So now that SL is over, how'd you feel about Jailor?

[ClassicPeon]

Will you miss him?

I think he had some promise but the overall state of shadowlands- everything from its zones to covenants and the maw especially didnt do him any favours. Him being in the zone that everyone tried to avoid because it was just plain annoying and obviously blizzard really didnt really know what to do with it. And lastly he should have been build up more. If not he himself at least the notion of a shadowlands and his involvement in everything.

[Myradin]

Can't believe they managed to top WoD.

The more important you make something, the more important it is to write it well.

WoD was in an alternate timeline. None of it really mattered outside of stopping them from attacking us.

Meanwhile Shadowlands tried to make baldy behind just about everything in the universe outside of the void lords. This is a character who needed to be written very carefully lest he devalue the entire franchise.

[bullseyed]

Easily one of the most bland villians the game has ever seen. His motive seemed empty, his methods were obtuse and he just was evil to be evil. When you get pop-up super villains with no history, its hard to grow attached to them unless they have a ton of personality. Double Dick Donnie ie Sire Denathrius was far more exciting because he had so much personality, hell his sword was more memorable than the Jailer.

An animated robot felt un-human to you? Interesting. Probably because he wasn't human.

Characterizing anyone who opposes you as a villain is childish and immature. Why do we have any more right to control Azeroth than Sargeras or Zovaal? We don't even know who the First Ones are. Zovaal theorized they left sigils for him because they intended him to harness the power of Azeroth. What if they were right? What if super space Hitler rises to power now because Zovaal didn't hit the reset button?

The best part is, Azeroth is a titan. We're cursed by the old gods to become flesh, aberrations of titan-created beings past. When Azeroth wakes, her first logical act would be to exterminate us. She is beholden to the "order" power, the same way Zovaal was beholden to "death" power. One is not greater than the other, one is not right or wrong, good or evil. A world dominated by light is as bad as one dominated by void. We ourselves are being of the void, via the old gods, created by the void lords and flung into our world. But we're also being of order, as corrupted titan creations.

[Itisamuh]

I had no problem with him except that I found it insulting that he got an entire expansion while a fully freed old god with a ton of background lore only got a single patch.

[bullseyed]

Think a lot has been said about it and i doubt my opinion will be novel, so i'll try to sum it up: His writing lacked coherent purpose. We aren't given a reason he couldn't have simply told his fellow Eternal Ones "dudes like, void is coming, lets band together so i won't need to go all Sargeras on you".

There's also little reason given to why he needs to reshape reality in the first place. Aside from void danger, what was so bad about the current afterlife? the lack of choice in covenants can be cruel, but it seemed well intentioned and not so bad as to justify universal dystopia.

There is no evidence that "void" is the power coming that Zovaal was trying to prevent.

And if you paid any attention to the story at all, you would know that Zovaal did try to band together to use the power of the First Ones, and his brethren imprisoned and mind-raped him for it.

Not for saying "we should create a world of domination" but for saying "hey they left us these sigil things, we should see what they are used for". Only after literally timeless and infinite torture did he pivot from "we should see what these powers do" to "I'm going to use the powers for myself because you shits tortured me and I want revenge now".

[SinR]

Will you miss him?

Short answer: No

Longer Answer: Noooooooooooooooooooooooo

[Zuben]

He was such a non-entity through the expansion that his death scene was easily the most memorable and emotion-inducing, yet everything in Warcraft's history was attributed to his genius plan. No, I won't miss him.

[Aucald]

There is no evidence that "void" is the power coming that Zovaal was trying to prevent.

And if you paid any attention to the story at all, you would know that Zovaal did try to band together to use the power of the First Ones, and his brethren imprisoned and mind-raped him for it.

Not for saying "we should create a world of domination" but for saying "hey they left us these sigil things, we should see what they are used for". Only after literally timeless and infinite torture did he pivot from "we should see what these powers do" to "I'm going to use the powers for myself because you shits tortured me and I want revenge now".

Zovaal's attempts to access Zereth Mortis and the Sepulcher of the First Ones (as the Arbiter and as the Jailer) were because he found the design of the First Ones flawed and that was because he felt the mutually opposed realms were ill-suited to contend with a mysterious threat that "was to come," as per the ending cinematic dialogue when he is defeated in the SotFO raid.

[bloodwulf]

An animated robot felt un-human to you? Interesting. Probably because he wasn't human.

Characterizing anyone who opposes you as a villain is childish and immature. Why do we have any more right to control Azeroth than Sargeras or Zovaal? We don't even know who the First Ones are. Zovaal theorized they left sigils for him because they intended him to harness the power of Azeroth. What if they were right? What if super space Hitler rises to power now because Zovaal didn't hit the reset button?

The best part is, Azeroth is a titan. We're cursed by the old gods to become flesh, aberrations of titan-created beings past. When Azeroth wakes, her first logical act would be to exterminate us. She is beholden to the "order" power, the same way Zovaal was beholden to "death" power. One is not greater than the other, one is not right or wrong, good or evil. A world dominated by light is as bad as one dominated by void. We ourselves are being of the void, via the old gods, created by the void lords and flung into our world. But we're also being of order, as corrupted titan creations.

I think you quoted the wrong person? I have never said anything about him being un-human, and he was literally by definition of Blizzard the villain of this story arc, and villain by definition is someone whose motives oppose the hero. There is nothing childish about using that term as it is literally the right term for the Jailer. As for the stuff about Azeroth, yeah that is all likely to happen in the inevitable Void\Light expansion, and i agree we will be in opposition to both Light and Void beings, and if it ever gets to that point, Azeroth will be the final Villain of that plotline. Hell, FF14 essentially did that plot already in Shadowbringers so its not a new idea.

So drop the pretension, you are either having the argument with the wrong person, or acting as if the person you are arguing with knows less than you do.

[Unholyground]

Maybe that Arthas spark didn't actually extinguish and he will highjack the the body in the ultimate retcon everyone will hate.

[bloodwulf]

Maybe that Arthas spark didn't actually extinguish and he will highjack the the body in the ultimate retcon everyone will hate.

That would be so depressing, but i could honestly see that happening sadly. I hope that Arthas is canonically disenchanted and will never be relevant again, but Blizzard does love to "Break Glass in case of lagging sales on retired NPCS".

[Accendor]

His inclusion and execution made me more or less deny Shadowlands as canon. Yes, it's petty, but Shadowlands was just that bad to me. Even worse than BfA, which I thought was impossible to beat. Thankfully, DF looks to be abandoning everything that happened in the Shadowlands. Save for one thing in regards to Tyrande, but that's going to be fairly easy to ignore Shadowlands with.

Unfortunately, some big parts will spill over to DF. I really hope you are not a fan of night elves, because oh boi, the Blizzard hate train for them is not stopping anytime soon.

[Julmara]

the only thing that is worth remembering where his nipples

[enigma77]

forgettable cosmic nonsense

wow writers suck

[Koollan]

Unfortunately, some big parts will spill over to DF. I really hope you are not a fan of night elves, because oh boi, the Blizzard hate train for them is not stopping anytime soon.

I personally don't care. As long as we're not going to any cosmic realms and pulling Deus Ex Machinas and Retcons and " " " Recontextualizations " " " out of nowhere, then I really do not care. The story will be better for it and that's all I want.

Yes, I'm aware that there's going to be at least one big deus ex machina in DF. Whatever. I'm not happy about it, but Shadowlands was still worse by miles. Night elves as an entire race can become villains for all I care, it will still be a better story than Shadowlands. They could take night elves out of the game entirely and it would still be better than Shadowlands. Hell, they could kill Thrall, Baine, revive them, alongside Cairne, and then kill them again, and it would still be a better story than Shadowlands.

Is it apparent how much I hate Shadowlands?

[Al Gorefiend]

I had no problem with him except that I found it insulting that he got an entire expansion while a fully freed old god with a ton of background lore only got a single patch.

This made me feel sad reading it.

[Catscratch]

Who is the jailor ?

[Zyky]

Will you miss him?

He didn't have a presence, there was no build up to who he was. The whole expansion felt like a jumbled mess from a plot standpoint where they tried making this cosmic force as an end boss. There was no build up to who he was, what caused him to be the way he is, there was very little known about it. If you think back Illidan, Lich King, Garrosh, Deathwing...we had established lore with these characters for years, the Jailer shows up out of left field with no build up on who he is, we still have no clue who the first ones are, and we're going into an expansion that doesn't continue any current unended storyline.

Edit: So no, I won't miss someone who was pointless to the story, like any mid-raid, no name, boss

[bloodmoth13]

The Janitor clearly existed for the sole purpose of redeeming Slayvanas.

You see, before SLs, Sylvanas' crimes were her own. She was 100% responsible for all the atrocities she and the Forsaken pulled throughout the years.

The Forsaken prided themselves in free will, after all, remember? Sylvanas had free will in the pre-SLs lore and so all those crimes were her responsibility.

But now that the Janitor was invented, you can no longer argue that it's all Sylvanas and the Forsaken's fault, because they were all devilishly influenced by the evil janitor, in his evil dark tower, with his evil metal voice, and his evil scheme of domination.

And so we can clearly see that the only reason why he was invented is because Blizzard (Horde-biased as usual) needed a quick way to absolve Sylvanas and her people of all the atrocities they committed. By simply pinning all of them on this asspulled villain. Simultaneously depriving the Alliance of the right to want vengeance, since it was all the Bald Man's fault, and not Sylvanas/the Forsaken's.

Which ironically means reverting back on the only thing that made the Forsaken unique: free will. As they were all just unwitting pawns in the Janitor's grand plan of deceptive cunning, they never had true freedom.

She claimed responsibility for her crimes though. You could see that they were going for that and the community wasn't buying it so they did what they should have done and sentenced her to the maw pretty much indefinitely.

They failed to spin a convincing narrative that the afterlives were so broken that genocide was worthwhile, especially considering she sent an entire population to hell to stop them from going to the wrong heaven, and the only thing we could immediately see that was wrong was shit her boss caused. It was an absolute mess. The only good part of her story was the end of it imo.

Also horde bias is a bit of a stretch at this point, they have lost almost the entirety of their cast and almost all of their lore figures are either killed off, turn evil or are alliance sympathisers (baine is anduins best friend and lorthemar canonically wanted to rejoin the alliance). If the writers didn't butcher 3 horde warchiefs back to back you might have a point. Also alliance needs to be pulled off their high horse, their writing is a mess because they always turn the other cheek.
Battle for azeroth should have started with the alliance invading lordaeron and the forsaken taking out teldrassil as a response, but they had already decided that they needed another evil horde warchief and had to unceremoniously kill off voljin in the dumbest way possible and make his stupidity the reason for all the problems in wow. Horde bias tho.

[Soeroah]

I think his existence was foreshadowed enough to have been predictable from Legion - I know because I was having "the entity behind the Lich King" theories in early Legion. I wasn't against the idea, I think it expands things in a fun way.

I do think he was a terrible follow-through to that groundwork, though. What could have been akin to discovering the titans in vanilla through Wrath was rushed out Justice League style to try to get to the fun stuff without sufficient build up. Such a supposedly dangerous character was teased for a couple expansions very subtly, shoved in our faces in the introduction to the expansion, pulled an Arthas every time we saw him and ultimately fizzled out without impacting the story in any good or decent way.

Same with the First Ones. Theoretically I love the idea and I'm eager to see how they subtly shaped the universe. I do not think we should have gone from "Huh, this stone looks different from titan technology" to "here we are in the cradle of creation where gods are born" in *a year*.

So, all up, the Jailor was wasted potential even worse than WoD and I'm happy to never hear about him again.