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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    I mean, sorry but this seems like a terrible and unreasonable attitude, and that you could never, ever, ever be happy with what they did. It seems like, based on what you're saying here, nothing would satisfy you or make you happy, you'd just be more or less disappointed.

    Frankly, that means you're not the target audience and Blizzard should absolutely NOT listen to anyone who is only ever going to be disappointed.

    If that's not right, let me know, but that's what it sounds like.
    Let me explain myself better.

    I mean against more make me wait for something. I have more expectations of that something.

    * In BFA I expected us to kill Sylvanas in a horrible way and a few Horde.
    * In SW we expect a new city.. but not a city has to be "the super city emporded with the souls of the Kaldorei" and a compensation for the insult of the Night war plot.
    * Now in DF. I hope that not only more of the city but that the Kaldorei will be immortal again and a compensation for what is going to happen with Malfurion.

    PS: In addition to taking by force the Kaldorei territories that the Horde has. (Thanks to Kalimndor's novel)

    The more time passes. Blizzard is raising expectations intentionally and unintentionally.

    It's like Half-Life 3. The more time passes, the harder it's going to be to meet expectations.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by geco View Post
    Let me explain myself better.

    I mean against more make me wait for something. I have more expectations of that something.

    * In BFA I expected us to kill Sylvanas in a horrible way and a few Horde.
    * In SW we expect a new city.. but not a city has to be "the super city emporded with the souls of the Kaldorei" and a compensation for the insult of the Night war plot.
    * Now in DF. I hope that not only more of the city but that the Kaldorei will be immortal again and a compensation for what is going to happen with Malfurion.

    PS: In addition to taking by force the Kaldorei territories that the Horde has. (Thanks to Kalimndor's novel)

    The more time passes. Blizzard is raising expectations intentionally and unintentionally.

    It's like Half-Life 3. The more time passes, the harder it's going to be to meet expectations.
    That's what I'm saying, your expectations are inherently unreasonable. They only get more unreasonable. You want things which probably won't happen, and you want them yesterday.

    So you're not a customer worth pursuing. You're not the target audience. You're going to be extremely grumpy and dismissive even if they do something incredible. Stuff like "a compensation" and so on is just absolutely bizarre metagame thinking that is horrible for storytelling. You literally should not be thinking like that. The story of WoW doesn't have to be "balanced" like a character class. That's just really bad.
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  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    That's what I'm saying, your expectations are inherently unreasonable. They only get more unreasonable. You want things which probably won't happen, and you want them yesterday.

    So you're not a customer worth pursuing. You're not the target audience. You're going to be extremely grumpy and dismissive even if they do something incredible. Stuff like "a compensation" and so on is just absolutely bizarre metagame thinking that is horrible for storytelling. You literally should not be thinking like that. The story of WoW doesn't have to be "balanced" like a character class. That's just really bad.
    The thing is, a lot of the things I'm asking for are things that Wow Himself said.

    * Vengeance said it WoW.
    * The idea of "a mega city" was said when he planted such an important seed (Remember that Teldrazzil was raised relatively easy)
    * What to recover the lands is a premise of the game
    * Waiting for Malfurion's plot to lead to something is basic writing. Same thing with the Night war.

    Blizzard continues and continues to promise things that it will not be able to fulfill.

    I mean the target audience would be those who don't follow the story?

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by geco View Post
    The thing is, a lot of the things I'm asking for are things that Wow Himself said.

    * Vengeance said it WoW.
    * The idea of "a mega city" was said when he planted such an important seed (Remember that Teldrazzil was raised relatively easy)
    * What to recover the lands is a premise of the game
    * Waiting for Malfurion's plot to lead to something is basic writing. Same thing with the Night war.

    Blizzard continues and continues to promise things that it will not be able to fulfill.

    I mean the target audience would be those who don't follow the story?
    I'm sorry but I'm pretty confused by some of these phrases.

    "Wow Himself" is who? Ion?

    What does "Vengeance said it WoW." mean? I'm not trying to be rude, but in English that's not a sentence and makes zero sense.

    "Teldrazzil was raised relatively easy" - No? Absolutely not. That's not the lore. It was hard, not "relatively easy". Unless you mean razed which is kind of the opposite of raised (sorry English is a pretty dumb language with similar-sounding words meaning opposites like that, I admit).

    "What to recover the lands is a premise of the game" - Again, not a sentence in English. Do you meaning "Wanting to" instead of "what"?

    "I mean the target audience would be those who don't follow the story?" - It's certainly not the people who are saying they're going to be disappointed whatever Blizzard does lol.
    "A youtuber said so."

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  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    ....
    Throughout, BFA and SW sold us the idea that we had to seek revenge. With cinematics and stories. It's logical to expect to get that at some point in the plot.

    Teldrazzil was planted by a rogue druid behind Malfurion's back in less than 5 years. At this point they could have planted another without problem.
    This "Special" Seed has to give a much more special tree.

    From Cata or even from Vanilla the objective of the Kadlorei is being planted to drive the Horde out of their forests. It is the "Victory" that they are waiting for so much.


    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    "I mean the target audience would be those who don't follow the story?" - It's certainly not the people who are saying they're going to be disappointed whatever Blizzard does lol.
    So the target audience is the one who is happy with whatever blizzard does?

    I'm just realistic. Blizzard has failed at this before and is promising more and more every time.
    It will clearly fail again if it continues like this
    Last edited by geco; 2022-11-18 at 05:23 PM.

  6. #66
    Moderator Rozz's Avatar
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    It'll take until devs are given the time to create an entirely new city and once they finish it, you'll have to wait until they choose which patch cycle to implement it.

    So either:
    1) It's already made and they're waiting for a lore-relevant moment
    2) It's not made, so you have to wait for it to be built and then #1
    3) They're probably updating multiple cities/places at once, so it still falls under #1/#2
    4) It's not happening because they decided mega-raids with details you'll never get to see have priority
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  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by geco View Post
    Throughout, BFA and SW sold us the idea that we had to seek revenge. With cinematics and stories. It's logical to expect to get that at some point in the plot.
    What is SW in this context, SL? And no, not really. They told us a story in which a character sought revenge, and whilst they were shown as "cool/badass", they were also shown as a nutter, and eventually basically calmed down. It's not logical to expect them to suddenly go "Oh I know we had them calm down, but now it's revenge time again!".

    Quote Originally Posted by geco View Post
    Teldrazzil was planted by a rogue druid behind Malfurion's back in less than 5 years. At this point they could have planted another without problem. This "Special" Seed has to give a much more special tree.
    It's definitely not that simple.

    Quote Originally Posted by geco View Post
    From Cata or even from Vanilla the objective of the Kadlorei is being planted to drive the Horde out of their forests. It is the "Victory" that they are waiting for so much.
    Not really. The objective is stop the logging/destruction of the forests, not to drive the Horde out, necessarily. If that stopped without the Horde being driven out, the Kaldorei mission would essentially be accomplished.

    But even then, you can't expect every mission to get accomplished. If they did, they'd have to keep "retiring content" like Destiny 2 does, and honestly I don't think anyone wants that.

    You're asking for something unreasonable - not just a new tree-city, but also a re-work of several zones in the North of Kalimdor.

    Quote Originally Posted by geco View Post
    So the target audience is the one who is happy with whatever blizzard does?
    No. The one is not automatically unhappy though, which is what you've explained you will be.
    "A youtuber said so."

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  8. #68
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myradin View Post
    The battleground isnt really even in the city, not that battlegrounds make sense to constantly be fought over for eternity. The battleground is an instance after all.

    Its not like having a dungeon in it stops SW or Org from being cities.
    It takes part of the Gilneas zone and important landmarks in it.

    Also, a dungeon is different than a battleground. In both cases you mentioned, Stockades and Ragefire Chasms, are internal conflicts in the cities, not the city itself being fought for control by two huge factions.

    Those dungeons are also technically just one-time conflicts happening on an otherwise peaceful zone. The Gilneas BG is an ongoing massive conflict between two armies.
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  9. #69
    Pretty sure where we're at now is the night elves are watering Darnassus 2 (Ardrassil would be a cool name) and being patient, while the Forsaken are working on rebuilding Lordaeron as the new capital as Sylvanas not only blighted, but completely caved in Undercity.

    Would be cool to see that in the form of some phases of WIP world events where we donate supplies or something, but for now that's happening offscreen and we're riding dragons.
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  10. #70
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaedan View Post
    Also, after Siege of Orgrimmar, all Horde presence was officialy removed from Ashenvale, yet Warsong Gulch battleground still existed.
    Yeah, but your example is the opposite of what I mentioned. In lore, all Horde presence was removed, but in the game itself, nothing changes. And that's my point: the fact Gilneas is a BG in the game would prevent the zone to be converted into a major capital city like Exodar, Stormwind and Ironforge, in my understanding.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
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  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    What is SW in this context, SL? And no, not really. They told us a story in which a character sought revenge, and whilst they were shown as "cool/badass", they were also shown as a nutter, and eventually basically calmed down. It's not logical to expect them to suddenly go "Oh I know we had them calm down, but now it's revenge time again!".
    If they said that all that revenge story has to focus on "renewal". So now all that expectation of revenge turns into the idea of Renewal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    It's definitely not that simple.
    It doesn't change the fact that it's something the Kaldorei could have already done without major problems. And without the need for a seed, he carries the strength of all the fallen of Teldrazzil.



    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    Not really. The objective is stop the logging/destruction of the forests, not to drive the Horde out, necessarily. If that stopped without the Horde being driven out, the Kaldorei mission would essentially be accomplished.
    He wasn't talking about kicking out the Druids. But to the Horde that is chopping wood.


    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    But even then, you can't expect every mission to get accomplished. If they did, they'd have to keep "retiring content" like Destiny 2 does, and honestly I don't think anyone wants that.

    You're asking for something unreasonable - not just a new tree-city, but also a re-work of several zones in the North of Kalimdor.
    Under that logic, Teldrassil and the Undercity should never have been destroyed.
    And the war fronts should also continue to be.
    And obviously Cata never had to have happened.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    No. The one is not automatically unhappy though, which is what you've explained you will be.
    You do realize that we are having a conversation where we plant arguments beyond saying "everything about blizzard is bad", right?


    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    Pretty sure where we're at now is the night elves are watering Darnassus 2 (Ardrassil would be a cool name) and being patient, while the Forsaken are working on rebuilding Lordaeron as the new capital as Sylvanas not only blighted, but completely caved in Undercity.

    Would be cool to see that in the form of some phases of WIP world events where we donate supplies or something, but for now that's happening offscreen and we're riding dragons.
    That's what I feel should be the central theme of the expansion.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    Pretty sure where we're at now is the night elves are watering Darnassus 2 (Ardrassil would be a cool name) and being patient, while the Forsaken are working on rebuilding Lordaeron as the new capital as Sylvanas not only blighted, but completely caved in Undercity.

    Would be cool to see that in the form of some phases of WIP world events where we donate supplies or something, but for now that's happening offscreen and we're riding dragons.
    Yes exactly. I expect this to bear fruit either very late in this expansion or more likely in the next expansion.

    Quote Originally Posted by geco View Post
    That's what I feel should be the central theme of the expansion.
    LOL. That seems like a very short-sighted/narrow-minded opinion. Not many people care that much about that. Off-screen would be better for most of it.
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  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    LOL. That seems like a very short-sighted/narrow-minded opinion. Not many people care that much about that. Off-screen would be better for most of it.
    We think like a Cata 2.0 (which it is) They announce it to you with dragons and all that but they are a secondary theme in their own story.

    Like the Warguens and Goblings in Cata XD

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    It takes part of the Gilneas zone and important landmarks in it.

    Also, a dungeon is different than a battleground. In both cases you mentioned, Stockades and Ragefire Chasms, are internal conflicts in the cities, not the city itself being fought for control by two huge factions.

    Those dungeons are also technically just one-time conflicts happening on an otherwise peaceful zone. The Gilneas BG is an ongoing massive conflict between two armies.
    We had SoO and BoD and they are both still City’s so two huge factions fighting over it doesn’t really matter. Nor is it an ongoing conflict almost every battle ground is time locked and is just a gameplay function with there conflicts ending with there expansions.
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  15. #75
    Daloser actively losing on eliminating the night elves so i would not expect a new darnassus.

  16. #76
    Yes, let's plant another tree! The writers don't love destroying them, what could go wrong? The undead have the Alliance serving as janitors to clean Undercity, and the night elves... get to sacrifice their murdered dead unjustly sent to the Maw with zero help from Alliance or Horde. Hey, Alliance players, have you accepted being second class citizens yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilian View Post
    Another genocide by Horde which will be forgiven and promptly forgotten in couple of year's time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orby View Post
    I dont think Horde were rewarded, pretty sure they just took it due to its close proximity to Orgrimmar as well as the Night Elves being cut off from their eastern forests. :P
    Sorry, no. As part of the off screen treaties involved in cleaning up after Garrosh's dumpster fire, Tyrande ceded Azshara to the Horde in exchange for them withdrawing from Ashenvale.

    The Horde agreed, took Ashenvale, and promptly ignored their obligation to withdraw.
    Last edited by Feanoro; 2022-11-18 at 06:21 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toho View Post
    The Horde is basically the guy that gets mad that the guy that they just beat the crap out of had the audacity to bleed on them.
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  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundering View Post
    Darnassus is gone and the Alliance is down to 3 cities while horde still got under city?
    Replacement incoming, or did you not follow the story? New tree to be planted in their new home.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thundering View Post
    Theramore is never fixed.
    Theramore is no more, Jaina has her kingdom in Kul Tiras now, and her subjects who wished so, most likely joined her in Kul Tiras.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thundering View Post
    Not even Gilneas is back ingame for the Alliance even if it did happen lorevise years ago?
    We have literally only recently been informed that Calia will do her best to have the Undead withdraw from Gilneas, so we may return.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thundering View Post
    Will Alliance ever get something?
    Stable leadership is a good start?

    Night Elf home TBA
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  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Lochton View Post
    We have literally only recently been informed that Calia will do her best to have the Undead withdraw from Gilneas, so we may return.
    You know that means it's not going to do anything. Nope?

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by geco View Post
    You know that means it's not going to do anything. Nope?
    Damuser did namedrop the Reclamation of Gilneas as something they want to do.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Thundering View Post
    Darnassus is gone and the Alliance is down to 3 cities while horde still got under city?

    Theramore is never fixed.

    Not even Gilneas is back ingame for the Alliance even if it did happen lorevise years ago?

    Will Alliance ever get something?
    And this surprises absolutely no one. Do we even care anymore?

    If it’s not Orgrimmar or Stormwind it has been given no function - which is a shame as they can do so much with them.

    Currently the strategy has been to give new versions of racial themed cities in expansions that were relevant.

    Night elves got Suramar, Trolls -Zukdazar, Gnomrs Mechagon, Humans Boralus etc.

    While technically these belong to the allied race rather than the main race - these new cities both served as major central expansion hubs or instances/questing zones and/or raids.

    This seems the preferred use. They are more likely to open up those cities to races than do new ones or design an exciting system to make cities powerful and useful.

    Void elves don’t have one though, nor were blood elves’ city revamped.
    Both Dark Irons and Dwarves have cities totally out of date though, even Wild Hammers have Grom Batol
    Mag’har don’t have a city unless you count WoD stuff which while there isn’t exactly now opened up
    Draenei and Lightforged - well D’s got cool new Draenei city they can’t use in Shattrath and Auchindouin - but officially Draenei are in outdated Exodar City and Lightforged don’t have one. They have a space chip tho.
    Forsaken may be in Undercity but it is unchanged. High time to have a proper Lordaeron with an Undercity


    I guess they’ll get to them.

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