of others. Discrimination, harassment, hate speech, these things have no place in a civil society, and those who voluntarily engage in those behaviors should be ostracized from it.

Depends on the society. The US doesn't have nearly as many or as strong of hate speech laws as other nations. It really depends on the state. We have hate crime laws nationwide, though. Words aren't harmful, and things like libel and slander have high bars, on purpose.

Discrimination is only if you as a business or government institution those service based on sex/race. And again it has a high burden of proof.

Harassment can be speech, like sexual harassment, but again high bar.

[Mysterymask]

I'm absolutely flabbergasted this has been allowed to go on this long and not a single mod has even looked at this.....

[Vandren]

I'm absolutely flabbergasted this has been allowed to go on this long and not a single mod has even looked at this.....

You must be new here.

[chrisisvacant]

I'm absolutely flabbergasted this has been allowed to go on this long and not a single mod has even looked at this.....

They look. They don't give a fuck.

[St0lid]

I'm absolutely flabbergasted this has been allowed to go on this long and not a single mod has even looked at this.....

I don't know how mods will force people to like the Dracthyr.

[Zodiark]

The lizard's head is too small. Looks like it has the smallest brain of all the playable races.

- - - Updated - - -



No one did that. Only ones complaining about that are Twitter SJWs, who don't even play video games, they just complain about the principle of it. Same way as they praise woke comic books but don't actually buy the said comic books. Because they don't support the product itself, they just support ideas and ideals. And then the company is baffled why sales are so low after it trusted the word of Twitter blabbers.

Here, here! You speak truth my friend! So many people on Twitter and social media who love to complain and espouse their ideals about how thing "Sould be". but then they don't actually watch the shows/movies, or read the books/comics, that they are chastising. I've always said that when you give everyone a voice and allow them to all speak at once then all you have is noise.

Meanwhile these ideas get legs because big corporations who realize that their markets are pretty much tapped at this point, start catering to these people by giving into their demands because shareholders want to see sales growth at any cost. They figure the normies aren't going anywhere so they will continue to get their dollars as well as those of the marginalized demographics who are screaming at them about justice and equality. When in reality they are basically looking for a license to just do whatever they want with no repercussions.

Don't want to work, there is a group for that. Don't want to stay fit or get in shape, there is a group for that. Don't want to commit to someone of the opposite sex, there is a group for that. Mad that easy, good paying, jobs don't have enough women in power, there is a group for that. (Yet you'll never see a group lobbying for more women in Constuction or landscaping , or garbage collector jobs). lol