Page 55 of 65 FirstFirst ...
5
45
53
54
55
56
57
... LastLast
  1. #1081
    Quote Originally Posted by MsSideEye View Post
    Everyone has their own reasons for wanting to try something. Are there people who joined because of Zepla, someone who imitates her, or someone whose become a WoW hater? Of course there is. I'll never say that isn't a possibility or even a likelihood of what's happened.

    But just like how there are all types in our world, people of all shapes, sizes, colors, and creeds, the same thing comes to games, even WoW and FF14. We have to keep in mind, something hard even for me sometimes, that not everyone is going to have the same experience or even the same views about things. The best we can do is try and understand, maybe even participate if we're ok with it, and see the other side of the coin.
    I might be the guy here, who got banned the most times for whiteknighting Blizzard(I only debate product decisions).

    Probably not a good candidate to try out new things. I rather go back to defend WoW(speaking of me calling others wierd).

    But it was a nice conversation. Thanks.

  2. #1082
    Still play WoW, have been 18 years, Mythic raiding, #1 guild on server, mythic +15(20) done ad nauseam...have dealt with the most toxic mf's you can in WoW, will continue to play WoW. Have been playing FF14 story all the way thru, now up to Shadowbringers atm. I can say with 100% certainty FF14 respects a players time WAY more than WoW. More importantly, having played every major MMO on the market I can say FF14 has the best community bar none, its not even close. Also, sorry to say as if this is news to anyone, WoW literally has the worst community, by far. No, nobody hurt my feelings, I have no feelings to hurt. I just speak the truth of my own experiences
    The personal class of FF14 players dwarfs the cellar dwelling, mom pays my sub WoW player base.

  3. #1083
    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    I might be the guy here, who got banned the most times for whiteknighting Blizzard(I only debate product decisions).

    Probably not a good candidate to try out new things. I rather go back to defend WoW(speaking of me calling others wierd).

    But it was a nice conversation. Thanks.
    Hey, to each their own! If you love WoW that much, that's your right! Embrace it! Have fun with it. Trust me when I say there are times where I could go back, but my own values and the fact that I've come to love FF14 means I probably never will. Just be sure to keep an open mind that not everyone is the same

    Also, yes, while it might had started out a bit roughly with me being a bit snippy because of those others I named, I do think this turned out to be an incredibly good conversation.

  4. #1084
    I'm far too happy here myself. Which is exactly why I am wary of MMOfugees trying to turn XIV into WoW. No thanks.

  5. #1085
    I SWEAR on Thall's holy balls, that i tried to change the title literally 10 seconds after i first submitted the post. I never liked the term wow refugees. But it was the nomenclature at the time of writing, so i chucked it in. A far better, and far less antagonistic 'catch all' would have been "New Players, what are you enjoying about the game?" but as anyone who has ever read my posts understands, i don't really think all that much before hitting submit. That's why all my posts have about 10 edits to them. The point of the thread was to be a positive counterpoint to one of the only two main active threads at the time (the megathread, and a different 'ff14 criticism' thread). I was loving the game at the time, and neither really felt like a place i could... ehem... crypto-blog about my adventures and experience with the game.

    As for the wow v ff14 questions, i'd love to answer them, but its not really the thread for it and ive already crapped the thread with my 'woe is me' tangent. So, im hesitant to do it again.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Lvl 60... bards are emo as fuck! I love it! My whm quests were all really sad. Bards are just in their feefees.
    Last edited by ippollite; 2022-11-10 at 11:59 AM.

  6. #1086
    Bloodsail Admiral
    1+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2022
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    1,033
    Quote Originally Posted by HeatBlast View Post
    Respecting player's time is the big one for me: I was never that high in wow raiding, but our 8 hour/w group cleared DSR before 6.2 and our casual, just built group cleared abyssos week 3 on 12 hours a week. I do love wow raids, immensely, but the fact that I am now looking back at ToTGC with fondness instead of disgust shows that it should have gotten a lot more love. It just dropped at an awful time: Have a big raid start your xpac, but have smaller bite-sized raids fill out the rest of the xpac. 8 bosses should be the upper limit, SoO killed me at 14 bosses. . . Great raid, but jesus I'd never get anywhere near done in there nowadays.
    I'd argue that XIV isn't that good at respecting player's time when you consider how absurdly time-consuming it is to gear up multiple classes. Like, yeah, it's only probably two hours a week to reclear with an experienced team, but that's a LOT of weeks to gear up your classes, and god fucking help you if you play an oddball class like NIN and then also any other melee.

    That's better than retail WoW, but it's pretty much exactly equal to Classic WoW, where you have tomes/emblems you grind daily/weekly along with vendor-purchased gear and raid drops. Difference there, though, is that you can run Naxx or Ulduar or whatever until your eyeballs bleed on as many alt characters (equivalent to alt classes) as you feel like gearing up simultaneously. Meanwhile, even if you play eight classes in XIV, you can still only gear up one at a time, per week.

    It's definitely becoming a sore spot for the midcore+ community, and Yoshida's tone-deaf responses to problems like "there aren't enough healers in PF" aren't exactly helping.

    But it's certainly better than the "borrowed power" grinds in WoW, I'll give you that for sure.

  7. #1087
    The Lightbringer Pannonian's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Vienna
    Posts
    3,443
    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Serpent View Post
    I'd argue that XIV isn't that good at respecting player's time when you consider how absurdly time-consuming it is to gear up multiple classes. Like, yeah, it's only probably two hours a week to reclear with an experienced team, but that's a LOT of weeks to gear up your classes, and god fucking help you if you play an oddball class like NIN and then also any other melee.

    That's better than retail WoW, but it's pretty much exactly equal to Classic WoW, where you have tomes/emblems you grind daily/weekly along with vendor-purchased gear and raid drops. Difference there, though, is that you can run Naxx or Ulduar or whatever until your eyeballs bleed on as many alt characters (equivalent to alt classes) as you feel like gearing up simultaneously. Meanwhile, even if you play eight classes in XIV, you can still only gear up one at a time, per week.

    It's definitely becoming a sore spot for the midcore+ community, and Yoshida's tone-deaf responses to problems like "there aren't enough healers in PF" aren't exactly helping.

    But it's certainly better than the "borrowed power" grinds in WoW, I'll give you that for sure.
    Yeah its like classic wow, apart from the fact that all tanks share equip apart from weapons, all heals share equip apart from weapons, all range dps share equip apart from weapons, all magic dps share equip apart from weapons, and while there are 3 melee dps armors, they still share the right side.

    Apart from that, sure it's just like wow.

    Now seriously, if you would talk about the actual problems like not being able to have 2 caster dps sets at the same level with one for SPS and one for Crit, or the fact that you have to make some compromises (e.g.: Playing MNK and RPR makes me shuffle materia around a bit), but sure... its just like wow, just that it isnt at all...

    Actually i think it is much easier to have more jobs at higher level than in WOW, though i actually raid with a toon (only PF 5+6), so my toon has slighty worse gear. But i'm not seeing an easy fix - removing lockouts seems not a good idea - no job restrictions on gear? Yeah, sounds fun - and i'm sure glam people will love the fact they get 1 glam each raid tier...

    I mean there are things to be done, and after playing MCH for a long time - being able to instantly play BRD/DNC - getting into melee feels a bit of a loss, but it's still miles ahead of the gearing nightmare wow.

    This is such a disingenous point, that i'm not sure if you're trolling right now.
    Last edited by Pannonian; 2022-11-14 at 02:08 PM.

  8. #1088
    The Lightbringer Pannonian's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Vienna
    Posts
    3,443
    Quote Originally Posted by HeatBlast View Post
    If you want the absolute BiS determined by community simming and mathing, it can take 2-6 weeks depending on how many pieces you need to buy with tomestones.

    I got BiS samurai in 3 weeks, 4 hours for reclears, it takes our group just over an hour to reclear if we have any dumb wipes, we are literally all in BiS by week 8, and some of us have a second job nearly bis. I play on OCE, where having bugger all players is difficult but I still have a very healthy amount of players to pinch from when needed. You also get books, which is "bad luck protection" that NEVER existed until badge gear, and badge gear couldn't get you BiS gear. Again, nothing you say here is reflective of reality.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Honestly if you wanted to "fix" a lot of issues with loot in 14 right now, it would be allowing the weapon tomestones to be tradeable for coatings, and brines for twines. That alone can make even those who need 6-8 pieces of tomestone gear feel a lot better off, since after week 1, MAYBE 2 those things are just trash. I just don't understand how classic wow got lined up against it, when I know our raid team had 3 left bindings drop before seeing our first right binding, and that was 2 months before naxx, so we were farming for quite some time.
    I probably depends on your progress, but to be honest that has never been a big problem for us - but we take A LOT longer. We only killed Agdistis 4 times and are currently working on Snakes 2. Old people and only 1-2 hours/week

    Do you not get enough coatings/twinings? To be honest i never really took a look at it as most of us play only one job and we loot by Need for raidjob, greed for anything else - when i started playing monk i asked them if i could take the 4 pieces i needed via Need, and got them. So for reference.

  9. #1089
    The Lightbringer Pannonian's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Vienna
    Posts
    3,443
    Quote Originally Posted by HeatBlast View Post
    We are 12 hours per week, but we did 20 hours week 1 for fun and got to p1 enrage, yeah this tier isn't SO bad because no job really needs a crazy amount of coatings/twines, but last tier tanks needed 6? pieces of tomestone gear, and I know for me as blm I needed 5, and you get 1 of each per week, every player getting a freebie every 4 weeks. It's not the end of the world bad or anything, but tomestones/brines just go to the floor after week 3, sure in a group like yours it won't, and that's fine: They still give you 630 weapons, but for groups like ours that cleared week 4 due to scheduling issues, but can clear week 1/2 we'll have no use for them week 2 onwards, so it's just wasted loot space.

    As for loot distribution: We just do dps first on week 1, we'll be pushing that next tier since we are going for week 1, and if we do well we'll push for OCE ranking in next xpac (we are a new group starting this tier). When we kill the final floor tanks/healers get the weapon/chest coffer and mount is free roll, since once we clear any gear no matter who gets it just makes the next clears easier. Loot has NEVER been an issue, in any group I've been or formed, it's always mature because if someone bitches about it I just double check the loot history and either accept that said person has been poorly given loot or tell them to chew it: EVERYONE in a group that has 8 kills of each floor can get bis by that week 8, and close to 2 jobs bis by then. It's why I'm so confused about old mate complaining about the time: we are week 12 and we are BIS our third or fourth alt alt jobs to prep for ultimate 5. . . We legitimately take random people from PF and get them clears while waiting for a consistent 8th to join us.
    Ah thanks for the explanation, yeah that makes a lot of sense - but it seems to me that they're moving in the direction of loot being more generic anyway (weapon coffer + less books for some piece iirc). And yeah, last tier it was way weirder - but this time no one wants to take the trouser token First time we kill the tree, and suddenly i get trousers for greed? wtf? On the other hand we had no ring coffers til week 4 which was a bit annoying.

    Normally we dont prioritize loot for dps as it is always a question of execution, never of tight enrage (on agdistis we hand only one enrage wipe where no one died), so i dont really bother (still healers/tanks passed on weapons without even speaking about it). But yeah, not that progress oriented, given the fact that most of us only started savage with EW and while we have 6 german speaking people on discord, our healers are italian (for hermes and hephaistos they join discord and i switch calls to broken english).

    Still, having a blast and getting reminded of the smaller raidsizes back in the day in WOW. It's much more familiar you get to know your teammates (i can differentiate between 5 different groans of our blm: "lag" - "pot clip" - "double triplecast" - "triplewave" and of course "the next aetherial manipulation will be a close call i hope the sge gets a shield on me, as Manaward is still on cd"), and as we share a sense of humor it is often great fun, which at the end of the day is why i'm doing this...

  10. #1090
    Bloodsail Admiral
    1+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2022
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    1,033
    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    Yeah its like classic wow, apart from the fact that all tanks share equip apart from weapons, all heals share equip apart from weapons, all range dps share equip apart from weapons, all magic dps share equip apart from weapons, and while there are 3 melee dps armors, they still share the right side.

    Apart from that, sure it's just like wow.

    Now seriously, if you would talk about the actual problems like not being able to have 2 caster dps sets at the same level with one for SPS and one for Crit, or the fact that you have to make some compromises (e.g.: Playing MNK and RPR makes me shuffle materia around a bit), but sure... its just like wow, just that it isnt at all...

    Actually i think it is much easier to have more jobs at higher level than in WOW, though i actually raid with a toon (only PF 5+6), so my toon has slighty worse gear. But i'm not seeing an easy fix - removing lockouts seems not a good idea - no job restrictions on gear? Yeah, sounds fun - and i'm sure glam people will love the fact they get 1 glam each raid tier...

    I mean there are things to be done, and after playing MCH for a long time - being able to instantly play BRD/DNC - getting into melee feels a bit of a loss, but it's still miles ahead of the gearing nightmare wow.

    This is such a disingenous point, that i'm not sure if you're trolling right now.
    Classic really isn't a nightmare, though. Unlike XIV, in WoW you pretty much just care about item level. There are oddities where you want the lower-ilvl piece because reasons, but in most cases, *all* of the substats are good for your spec and you typically just want the highest ilvl you can get per slot. You don't have dead stats like Piety for healers (useful, right up until the point it's completely fucking worthless and even a single point more of it is literally 0 DPS), you don't have juggling around gems for different pieces, etc.

    Of course, the solution has already presented itself, WoW figured it out - you can have multiple classes share the same pieces of gear, just have *all* of those stats on the gear and you can either ensure that some of those stats will be literally useless to different classes, or you "activate" or "deactivate" stats based on class/spec. A piece of plate armor will have Int or Str active depending on class/spec, for example. But since classes literally cannot use stats that aren't "theirs" in XIV, I don't see why they couldn't just have, for example, right-side pieces that have literally all stats in equal amounts or something.

    But specific to XIV, the solution is even simpler - just fucking copy Normal. 2nd floor continues to drop the tomestone, and add a blade token to 4th floor. You can trade the tomestone and a blade token to a vendor for your raid weapon. Fights that can drop twine or coatings will always drop one of each that they can drop.

    And then, just like normal, you pick the token or thing you want each week. No RNG in drops, no fighting other players for loot, every single time you kill the boss for the first time that week, you get a piece of loot. And it's already organized better than savage, too!! Longest it takes to get a new piece of gear is 4 weeks/tokens, most other pieces are 2 tokens and accessories are only 1 token. If you're able to reliably reclear, you can get a raid weapon each week if you prefer, instead.

    Even better, you can now raid with as many different groups as you like, kill the boss as often as you like, without anyone suffering any sort of penalty. We're seeing firsthand the problem with the current system, where even if there are experienced players (healers, especially) that could help PF groups clear, they *can't* because those PF groups are trying for 2 chests, or it's the weekend and they still want 1 chest, etc.

    I dunno, dude. The overall shittiness of the WoW playerbase and their garbage LFG/social tools aside, I think Classic WoW has a *vastly* better loot system than XIV's savage raids. Even moreso if they backported in some things like "multi-stat gear" from retail. But I think XIV could have the best loot system of the entire group if they'd stop being fucking morons, admit that savage looting is absolute garbage, and just switch it to be just like Normals. It's pretty obvious normal raids with personal loot work fine, so there's really no justification to not do it.

    It lets people gear a little bit faster, it completely removes the possibility of loot drama from the equation, it ensures maximum number of potential players in PF at all times of the week, and it does so without a lot of extra layers of complexity or currency or whatever crap to track and manage than some of the other solutions suggested.

    It's better in every meaningful way. So, of course, we won't even see it considered until patch 8.15.2332 six years from now, at the rate Square-Enix considers changes to core gameplay systems.

  11. #1091
    I do kinda miss the old days in WoW where if you needed someone's Druid in the guild, you just dragged them along on a run and voila, they were geared.

    Now every game is all about currencies and gating and whatnot.

  12. #1092
    Bloodsail Admiral
    1+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2022
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    1,033
    Quote Originally Posted by HeatBlast View Post
    About the only solve is that 8 books should buy a weapon+chestpiece, or the final floor drops a weapon coffer, chestpiece coffer and no "raw" weapon and instead 4 books buys weap+chestpiece, so earlier loot distribution is lower, but over time more loot is achieved. There are tweaks that would improve loot for XIV, but this doesn't "solve" any problems that already exist.
    You get a weapon *every week* if you're doing full reclears. Tomestone + blade token = raid weapon. I guess you could do tomestone + 4 tokens = raid weapon or something, too. Certainly not 8 tokens, that's way too fucking many. And remember that you get *one* piece per boss, per week - if you take a twine, that means you don't get a chest token or whatever. You could structure it in the same way that loot is already structured (4th floor would be a choice between chest token or weapon token, 1st floor would only drop accessory tokens, etc) but I don't think that's necessary.

    I don't think gearing up quickly is a problem. Or if it is, it's a "player problem" and not a game problem. If people are only coming back to do raids because they want a specific piece of gear, not because the game is actually fun for its own sake, then you've fucked up as a developer. I especially think that a gear grind mentality/design makes no sense when gear is so unimportant in a game like XIV to begin with. I think that "raidlogging" is directly antithetical to what Yoshida has said in interviews, that he wants people to feel like they can take a break.

    So he needs to take a shit or get off the pot, I say. Decide if you actually mean that or not and actually design the game around those principles. Because savage raid loot is very much old-school style where you're supposed to log in whether you're having fun or not and spin the wheel and see if you get loot that week or not. And being one of the only things of that nature left in a game mostly absent of such things, it really sticks out. And as we've seen in interviews and Q&A's the difficulty of gearing up multiple jobs in any kind of reasonable timeframe is a substantial problem, to the point that even the JP players are complaining about it. I mean, the simplest possible answer would be to just reduce the number of pages required to buy gear from the vendor - just cut the costs straight in half, so that many pieces are only one or two pages and the most expensive are four pages.

    Another option would be to unlock/expand tomestone limits much earlier in the tier, like as in four weeks into the tier. Since ilvl/primary stat is the most important factor for pretty much all classes for baseline performance (only orange+ parse chasers really care about having ideal substats etc for the most part), just simply letting people buy more gear per week with tomes is another option.

    Either way, I want them to move away from the coffer system. Whether that's outright replacing it, or just changing things such that getting coffers matters less. Coffers are a fucking retarded system that should have been changed years and years ago. Any system in a fucking *MMO* that actively discourages you from playing with or seeking out help from other players is a bad system and should be thrown out and replaced with something that *encourages* player interaction.

    wrt "player problems," like it or not, the vast majority of raiders do *NOT* have a reliable static that they always play with. Most people raid partially or completely via Party Finder, or via Raid Finder on JP servers. You *cannot* base core gameplay systems on the assumption that everyone has a dedicated static, and anyone who isn't in a static is "lol ur screwed." That's how you get the fucking insanity of WoW where it's dominated by GDKPs (which directly feeds RMT activity) and other idiotic bullshit.

  13. #1093
    Bloodsail Admiral
    1+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2022
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    1,033
    Quote Originally Posted by HeatBlast View Post
    How are coffers bad? You literally open then for the role you want, you also can't help people in wow either if you are saved, since AFAIK you don't get the same amount of loot if 19/20 people are saved, that last person doesn't get 5 pieces. I'm really confused here, are you upset you don't get BiS in one week, or upset it takes too long to BiS out (WoW in both classic and current take much longer to bis your raid out). In a vacuum there are improvements that can be made, but I'm still confused coffers are bad?

    Probably comes across as a bit blunt, but I am legitimately confused as to how coffers are bad, some of your complaints are valid and shared (weapons and chest pieces are annoying to get around), but coffers themselves have never really been the target of complaints to my knowledge.
    WoW lets you have multiple characters with ease, each of which is on a separate lockout. For sure, you can't help with the same character, but you probably have several you can use. It would be like if coffers were per-class rather than per-character in XIV.

    Coffers are bad because they directly and intentionally discourage players from helping others, or from seeking help from others. As I already said, that's a cardinal sin in MMO design. MMOs are meant to guide players into working with and playing with other players, else you might as well play some other kind of game.

    Loot limitations were designed as a way of forcefully extending the life of content so that players don't get tired of it too quickly, but this is *directly* antithetical to the project director's own words, where he *wants* people to feel like they can take breaks without being out anything.

    Coffers need to go, if for no other reason than they are completely incongruous with Yoshida's stated design goals for the game.

  14. #1094
    Herald of the Titans
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    2,539
    Quote Originally Posted by HeatBlast View Post
    You can also have multiple characters in FF, it front-ends the pain with a longer campaign, but gearing multiple chars in WoW and keeping them geared and ready is painful. Even if they didn't have coffers you'd still be loot-locked until they unlock loot, that's a design choice so people don't hard-spam content week 1 until burnout.
    Gearing alts in WOW is nowhere near as painful as people claim, if your goal is having a normal raid ready alt. If you want multiple mains to raid mythic then it will be painful. Right now I can start a new toon and have it in mostly 226 gear in less then a week.

  15. #1095
    Bloodsail Admiral
    1+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2022
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    1,033
    Quote Originally Posted by HeatBlast View Post
    Savage is mythic equivalent, so if you are gearing alts to be raid-ready in the similar lockouts then you have to compare it like-for-like, this would be like being able to non-stop farm mythic until everyone had BiS with no lockouts, or (much like top guilds do) having prepped alts.
    Savage is definitely *not* Mythic equivalent. It's far, far more generous on tuning than Mythic WoW is. Ultimates are the analogue for WoW Mythic raids.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by HeatBlast View Post
    You can also have multiple characters in FF, it front-ends the pain with a longer campaign, but gearing multiple chars in WoW and keeping them geared and ready is painful. Even if they didn't have coffers you'd still be loot-locked until they unlock loot, that's a design choice so people don't hard-spam content week 1 until burnout.
    I'm actually leveling a toon on Marilith now, coming back after a few months off. Wanted a nice, chill grindy game I could play when I'm not in the mood for more involving games.

    It's hard to overstate just *how* front-loaded that process is. Even skipping most cutscenes, I'm still probably looking at 15-20 hours if I beelined right to Abyssos on only one class, much less if I'm trying to enjoy the leveling process. Whereas in WoW, it might be 20-30 hours *total* to go from 1-80 in Classic WotLK (enjoying the process, not beelining using RestedXP or whatever the cool kids use these days, and not counting heirloom XP bonuses) and not even half that for retail. Hell, probably not even a third. I've never actually gotten all the way to GW2 but given the nature of its design it's probably not a good comparison point regardless.

    Yeah, more work involved in WoW once you get there, but I still think that game comes out ahead on time-effectiveness of playing multiple classes in midcore raiding environments. It's *easier* to play more than one class in XIV, because it's all on one character, but it takes less time to do it on WoW. And playing multiple classes in ultimates *is* quite time consuming because BiS really *does* matter there. It's not a big deal if you're like 50 or 100 points off a substat, or you have more DH than you would prefer, but you still need to have the "right" pieces. They do tune that content strictly enough that it matters, especially since people are guaranteed to make errors over the course of an 18 minute marathon fight.

    But it doesn't have to be that way. Just increasing tomes to 900/week starting on week 5 would be a huge benefit, without any other changes. And again, the whole point here is that Yoshida has said he wants his game to be the kind that you can take a break from without feeling like you're losing progress. Yet that's not how savage gearing works.

  16. #1096
    The Lightbringer Pannonian's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Vienna
    Posts
    3,443
    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Serpent View Post
    Savage is definitely *not* Mythic equivalent. It's far, far more generous on tuning than Mythic WoW is. Ultimates are the analogue for WoW Mythic raids.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I'm actually leveling a toon on Marilith now, coming back after a few months off. Wanted a nice, chill grindy game I could play when I'm not in the mood for more involving games.

    It's hard to overstate just *how* front-loaded that process is. Even skipping most cutscenes, I'm still probably looking at 15-20 hours if I beelined right to Abyssos on only one class, much less if I'm trying to enjoy the leveling process. Whereas in WoW, it might be 20-30 hours *total* to go from 1-80 in Classic WotLK (enjoying the process, not beelining using RestedXP or whatever the cool kids use these days, and not counting heirloom XP bonuses) and not even half that for retail. Hell, probably not even a third. I've never actually gotten all the way to GW2 but given the nature of its design it's probably not a good comparison point regardless.

    Yeah, more work involved in WoW once you get there, but I still think that game comes out ahead on time-effectiveness of playing multiple classes in midcore raiding environments. It's *easier* to play more than one class in XIV, because it's all on one character, but it takes less time to do it on WoW. And playing multiple classes in ultimates *is* quite time consuming because BiS really *does* matter there. It's not a big deal if you're like 50 or 100 points off a substat, or you have more DH than you would prefer, but you still need to have the "right" pieces. They do tune that content strictly enough that it matters, especially since people are guaranteed to make errors over the course of an 18 minute marathon fight.

    But it doesn't have to be that way. Just increasing tomes to 900/week starting on week 5 would be a huge benefit, without any other changes. And again, the whole point here is that Yoshida has said he wants his game to be the kind that you can take a break from without feeling like you're losing progress. Yet that's not how savage gearing works.
    Ah now i get it, you want to play multiple jobs at once on one character with separate lockouts, and therefore the loot system has to cater to your needs.

    Isn't the change you actually want that the loot lockout is bound to a job instead of a character? Why make some elaborate change to savage loot like normal loot (and i don't get it, in your example i'd need to loot one chest token from boss 5-8 each to get a chest compared to getting the coffer from P8? Wouldn't that mean getting bis takes longer?)

    Also, your whole comparison is apples to oranges. If you want to actually compare you take one toon per job to have the same lockouts as in wow - of course you think there is not enough loot if you want one character to be able to get the same loot as 14 in WoW, but this makes the comparison just bad.

    I think i'll concur with Heatblast, your base premise is so off, this doesn't make a lot of sense.

    And i do get the feeling you want to bash ff14 to be too grindy and easy altogether - eg.: sAvAgE iS nOt MyThIC!!!!" - yeah mate, no one was talking about the difficulty, but compared to wow, highest raid content that is released REGULARELY (say 3 times an expansion) where you have similar rules for gearing. Because that's what the question was, not how hard it is to clear, but how much time it takes to get geared for the highest regular raid duty. And this is without a doubt Savage.
    Last edited by Pannonian; 2022-11-15 at 09:43 AM.

  17. #1097
    Can't talk about savage, but with regards to normal gear, I take leveling alts so slowly that my healer job is basically in full Abyssos gear by the time I hit cap on it. And even if not, it's basically impossible to not at least have Radiant gear. The weapon is the only rub, but it doesn't need to be with the Hildi weapons now.

  18. #1098
    Bloodsail Admiral
    1+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2022
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    1,033
    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    Ah now i get it, you want to play multiple jobs at once on one character with separate lockouts, and therefore the loot system has to cater to your needs.
    No. I want to play multiple jobs on one character and have them proceed in gearing at nearly equal pacing. But that's not possible because of how they have looting setup. You have to have a "main" and any "alts" you want to play don't get to be used in third or fourth floor clears until several weeks in because crafted gear alone is not generally going to be sufficient for most groups to clear those fights.

    I also want to be able to play with anyone, at any time of the week, and not have my loot progression or their loot progression neutered because I had the fucking temerity to want to play with other people in an MMO.

  19. #1099
    I just want to blog for a teensy second...
    First, what was with all those quests that make you shout some shit in the /say channel, but making you do it again and again until you dot all your i's and cross all your t's? Which sadist came up with that?
    SECOND: I want a tenth circle of hell for the quest designer who made me study in the middle of my escapist fantasy! Tamachag: Azim steppe (the market place), if you havent done it and want to experience game dev sadism...
    Third: ANNOYINGLY! It makes me want to clear this stupid map to see how cheeky those devs get with their 'collect 8 bear arses' trope smashing.
    Fourth (ETA): Every quest is a puzzle quest... to an extent... i genuinely want more of this one tiny quest hub. Its super fun!... plus, im being fed more lore on my favorite zone in the entire game!
    Fifth (ETA2): A prize tip for immersion: Dont hoover the quests up for expedience. Just do them one at a time for immersion. Its so good.
    Sixth (ETA3): Okay, aside the castor/n quest, nothing else matched up. But im legit sad i cant do this again should i level another class... theyre gone for good on this avatar. Still... its one hub... but i always wanted to do the dotharl/sadu tribe quests... and i can do them now... im almost 68... and im in a literal race to hit 71 and resume trust dungeons... but...

    Hey! is there an advantage to alts? Like actual alts (a completely new character doing every single msq unlock...)? Like, no hero classes (no rogue, no dancer, no reaper etc). Just farming from 1-90 on a second character...? Is there an advantage over just dungeoon grinding on an alt? (aside of course the obvious fact that literally everything in game is once again opened up (plus, some of my glams and mounts will carry over)). Is there anything really big that might tempt me to make an alt?
    Last edited by ippollite; 2022-11-17 at 11:58 AM.

  20. #1100
    The Lightbringer Pannonian's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Vienna
    Posts
    3,443
    Quote Originally Posted by ippollite View Post
    I just want to blog for a teensy second...
    First, what was with all those quests that make you shout some shit in the /say channel, but making you do it again and again until you dot all your i's and cross all your t's? Which sadist came up with that?
    SECOND: I want a tenth circle of hell for the quest designer who made me study in the middle of my escapist fantasy! Tamachag: Azim steppe (the market place), if you havent done it and want to experience game dev sadism...
    Third: ANNOYINGLY! It makes me want to clear this stupid map to see how cheeky those devs get with their 'collect 8 bear arses' trope smashing.
    Fourth (ETA): Every quest is a puzzle quest... to an extent... i genuinely want more of this one tiny quest hub. Its super fun!... plus, im being fed more lore on my favorite zone in the entire game!
    Fifth (ETA2): A prize tip for immersion: Dont hoover the quests up for expedience. Just do them one at a time for immersion. Its so good.
    Sixth (ETA3): Okay, aside the castor/n quest, nothing else matched up. But im legit sad i cant do this again should i level another class... theyre gone for good on this avatar. Still... its one hub... but i always wanted to do the dotharl/sadu tribe quests... and i can do them now... im almost 68... and im in a literal race to hit 71 and resume trust dungeons... but...

    Hey! is there an advantage to alts? Like actual alts (a completely new character doing every single msq unlock...)? Like, no hero classes (no rogue, no dancer, no reaper etc). Just farming from 1-90 on a second character...? Is there an advantage over just dungeoon grinding on an alt? (aside of course the obvious fact that literally everything in game is once again opened up (plus, some of my glams and mounts will carry over)). Is there anything really big that might tempt me to make an alt?
    Personally i can see 5 reasons for an alt (3 of them apply to me, and my alts):

    Doing story again (now probably more redundant with NG+) incidentally, i always do all the Azim Steppe side quests as they are my favorite zone.
    Aesthetics - want to see a different WoL without using Fantasia all the time?
    Lockouts - Want to do more PF? (Getting a group with a lockout is much easier than without)
    Server/Datacenter - Obvious
    Retainer - If you pay for retainer it can be a nice passive income. I pay for extra retainer, so all my alts have fisher at 90 and all FSH retainer, which i log in once a day - sometimes there is a fat cat- just passive income for virtually no work apart from the initial time investment

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •