Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Triceron]

Stupid and dishonest are two different things. You can't do much about the former, so that's more easily forgivable. As for the latter, it suggests that you're not a nice person to talk with.

Well, it's easy to find the Boys' season 1 Amazon statements post-finale release, considering they launched the entire full season in one go.

https://theplaylist.net/amazon-boys-...ings-20190809/

Recently, the Head of Amazon Studios, Jennifer Salke, revealed that “The Boys” is greatly surpassing expectations and the company couldn’t be happier.

“We are thrilled that ‘The Boys’ has surpassed our predictions for viewing in its first two weeks, and has become one of our most-watched Amazon Original series by our Prime Video customers,” she revealed

And that's from a simple google search. So no, its not about whether it's easy to find or not, whether I'm trying to be dishonest or not. It's about the principle of why I wouldn't bother.

I know that if I honor his request, it becomes fuel for him to take the discussion tangentially. Now there are angles to twist more information on the table to fit arguments that were never made. Oh, this article is 3rd party and should be dismissed. Oh, this release isn't like Rings of Power's full season so you can't compare the Boys to it. Oh, this was only one statement made so it's not an indication that Amazon regularly does this, so you shouldn't say they do. You see, there's no point in providing the source because I already know the outcome of the answers, and it's not worth taking the conversation there. If he was also in good faith, then sure, I might honor that request in good faith. He isn't though, that's the difference. I only need to address his claim that Amazon doesn't make post-finale statements about a show's performance by saying they did so for the Boys. The simpler the information, the less there is to take into a needless tangent. If he can't find source for something that is easily google-able, then that really isn't my problem. He's intentionally baiting something to argue. That's how bad faith arguments work. It's not about what facts he can bring to the table, it's what facts you bring that he can dismiss or argue around.

You guys can clue in that Rhorle has a particular way of taking the argument tangentially and like you said, it's probably better not to feed into the arguments if we already know he's baiting for sources and links. I'll say that I took my time to present it to you just for the sake of our discussion, otherwise I wouldn't bother humoring it for him. So yeah, moving forward, if you see me not honoring his requests and not being nice, that's because I'm not being nice to the person who is usually being dishonest in return. If you want to see this as being a blanket characterization of me and how I am not a nice person to talk with in general, then so be it. Thank you for your concern otherwise.

-edit-

So similar to what they have done for Rings of Power. Season 1 of The Boys was released all at once so any comments about anything would happen post finale. We have got the same level of comments about Rings of Power.

You see, he even responded exactly as I expected him to. This is completely tangential to the fact I mentioned this to counter his own claim that Amazon does not make statements about their shows success post release, when this is clearly a valid example of it. He simply brushes it off as 'not on the same level of comments', whatever that means. It's bad faith, I know his answers, and I don't care about 'being honest' for the sake of getting an answer that I know will not progress the discussion at all.

The entire argument he's presenting is in bad faith. That you expect me to be arguing in good faith would be in ignorance of who I'm actually talking to. And that you consider Rhorle with such leniency tells me either you haven't had any experience with actually discussing something against him and providing sources to counter his claims, or that you're willingly being ignorant to them considering how these conversations have flooded the entire thread for this long I find it hard to imagine this is the first time you're seeing this.

[rhorle]

“We are thrilled that ‘The Boys’ has surpassed our predictions for viewing in its first two weeks, and has become one of our most-watched Amazon Original series by our Prime Video customers,” she revealed

So similar to what they have done for Rings of Power. Season 1 of The Boys was released all at once so any comments about anything would happen post finale. We have got the same level of comments about Rings of Power.

- - - Updated - - -

You see, he even responded exactly as I expected him to. This is completely tangential to the fact I mentioned this to counter his own claim that Amazon does not make statements about their shows success, when this is clearly a valid example of it.

Context is important. So while they did make a response after the shows finale episode was released it was impossible not to. The same statements they made about The Boys season 1 have been made about Rings of Power. A 1 day season versus a 7 week season. How does this make the Rings of Power "silence" deafening? They've already talked about the same stuff.

[Triceron]

Context is important. So while they did make a response after the shows finale episode was released it was impossible not to. The same statements they made about The Boys season 1 have been made about Rings of Power. A 1 day season versus a 7 week season. How does this make the Rings of Power "silence" deafening? They've already talked about the same stuff.

You're right, context is important.

So let me remind you - this was a response to you having said Amazon doesn't make statements about their shows performance after full release. It has nothing to do with being a comparable situation to Rings of Power's release. I'm not comparing this specific instance to Rings of Power at all. You're intentionally taking this out of context as a means to dismiss it entirely. I'm using this information to reinforce the fact that Amazon DID make a statement about a series' performance after it was fully released, whereas they HAVE NOT done so for Rings of Power now. It can't be compared to Rings of Power because they never made a statement at all about the series' full performance. It is not meant to be compared, it is meant to address a specific statement you made about them not doing so in the past.

That is the context, which you've blatantly chosen to ignore.

[rhorle]

So let me remind you - this was a response to you having said Amazon doesn't make statements about their shows performance after full release. It has nothing to do with being a comparable situation to Rings of Power's release now, because the context isn't about comparing the two. The context is addressing you having said Amazon doesn't make statements addressing their show's performance.

Right. I was wrong. That still doesn't change that there is no silence about Rings of Power. Because they made similar comments over the 7 weeks of the show was airing. For example we know that 100 million subscribers have watched Rings of Power at the end of September or early October from an interview given. A lot of the things you want them to have done post-finale they did during the 7 week run.

So how does that mean Amazon doesn't like the show performance? The article I took the 100 million statistic from goes into a lot of depth about the show and their thoughts. https://variety.com/2022/tv/news/jen...gm-1235392108/

[Triceron]

Right. I was wrong. That still doesn't change that there is no silence about Rings of Power. Because they made similar comments over the 7 weeks of the show was airing. For example we know that 100 million subscribers have watched Rings of Power at the end of September or early October from an interview given. A lot of the things you want them to have done post-finale they did during the 7 week run.

So how does that mean Amazon doesn't like the show performance? The article I took the 100 million statistic from goes into a lot of depth about the show and their thoughts. https://variety.com/2022/tv/news/jen...gm-1235392108/

Which has nothing to do with what I said, does it?

If you say context is important, then why do you continually try and provide sources that have nothing to do with the fact that the context of my original reply is regarding Amazon statements about Rings of Power's performance post-finale? You're still linking articles released well before the finale and talking about things that were said while the show was still being released. We already agree that Amazon did not make any statements about the show after its full release, so posting these pre-finale articles aren't going to address anything I said.

Did I say they were silent while still releasing the series? No, I didn't. I said they had been silent on its performance after the series finished. . Why are you intentionally taking my argument out of context? I can tell you why. Because you never had anything to argue in the first place and just saw something I said and chose to argue it without considering any of the context. The very thing that you're touting as being important.

[rhorle]

If you say context is important, then why do you continually try and provide sources that have nothing to do with the fact that the context of my original reply is regarding Amazon statements about Rings of Power's performance post-finale?

Because they've made comments about its performance prior to the finale? Why does it matter if it is pre or post when it is the same type of commentary you want? Why do they need to repeat things post finale just to prove the show is a success? Again why does a show have to brag after its last episode in order for it to be seen as good by the studio/producers?

[Triceron]

Because they've made comments about its performance prior to the finale? Why does it matter if it is pre or post when it is the same type of commentary you want?

Because it's not what I said. In fact, it has nothing to do with what I said at all.

I said they have been silent about its performance after the series finished, so I don't know why you're coming at me saying they said stuff prior to it. It has nothing to do with what I said. You understand this right?

You created a fictional argument and are actively arguing it. You even twisted my comments to say 'that still doesn't change that there is no silence about Rings of Power.'. Sure, I can agree with that completely because they weren't silent at all during the release of the series, especially at the first few weeks of release when their numbers were high. Let's not pretend that my comments were ever arguing against that.

Again why does a show have to brag after its last episode in order for it to be seen as good by the studio/producers?

Again, you'll have to ask someone else considering this is not relevant to anything I've said at all, lol. I'm honestly unsure where you're pulling this from.

[rogoth]

Most of the noise comes from YouTube drama fans who think "treated like shit" is an accurate way of describing an adaptation, probably not that many actual Tolkien fans.

you very clearly haven't read any of the reviews for this complete dumpster fire of a project, in places where amazon can't directly censor reviews the hundreds of thousands of die hard Tolkien fans who have given a review have been scathing, and i myself as a die hard fan of the entire works of Tolkien found this disaster waiting to happen, which was later proven to be such a farce it made some of the previously shit on woke fiascos look like works of pristine art by comparison, that's how badly this show has been handled, a total and utter irredeemable trainwreck, so bad did i find it i genuinely thought of adding to a local petition to have it made into a textbook as an example of abject failure in media and a prime example of what not to do when adapting great literary works for television and film.

[rhorle]

Again, you'll have to ask someone else considering this is not relevant to anything I've said at all, lol.

The silence that I'm referring to is contextually specific to the performance of the show and anything to dispel the rumors.

So talking about the performance of the show is not relevant? Why does a show only have to talk about performance post-finale in order for the show to be "successful"? Why do they need to address any and every rumor to be successful? We already have one case of post-finale talking about the show that you dismissed because it was recorded, instead of live, because of a positive covid-19 test. We have examples pre-finale performance. What magically changes about those statements post-finale? Are you claiming they lied?

[Triceron]

So talking about the performance of the show is not relevant? Why does a show only have to talk about performance post-finale in order for the show to be "successful"? Why do they need to address any and every rumor to be successful? We already have one case of post-finale talking about the show that you dismissed because it was recorded, instead of live, because of a positive covid-19 test. We have examples pre-finale performance. What magically changes about those statements post-finale? Are you claiming they lied?

You're implying all sorts of loaded questions, I'm not quite sure what angle you're pushing here. There's nothing to argue here. These have nothing to do with anything I've said.


My original comment talked about them being silent after the series finished, and potentially rendering the rumors that Execs are scrambling after the House of the Dragon's success to be true. I'm not sure how you've come around to say I'm claiming they're lying about their previous statements of the series success when these rumors didn't exist at the time of those announcements. Like, why are you being so dishonest here? I thought you said context was important, why are you ignoring it here?

[rhorle]

Considering you're implying all sorts of arguments here that I've not made at all, I'm not quite sure what angle you're pushing here.

So then what did you mean when you said the silence is deafening? You didn't just say they were silent you were remarking that their silence implies a negative about how they view the show or its performance. It wasn't a "pre-recorded" video. It was a live interview, that was recorded, because Mrs.Salke couldn't attend a conference and give her keynote speech because of a Covid-19 diagnoses.

I've asked you to explain and answer things about your own opinion. Why do you see that as an attack?

- - - Updated - - -

My original comment talked about them being silent after the series finished, and potentially rendering the rumors that Execs are scrambling after the House of the Dragon's success to be true. I'm not sure how you've come around to say I'm claiming they're lying about their previous statements of the series success when these rumors didn't exist at the time of those announcements. Like, why are you being so dishonest here? I thought you said context was important, why are you ignoring it here?

If they previously said they were happy with the show and its success then you implying they are now no longer happy and scrambling means they lied, right? How can they be both happy and unhappy about the same subject? Why do they have to brag about the show after its last episode to continue to be happy about its performance? Why is a rumor automatically true just because they haven't talked about the show?

[Triceron]

So then what did you mean when you said the silence is deafening?

It's an affirmation that they have not addressed the performance of the series after it finished, especially in light of the rumors that have popped up after the series finale. Like the ones that were already being talked about in SpaghettiMonk's post which I was regarding.

You know, context. Which you conveniently ignored despite calling out its importance.

It's been fascinating to see how different the fan reaction has been compared to reviewers. Reviewers are almost all positive - fans are negative, particularly actual Tolkien fans. The rotten tomatoes ratings are still 39% and 85%. So I mean, yeah, the rumors have been more reliable than the media. It's been shocking to see this.

If they previously said they were happy with the show and its success then you implying they are now no longer happy and scrambling means they lied, right?

Not if you consider that House of the Dragon was being released near the same time and was still gaining traction well after Amazon's original statement.

It wouldn't 'imply the original statement was a lie'. It would be a reaction to the competition.


And to piggy-back on what Rageonit said earlier, I can't fix stupidity. So yeah, we're circling around with nothing to discuss or argue here. Just you bringing up a bunch of baseless accusations that I somehow need an affirmation from Amazon in order to consider this show a success or some shit like that. Arguments for the sake of arguing. Anything else? Maybe you want to bring up how my use of 'silence is defeaning' fails to make literal sense? You haven't addressed all the Galadriel Hate statements that I never made, either.

[rhorle]

It's an affirmation that they have not addressed the performance of the series after it finished, especially in light of the rumors that have popped up after the series finale. Like the ones that were already being talked about in SpaghettiMonk's post which I was regarding.

The head of the studio addressed it a little bit in her Mipcom interview. Why would they need to repeat the affirmations from before the finale afterwards? Why would they suddenly no longer like how the show has performed? Why do they need to address rumors at all in order for the show to stay "successful"?

It wouldn't 'imply the original statement was a lie'. It would be a reaction to the competition.

Why would House of the Dragon suddenly cause all of their metrics prior to the finale to no longer be in the "success" category? You keep saying they lied about how they viewed the show as favorable pre-finale because they now don't view the show as favorable.

I'm curious if you remember defending the show as popular. Why suddenly would Amazon view the show as a failure?

Measuring engagement that has kept it in the top 10 shows of the season indicates that its a popular show no matter how you cut it.

[Triceron]

The head of the studio addressed it a little bit in her Mipcom interview. Why would they need to repeat the affirmations from before the finale afterwards? Why would they suddenly no longer like how the show has performed? Why do they need to address rumors at all in order for the show to stay "successful"?

They don't. Addressing rumors has nothing to do with staying successful. Again, why are you taking my comments out of context and conflating different statements together?

I'm curious if you remember defending the show as popular. Why suddenly would Amazon view the show as a failure?

I never said the show was a failure. Again, this is an argument you accused me of which I'm denying I ever made. That's why I'm saying your accusations are fucking dishonest.

You understand this, right?


The show can be considered successful and the execs can still be scrambling because the show may not have met their expectations against the competition. If all you're boiling things down to are failure and success, then you're being anal retentive here.

You don't sound like you even know what rumor I'm talking about. Perhaps you should look into correcting that before commenting about the House of the Dragon and Rings of Power metrics. You know, for contexts sake.

[Biomega]

Just think about that - Tolkien and Lord of the Rings, one of the most beloved series anywhere, and they couldn't even be bothered to find actual fans of the show to do the review!

I get your overall point and you probably didn't intend this to come across that way, but DAMN this is just such a misrepresentation of the problem.

It's NOT that they "couldn't be bothered" to find fans - it's that it seems abundantly clear that any "real" fans SIMPLY WOULD NOT ENDORSE THE SHOW. That's a far, far more damning turn of events. Of course they could have found fans, they're not idiots and know how to use YouTube and Google. They DID find fans, and they either were outright told to fuck themselves, or thought that there would be no way the marquee fans would endorse it or, at best, not endorse it the way they wanted.

Instead they turned to milk-toast "influencer" fans with a fantasy portfolio of whatever flavor that they could get to provide suitable fake enthusiasm as PR and advertising vehicles. Note because they "couldn't find" anyone else, but because everyone else WOULDN'T PROVIDE WHAT THEY WANTED.

Remember: they are not interested in reviews. They are interested in advertisement they can LABEL as "reviews". Their goal is not to get the most comprehensive, most in-depth, most balanced and unbiased assessment of their product. FUCK NO. Their goal is to have people with reach and consumer confidence and broad market appeal create positive buzz about their product. Never forget this.

[rhorle]

They don't. Addressing rumors has nothing to do with staying successful. Again, why are you taking my comments out of context and conflating different statements together?

So then the silence, and lack of addressing them, is not deafening. So the show is popular but Amazon is panicking about the performance of the show at the same time? If Amazon thinks the show is successful why would they be scrambling? They would have to view the show as not successful to be scrambling due to a lack of a success.

- - - Updated - - -

It's NOT that they "couldn't be bothered" to find fans - it's that it seems abundantly clear that any "real" fans SIMPLY WOULD NOT ENDORSE THE SHOW.

Wouldn't real fans have hated the Jackson movies because they didn't keep the spirit of Tolkien? Lets not pretend that "real" fans has any meaning other then a gate keeping tool. There are no "real" fans. There are only fans. So like the show for what it is. Some do not. There isn't a separate class because of that.

[Triceron]

So then the silence, and lack of addressing them, is not deafening.

It is deafening to me, and you choosing to believe otherwise doesn't change that.

So the show is popular but Amazon is panicking about the performance of the show at the same time?

Why is this so hard for you to grasp? Honest question.

Do you think that because a battle was won, so has the war? I could (figuratively) say that they took the lead for the first quarter of the race, then House of Dragons ended up taking gold. And Rings of Power maybe took silver or bronze. So yes, they were successful. They succeeded on winning a medal. But it still didn't manage to meet what aimed for, and that has caused the coaches to go into a panic because big daddy Bezos expected a gold medal.

Hell, the rumors about the panic isn't even all that negative. None of the rumors I'm talking about implies that the show is a failure. Again, not sure why you're jumping to this unreasonable conclusion. Gonna repeat - You don't sound like you even know what rumor I'm talking about. Perhaps you should look into correcting that. You know, for contexts sake.

[Biomega]

But with the Peter Jackson movies, I made arrangements to go see them with friends. I watched them with family members, I talked them up at work, and generally having a fan like me like the movies helps them bring in the casual fans.

That used to be the standard go-to strategy for "genre" products (at least in theory): get the "real" fans onboard, and have them push the product to the casuals. Didn't quite work out, apparently; maybe it's the rise of general influencers and their culture, maybe it's platforms like YouTube, maybe it's the negative backlash from never being able to please nitpicky nerds... who knows. But they seem to have shifted towards a "fuck the fans, they'll never be happy anyway, just grab the random popcorn Andy he'll shill over his cash and not ask too many questions" mentality in more areas than just fantasy and science fiction.

Yup, I will keep hate watching it as long as it's on.

I guess this is where we differ. I just stop watching when I'm reasonably sure it sucks. I engage in the meta commentary, partly because it interests me, partly for professional reasons; but I rarely if ever "hate-watch" even things that are big in the public consciousness at the time (excepting things I'm directly working on, which is why I had to torture myself with things like Bright ).

[xChurch]

Crazy how long one person can keep a thread going...

[Shadowferal]

Amazon Bribing People To Watch Lord Of The Rings Series As It Continues To Underperform

It may sound like a bad joke, but Amazon Prime Video is reportedly offering free food to Brazilian viewers if they’ll watch their floundering Lord of the Rings series, The Rings of Power. According to a new video by YouTuber George The Giant Slayer, a visit to the Prime Video Brazil Instagram account reveals an offer for a coupon to iFood, a food delivery service that is Brazil’s version of DoorDash or UberEats. The catch: you have to watch the first episode of The Rings of Power to get it.

George the Giant Slayer shared screenshots from the Amazon Prime Video Brazil Instagram account, promising the iFood coupon will be emailed to Prime subscribers after they watch the first episode of The Rings of Power. While that sounds like great deal, it should be noted that the coupon offers viewers 30 rials, which converts to about $5 in American money. That’s not even enough for a fast food value meal in America, but maybe Brazilian restaurants offer better deals.

Bounding Into Comics detailed how it is just the latest attempt by Amazon to get someone – anyone – to watch the show, which started off with promising ratings after its September 1 premiere. However, according to various tracking services, viewership declined in subsequent weeks. It rebounded for the October 14 season finale, but the bad buzz surrounding the series has loomed over the show like the clouds over Mt. Doom in Mordor.

George the Giant Slayer, in typical YouTuber fashion, has his own hot take on why the series has flopped, as he blames the show’s “woke” mentality. Even for those who embrace that argument, it’s hard to pin the show’s struggles on that factor alone.

Although Lord of the Rings fans took issue with many of the aspects, themes, and characterizations in the show, it had some promising and pretty entertaining elements. Ismael Cruz Cordova’s portrayal of the elf Arondir, who leads the fight against the Orcs, was excellent, but the series as a whole seemed too disjointed, and failed to bring the many parallel storylines and multiple characters together by season’s end. Even the most die-hard Tolkien fans admitted they had trouble following the multitude of characters and deep references to the mythology, so even casual viewers were often lost as to what was going on.

By contrast, HBO’s Game of Thrones prequel series House of the Dragon faced a similar challenge in attracting viewers for a series no one really asked for. While Dragon often stumbled in its first season, with time jumps and character recastings, its focused storyline and entertaining episodes won skeptics over. As a result, House of the Dragon is pulling in far more viewers than The Rings of Power.

It seems the promotion is an effort to keep viewership engaged as the season ends and viewers’ attention is pulled elsewhere. Disney+ is trying a similar tactic with its Star Wars live-action series Andor, by offering the first two episodes on cable TV to attract viewers.

Bounding Into Comics also mentions a rumor that Amazon is considering totally rebooting The Rings of Power, attempting a total do-over in season two that may see an entirely different storyline or even characters. Given the hundreds of millions Amazon has committed here, that rumor is either complete nonsense or a desperation move to save the series, and sadly, both seem plausible at this point.