After playing Wrath I’m reminded why they pruned abilities

[Tsyplenk]

I mean I do, and I'm telling you that you're wrong because you're trying to 1) min/max on classic and 2) do not play retail

But go off pal.

also min/maxing in classic where it literally do not matter.

Yeah, but it completely matters in retail to the 100 people that still play and the 2 guilds that take it serious LMAO.

Guys, I know you're mad because Classic is objectively pretty simple and old yet still much better and popular than retail, but calm down please.

[tomten]

Why people keep making clueless posts. Heroic Fury is a talent that resets Intercept cooldown, the Heroic Leap icon was taken directly from this.

I love how people make arguments in a topic like this when they are utterly clueless about the game. Well done guys keep this up.

I said about the icons. Still, you're not using rallying cry, you're not using health pots, you're having multiple macros for the same thing and then not and so on. you're being disengous trying to make a point and its see trough and it failed

[Bigbazz]

I said about the icons. Still, you're not using rallying cry, you're not using health pots, you're having multiple macros for the same thing and then not and so on. you're being disengous trying to make a point and its see trough and it failed

I've explained this before but I have multiple macros that do (almost) the same thing on BOTH retail and wotlk, funny that you only pointed it out when looking at WOTLK? And how many times is someone going to point out something about my WOTLK action bars and completely misunderstand what they are seeing because they don't play WOTLK? It's getting ridiculous. I gave people the benefit of the doubt that they would know what they were looking at, found the complete opposite. You're clueless, so are several others, why even comment on Classic if you know nothing?

Do you also see that there are 3 stances, all of which are keybinded and have additional stance locked abilities? Do you ignore that old baseline abilities have been turned into talents in DF where passives are very often more attractive, or to where choosing one will often gimp your spec? Absolutely valid concerns being absolutely raised by Warriors everywhere, but in a thread with people who have a chip on their shoulder about Classic, a trigger condition, apparently.

[sam86]

Why people keep making clueless posts. Heroic Fury is a talent that resets Intercept cooldown, the Heroic Leap icon was taken directly from this.

how many ppl can remember that heroic leap icon existed in wow before heroic leap? I didn't know that and i started playing since bg patch in classic
of all criticism can be found here, i find the idea that heroic leap icon existed before the ability was in game very solid, i mean not sure in wrath or mid tbc stormstrike and hammer of justice icons were both the same, so u can only tell if enemy is debuffed by stromstrike or hammer by moving (when did they remove show magic ability from mage again exactly too?)

- - - Updated - - -

I will say it again, but slower. I linked. the #1 warrior parse. in all of classic wow.

If you think the #1 warrior is a player that doesn't even know how to properly use his defensive and utility-based abilities, then that speaks volumes about the game way more than the player lol. Game must be piss-easy if a player that doesn't even know how to use spell reflect properly can be the top performer in all the land

so why exactly u linking him? what u showing here? he can dps?
Are u linking to show that he doesn't use utility abilities, in a dps chart that won't show them even if he used them? what IS ur point here?

[Bigbazz]

how many ppl can remember that heroic leap icon existed in wow before heroic leap? I didn't know that and i started playing since bg patch in classic
of all criticism can be found here, i find the idea that heroic leap icon existed before the ability was in game very solid, i mean not sure in wrath or mid tbc stormstrike and hammer of justice icons were both the same, so u can only tell if enemy is debuffed by stromstrike or hammer by moving (when did they remove show magic ability from mage again exactly too?)?

I was technically slightly wrong. The Heroic Leap icon was originally used for Heroic Leap, but leap got removed from the game during the PTR testing phase for 3.0 because people were using it to get into places they shouldn't. Blizzard replaced the talent with Heroic Fury to reset the CD on Intercept. The original Heroic Leap actually worked a little more like a mages Blink, as in you couldn't choose where you would leap to, but it would leap in a direction you were pointing.

They removed it and then re-designed it for Cataclysm. Was the icon in the game even before that? I don't know, it doesn't matter. My whole point was responding to someone attempting to make fun of me because they didn't know anything about WOTLK Warrior and jumped to some conclusions.

[Jastall]

I'm not having to try hard when we're talking about WOTLK and somebody (who would that be mate? I wonder who would do that?) links a vanilla guide. Nobody said WOTLK was hard, I said that WOTLK dps Warrior was more complex than DF dps Warrior, which really isn't saying a lot is it. Still, that was enough to trigger all the people in the thread who don't even play dps Warrior but are upset because "classic".

Blizzard offloaded the complexity of the game towards the content over time, rather than just the specs. Personally I prefer that approach, while it's harder to get theoretical maximum DPS in WOTLK than in retail, neither are particularly demanding in the first place while retail has challenging content that commands respect. WOTLK does have some too of course, not pretending it's all Naxx80 level of dumb faceroll, but the min-max being the challenge itself rather than something you engage in to defeat the challenging encounters is a much better motivator to me. Plus Fury is just fun, spammy sure but it's fun spam, and while I liked WOTLK Arms (still doesn't beat MoP Arms) I can't say it was my favorite iteration of DPS Warrior. How hard a spec is to max has little bearing on how fun I'll have playing it.

Then again that's not all specs. Some like Unholy, Feral, Demo or the new Preservation can be pretty complex to play optimally even when wailing on dummies.

[Alkizon]

I ran my eyes through the whole topic and didn't find anything that could be hooked on "thoroughly".

Well, I'll tell from myself then:
1) Yes, many people used "one-button" macros;
2) I had highly demanding spells on main panel and (since many situations were predictable, and abilities "preferred for other specializations" of direct/non-complex purposes were not taken out at all for their inefficiency) others were brought to top/second bar for a short time - there were such ones;
3) ...and there were people like my friend, who put all abilities on panel through basic 1~6 + QECBXGTF`/ + shift/ctrl and they had absolutely all abilities, that could be used, on panel, this isn't kind of fairy tale, I saw these spell panels on screenshots (up to 3 screenshots for almost every character + abilities similar in purpose between classes were all set to same macroses, very convenient) and everything was very nice and cute, and now cherry on this ice cream is - person, until the last moment of departure in 2015, used only standard Blizzard interface, there was never a single external add-on in screenshots either next to map or visually by general signs (I saw screenshots of Holy Priest with all assist&heal&combat abilities, absolutely everything was hidden through shift/ctrl on main panel).

Everything is possible, people are adaptive creatures, I don't see a problem, I see a little room for some local creativity. OP, you're thinking a little narrowly.

ps. Here is one of few screenshots survived in web since discussions (with visible interface; also lol, you can see even auto-attack on panel here, likely since bliz left nothing useful) from general pack, unfortunately this is already period of WoD and there're almost no abilities left, so one screenshot is enough for general understanding of situation and maximum of 2 for detailed description of each class-characters. Here is a screenshot of a novice "cataclysm" mage, which has already been on forum once... also - Bingo! found couple from time of WoTLK from same person, this is "very young" prot-paladin.

Enh shaman had coolest panels I saw, all tatems, except for those with a high cd, were on hotkeys and were always at hand. And now imagine reaction of this person, when devs removed them all, all functionality, that was available, all its power and pride. For motility it's like cutting off most of your fingers.

ps2. But, according to personal feedback - "it was very easy to switch from these hotkeys to BDO interface".

[sam86]

Then again that's not all specs. Some like Unholy, Feral, Demo or the new Preservation can be pretty complex to play optimally even when wailing on dummies.

I remember Feral was way too much complex in wrath, being cat dps was even refused by some guilds because a cat rotation too complex that he can't focus on guild environment
It was nerfed and became far simpler, even up to legion (last exp i tried feral), so is it still as complex as wrath?
Warlock demo on other hand now is more complex than ever, and i don't remember even last time i played unholy DK

[Bigbazz]

Blizzard offloaded the complexity of the game towards the content over time, rather than just the specs. Personally I prefer that approach, while it's harder to get theoretical maximum DPS in WOTLK than in retail, neither are particularly demanding in the first place while retail has challenging content that commands respect. WOTLK does have some too of course, not pretending it's all Naxx80 level of dumb faceroll, but the min-max being the challenge itself rather than something you engage in to defeat the challenging encounters is a much better motivator to me. Plus Fury is just fun, spammy sure but it's fun spam, and while I liked WOTLK Arms (still doesn't beat MoP Arms) I can't say it was my favorite iteration of DPS Warrior. How hard a spec is to max has little bearing on how fun I'll have playing it.

Then again that's not all specs. Some like Unholy, Feral, Demo or the new Preservation can be pretty complex to play optimally even when wailing on dummies.

What I like about WOTLK Fury is that it's easy to learn and difficult to master, you couldn't really ask for better class design. You can play it decently well without too much trouble, but it has a lot of layers of min-maxing available to you that allows you to really squeeze out the extra damage and maximise your rage flow, that makes it more engaging to play longterm.

When you say MOP > WOTLK for Arms I would also agree with that. Tho it depends whether you're talking about the launch version of MOP Arms which was very complex and difficult to master with a lot of RNG tied to it (if you remember you had that RNG talent that boosted Heroic Strike) and then you had the much more simplified re-design they brought out afterwards. The reworked Arms was really bad until Siege of Orgrimmar came out with several huge buffs making it super strong at low gear levels, very high APM kinda build but fairly easy to play. Sadly the SOO Arms at higher gear levels just didn't scale so it was only good on AOE/cleave.

I liked that version of Arms in MOP and remember it well, because you had the Slam rotation or you had the OP + HS rotation and at some point the OP + HS spam rotation surpassed the Slam rotation that had become the norm. For me MOP Arms in SOO was truly a fun spec to play, the massive contrast when they ruined it going into WOD in the name of simplicity.