IT'S TIME FOR A DEATH BATTLE! The Lich King Vs Sauron

[Makabreska]

Regardless of the outcome, fight was pretty dope.

[Thirtyrock]

If you're trying to get into actual lore, I don't see how Arthas could hold a candle against Sauron. Arthas is more like one of the Ring Wraiths in lore, whereas Sauron is a literal fallen angel. A better comparison would be Sauron vs the Jailer.

[The Stormbringer]

If you're trying to get into actual lore, I don't see how Arthas could hold a candle against Sauron. Arthas is more like one of the Ring Wraiths in lore, whereas Sauron is a literal fallen angel. A better comparison would be Sauron vs the Jailer.

Even the strongest Ringwraith can't compare to the Lich King. The strongest Ringwraith (the Witch-King), a powerful warrior and sorcerer, got taken out by a Hobbit with a special sword and a human with a normal sword. The Lich King, meanwhile, fought 10-25 hardened, dangerous veterans, crushed them all, and then got taken down by a top tier paladin and his perfect counter sword. Claiming that LK is on the same level as a Ringwraith is just insulting.

[TbouncerT]

LK would win. Sauron got beaten first by a human by getting his fingers cut off. Then a second and final time by a hobit(s) that drops thee ring in lava.

[Lollis]

Sargeras > Morgoth > Kiljaeden => Sauron > The Lich King > Ringwraiths > Kelthuzad

At full power, Sauron can transform, create illusions, and invade and corrupt the mind. It's not close.

Sauron lost to the armies of Gil-galad and Elendil because he was too confident and his pride betrayed him. In the Lord of the Rings he's severely weakened and still controls thousands practically through his sheer force of will alone.

[Thirtyrock]

Even the strongest Ringwraith can't compare to the Lich King. The strongest Ringwraith (the Witch-King), a powerful warrior and sorcerer, got taken out by a Hobbit with a special sword and a human with a normal sword. The Lich King, meanwhile, fought 10-25 hardened, dangerous veterans, crushed them all, and then got taken down by a top tier paladin and his perfect counter sword. Claiming that LK is on the same level as a Ringwraith is just insulting.

I'm OK insulting him The Witch-King was killed by a prophetic combination of events. It was predestined in a way that doesn't really exist in the WoW universe, that I'm aware of.

The Witch King was able to kill dozens or hundreds of warriors, prior to his death, including elves, men, dwarves, etc (not all in the events of the main trilogy, but some in the past). Arthas couldn't kill him because Arthas doesn't fit the prophecy. Without the prophecy, hard to say, imo.

[Berkilak]

Sargeras > Morgoth > Kiljaeden => Sauron > The Lich King > Ringwraiths > Kelthuzad

At full power, Sauron can transform, create illusions, and invade and corrupt the mind. It's not close.

Sauron lost to the armies of Gil-galad and Elendil because he was too confident and his pride betrayed him. In the Lord of the Rings he's severely weakened and still controls thousands practically through his sheer force of will alone.

I would toss Morgoth ahead of Sargeras, by a smidge. Morgoth was involved with the actual creation of the universe, and began to take control of that entire process. Sargeras merely ordered what already existed as a Titan, then went to destroying that creation thereafter. But neither were so powerful that they couldn't be wounded by a mortal in specific circumstances.

And pride being Sauron's downfall is a distinction that people tend to miss. Isildur, nor Frodo, nor anyone else were more powerful than he was. They simply (and unwittingly) exploited his personality flaws to take him down.

[AcidicSyn]

Sauron with the One Ring vs Lich king isn't even fair. It would be fairer to pit their armies against each other. The Scourge would have a much better time against the armies of Mordor, but a direct fight between Lich King Arthas and Sauron? No contest. Sauron vs Sargeras is more on par.

Gandalf (the White) vs Lich King would be more evenly matched in 1v1 and I still might bet on Gandalf and yes that's even taking Gandalf vs Witch King into account.


EDIT: Thinking on it more, Sargeras is probably more in line with Morgoth, not Sauron.
EDIT 2: Thinking on it even more, arguing that Sauron would beat Lich King Arthas without issue would mean I would also have to accept that Elendil and Gilgalad could beat Lich King Arthas, and I am not so sure they could.

[Leyre]

Sauron with the One Ring vs Lich king isn't even fair. It would be fairer to pit their armies against each other. The Scourge would have a much better time against the armies of Mordor, but a direct fight between Lich King Arthas and Sauron? No contest. Sauron vs Sargeras is more on par.

Gandalf (the White) vs Lich King would be more evenly matched in 1v1 and I still might bet on Gandalf and yes that's even taking Gandalf vs Witch King into account.

We talking about Sauron, the guy that lost because he lost a finger? that Sauron?

[AcidicSyn]

We talking about Sauron, the guy that lost because he lost a finger? that Sauron?

Sauron does not lose that way in the books. Book sauron with the one ring is who I thought we were talking about.

[Leyre]

Sauron does not lose that way in the books. Book sauron with the one ring is who I thought we were talking about.

“But at the last the siege was so strait that Sauron himself came forth; and he wrestled with Gil-galad and Elendil, and they both were slain, and the sword of Elendil broke under him as he fell. But Sauron also was thrown down, and with the hilt-shard of Narsil Isildur cut the Ruling Ring from the hand of Sauron and took it for his own.”

How is that not "lost because he got his finger cut?"

[Rustedsaint]

Spoiler, someone paid for this episode to hype up a certain show that’s now airing

[AcidicSyn]

“But at the last the siege was so strait that Sauron himself came forth; and he wrestled with Gil-galad and Elendil, and they both were slain, and the sword of Elendil broke under him as he fell. But Sauron also was thrown down, and with the hilt-shard of Narsil Isildur cut the Ruling Ring from the hand of Sauron and took it for his own.”

How is that not "lost because he got his finger cut?"

Thats being beaten and then having his finger cut off. Not being beaten because he had his finger cut off. He'd already lost.

(Though being beaten by Gilgalad and Elendil while wielding the one ring and losing might actually make him sound weaker than him being beaten by way of ring removal, so I might have to rethink my stance anyway, as I am not prepared to support the idea that Gilgalad and Elendil could also 2v1 Lich King Arthas)

[Leyre]

Thats being beaten and then having his finger cut off. Not being beaten because he had his finger cut off. He'd already lost.

(Though being beaten by Gilgalad and Elendil while wielding the one ring and losing might actually make him sound weaker than him being beaten by way of ring removal, so I might have to rethink my stance anyway, as I am not prepared to support the idea that Gilgalad and Elendil could also 2v1 Lich King Arthas)

Thats the thing, it makes no sense that Sauron can beat the LK when he lost a 2 vs 1 against "normal" folks while it took 10 of the most powerfull mortal beings plus a miracle of the gods to beat the LK (and if anyone thinks that Isildur was as strong as a max level WotLK char you are a silly goose)

[Mysterymask]

Thats the thing, it makes no sense that Sauron can beat the LK when he lost a 2 vs 1 against "normal" folks while it took 10 of the most powerfull mortal beings plus a miracle of the gods to beat the LK (and if anyone thinks that Isildur was as strong as a max level WotLK char you are a silly goose)

I mean TECHNICALLY he wasn't beaten. This was a minor set back the fact you cannot beat him by physical means does already put him miles above the lich king

[Sammonoske]

I guess we are just omitting the part where The Lich King would just absorb any soul thrown at him with Frostmourne. Sauron shedding his physical body just leaves him open to being consumed.

[Mysterymask]

I guess we are just omitting the part where The Lich King would just absorb any soul thrown at him with Frostmourne. Sauron shedding his physical body just leaves him open to being consumed.

...does Sauron outside his mortal body count as a soul? I mean death battle has it's fair share of inaccuracies and fan bias (cough Green Lantern vs Ben10) but from my understanding Saurons eye isn't his "soul" per say

[Hitei]

Sauron with the One Ring vs Lich king isn't even fair. It would be fairer to pit their armies against each other. The Scourge would have a much better time against the armies of Mordor, but a direct fight between Lich King Arthas and Sauron? No contest. Sauron vs Sargeras is more on par.

Gandalf (the White) vs Lich King would be more evenly matched in 1v1 and I still might bet on Gandalf and yes that's even taking Gandalf vs Witch King into account.


EDIT: Thinking on it more, Sargeras is probably more in line with Morgoth, not Sauron.
EDIT 2: Thinking on it even more, arguing that Sauron would beat Lich King Arthas without issue would mean I would also have to accept that Elendil and Gilgalad could beat Lich King Arthas, and I am not so sure they could.

The Lich King is small beans in warcraft because the magic and combat in Warcraft's setting is on an entirely different level. I think you are vastly overselling Sauron, Gandalf and the Witch King here. Even as Gandalf (the White) his powers are really basic magic like being able to do room-sized blasts of force, rays of scorching light, or darkness spells and then being a well trained and proficient melee combatant. They are overpowering abilities to the regular human fighters, or a Tolkien orc (which is basically just a more resilient and stronger normal real life human), they are sort of nothing in the context of Warcraft--a regular Kirin Tor mage can do all of those things, and also summon blizzards, throw fire, teleport people across continents, freeze people solid, throw shards of ice, etc. etc.

The same is true of Sauron. He beat but was severely weakened by fighting Elendil and Gil-galad, two people who, even with the rings taken into account, are probably weaker than more notable warcraft named NPC fighters like Nazgrim, or Taylor, let alone people like pre-corruption Garrosh, Saurfang or Varian. Sauron basically barely scraped through regular combat against two people.

I don't really see how he'd win against someone who can casually create ice storms, send out waves of disease and plague that can kill people in a matter of seconds, throw out blasts and bolts of shadow energy or summon pools of deadly shadow magic, call forth dozens of attacking spritis with the flick of a wrist, etc. Who is, on top of that, probably also significantly stronger and more resilient to damage.

Honestly Sauron would probably struggle against most high end NPCs, like Tyrande, non-Jailer Syvlanas or Thrall. We won't even talk about higher-tier characters like Jaina, who would probably absolutely shred him.

The base power scaling of the two universes are just too different on a fundamental level. Sargeras is not "in line" with Morgoth, Morgoth was, per the wiki, able to summon massive storms of fire, create huge craters, and destroy mountain ranges or fuck up oceans. Sargeras cut an entire planet in half with a sword swing.

[Jastall]

The powerscale of the two universes are completely out of whack. A random Warlock or Druid in WoW is as powerful as Saruman, and a named spellcaster is at least Gandalf level if not stronger; Gandalf can't do half the crazy stuff casters like Jaina or Gul'dan pull off, or least not in his mortal form. Sauron is also not a beastly frontline fighter, he rose to power because he's a superb craftsman and a cunning manipulator who tricked the Free Peoples into serving and empowering him. Whenever he actually fights in the First and Second Age he gets his ass kicked even by people who are far less powerful than the average WoW characters who start at being superhumans capable of soloing dragons and only get more OP from there. Lich King Arthas obviously bodies Sauron without issue, the actual problem is likely that Arthas in his hubris then takes the Ring for himself and I'm not certain even his Frostmourne-dominated soul could resist its corruption. The Ring is all the more effective on your the more power-hungry you are and Arthas certainly fits that definition and then some.

The only beings that would be considered really powerful in WoW are the Valar, Morgoth and likely things like Ungoliant. Morgoth was about Archimonde or KJ level of powerful I think (even then an angry Elf gave him a tough fight), Ungoliant is more or less an Old God, and the Valar as a collective are the biggest and baddest thing in the universe after the actual God, their intervention literally shattered parts of the world because they're so powerful. It's why they don't intervene in the first place.

[Arkthugal]

I guess we are just omitting the part where The Lich King would just absorb any soul thrown at him with Frostmourne. Sauron shedding his physical body just leaves him open to being consumed.

Mind, the Lich King fights shows it's possible to escape Frostmourne. We needed help from Terenas, but I think Sauron would be strong enough to escape on his own.

That said, this "keep fighting as a soul" thing strikes me as inaccurate? Because if he could do that he'd have done it against Elendil and Gil-galad, which would have prevented Isildur from taking the Ring off his body.