Buffed Naxxramas Will Backfire, Disaster Ahead!

[Bigbazz]

Any group that sees not a single decurse, it was the first boss we try, and after 2 wipes of no one decursing, people start leave and disband, cause no one was saved yet :/

- - - Updated - - -



Exactly, how can you get invited if you don't have it? Now I do have it, but I had no achiv, no logs and basically no gear.
.

Why don't you just find a guild. I don't get why people put themselves through this torture and end up doing 6 hour Naxx runs with 25 people who have no clue what day it is and then they complain about sticking to a schedule or finding a guild, when a guild will clear all of T7 in like 2 hours flat, not just Naxx. It boggles my mind why people do this, I would literally quit the game if I had to pug to raid.

https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/gear-p...rNoRAKzaEgCpFA

And here is also the issue. It looks like you're a new player that hasn't done any research. Your character has massive red flags, things you can fix yourself.

1. It appears you're a combat rogue, using slow weapons in the offhand is a big no-no due to the combat potency talent. This is combat Rogue basics, you need a fast offhand. As soon as I see that weapon in the offhand I think you're going to be a problem in the raid. If you want a suitable easy to get offhand weapon, Librarians Paper-Cutter.

2. I'm assuming no gems/enchants. You need enchants on all items, at least premium TBC ones or budget WOTLK ones and WOTLK blue quality gems, 16 hit gems are cheap.

3. Helmet with a meta socket, you lack one and you need one.

4. Quite frankly I'd expect you have farmed more dungeons, picked up more BOE's, more rep exalted items.

People say it's easy but they don't know what it's like at the bottom where you have 0 things to show

This is what I expect from you if I'm inviting you to a Naxx raid, all of this is doable without touching any raids by questing, crafting and doing dungeons.

Gear Link

Talents

Depending on your professions you can get further optimisations easily. If you're not at least close to this you're asking to be carried. None of this is expensive or the best available, just the bare minimum effort.

[craigw]

Wiping and disbanding on Patchwerk over and over, cause tanks die. Priests failing on Raz. No decurse on Noth, even wiping there. Wiped on every single boss in fact.

- - - Updated - - -




Try getting a group without achievement and blue gear, it's not easy. Everyone denies cause of low GS. That addon is killing the game...

without the add they will inspect you then kick you. this just makes the final outcome of you getting kicked faster. unless you want to get invited to a group. help summon everyone, then get kicked? casue thats what would happen if you were in blues with no achievement this late in a faceroll tier. super casualing it up you should have 3-4 purples already. from the shittier badges. maybe some purples from rep using tabards.

[voidillusion]

The hardest part of Naxx 10/25 is doing a few of the achievements.

Denyin the Scion and They Would All Go Down Together seem like bitches. Immortal and undying even don't seem that difficult.

They would all go down Together is actually pretty simple to do. Shocking has been my nightmare, someone always manages to fuck it up just to get that extra dps for da parses mon!

[Elder Millennial]

I'm one of those people who hasn't played since Siege of Orgrimmar, I came back for Wotlk specific and honestly I'm truly shocked by how utterly faceroll T7 is, my shock got even worse when I found out it was actually buffed.

I remember clearing Naxx, even a few months into the expansion to be a 4 hour something undertaking back in the day.

This really puts for me into perspective how much gaming and gamers in general have evolved in a decade, and how much more challenging modern game design needs to be.

Tho I also wonder how much of a difference better PCs and internet connections add to this equation.

[Bramickias]

If it was up to me, Molten Core level, that was so nice, you could just take anyone. You join, you kill, 0 chance of wipes, you have fun, have a few laughs, quick clear, easy loot, that's it, it was perfect!

Naxx10 is even easier then MC was. A group that wipes to Noth wouldnt made it pass Lucifron in MC. Even Shazzrah was harder then this version of 4Horseman where the only thing required is for melee to take a nap away from Zeliek. Your GS might be low, but it's the "inspect at fountain" that would make any Raid Leader drop you.
Helm without a meta, no crafted gear, no exalted gear, no tier gear, not even Naxx10 gear ....

[jackofwind]

If it was up to me, Molten Core level, that was so nice, you could just take anyone. You join, you kill, 0 chance of wipes, you have fun, have a few laughs, quick clear, easy loot, that's it, it was perfect!

What's the point of even raiding then, might as well just have dungeons drop raid loot if you want inherently zero challenge.

[Bigbazz]

This really puts for me into perspective how much gaming and gamers in general have evolved in a decade, and how much more challenging modern game design needs to be.

I think people are giving themselves too much credit. Naxx was buffed slightly but it's irrelevant because the classes in WOTLK were buffed massively, some specs are capable of doing +50% or even higher dps than they would in patch 3.0, tanks and healers also saw huge buffs. People still managed to get all the achievements done back in the day while playing on a much higher difficulty than WOTLK classic, so rather than giving "modern gamers" credit you have to be honest and acknowledge you're also playing an easier game.

WOTLK Classic is substantially easier than it was the first time around, the average gamer getting better isn't the primary factor especially given we've seen in this thread that players can be horrifyingly bad at the game today too, even when doing easier than ever Naxx.

Fury Warrior is a good example, they are very far behind and one of the lowest dps in the game. In Patch 3.0 they were one of highest dps in the game, capable of topping meters. Ok then you look at how much DPS a Fury Warrior is doing and it's probably slightly higher than it was in 3.0, while going from the top of the meters to the bottom.

[Hctaz]

Fury Warrior is a good example, they are very far behind and one of the lowest dps in the game. In Patch 3.0 they were one of highest dps in the game, capable of topping meters. Ok then you look at how much DPS a Fury Warrior is doing and it's probably slightly higher than it was in 3.0, while going from the top of the meters to the bottom.

Are you sure Fury warrior was a good example?

Did they massively overhaul how armor penetration worked midway through the expansion or something, because Fury warrior as a class only got buffed from 3.0 to 3.3.5.
I also don't remember Fury warrior being all that good in 3.0 Naxx, but I also didn't pay too much attention.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm one of those people who hasn't played since Siege of Orgrimmar, I came back for Wotlk specific and honestly I'm truly shocked by how utterly faceroll T7 is, my shock got even worse when I found out it was actually buffed.

I remember clearing Naxx, even a few months into the expansion to be a 4 hour something undertaking back in the day.

This really puts for me into perspective how much gaming and gamers in general have evolved in a decade, and how much more challenging modern game design needs to be.

Tho I also wonder how much of a difference better PCs and internet connections add to this equation.

I can tell you right now that I cleared all of the raiding content minus Yogg 0 in Wrath retail with literally zero keybinds.

Clicker and keyboard turner until Cata. That's about the gold standard for how far we've come since then.

[Bigbazz]

Are you sure Fury warrior was a good example?

Did they massively overhaul how armor penetration worked midway through the expansion or something, because Fury warrior as a class only got buffed from 3.0 to 3.3.5.
I also don't remember Fury warrior being all that good in 3.0 Naxx, but I also didn't pay too much attention.

Fury had a bunch of fixes to Deep Wounds which massively reduced deep wounds damage, they also had the Titan Grip penalty change from a hit debuff you could outgear with ease to a 10% damage penalty. They got buffed too later on with BT cooldown and some small buffs but overall Fury would be in a similar place damage wise to what it was in 2008, maybe a little behind (but the numbers don't show that). ArP got buffed in Ulduar and then nerfed slightly in TOTC, so it's slightly stronger now than it was in 3.0 but it's not particularly significant given the limited amount of it available.

But yes Fury was one of the best dps in the game on ST and Cleave in 3.0 before getting dumped into the ground for Ulduar. Many other clases got buffed way way more during WOTLK, like Enhancement who went all the way to 3.3 before getting Fire Nova, which is perhaps their best ability.

[Hctaz]

Fury had a bunch of fixes to Deep Wounds which massively reduced deep wounds damage, they also had the Titan Grip penalty change from a hit debuff you could outgear with ease to a 10% damage penalty. They got buffed too later on with BT cooldown and some small buffs but overall Fury would be in a similar place damage wise to what it was in 2008, maybe a little behind (but the numbers don't show that). ArP got buffed in Ulduar and then nerfed slightly in TOTC, so it's slightly stronger now than it was in 3.0 but it's not particularly significant given the limited amount of it available.

But yes Fury was one of the best dps in the game on ST and Cleave in 3.0 before getting dumped into the ground for Ulduar. Many other clases got buffed way way more during WOTLK, like Enhancement who went all the way to 3.3 before getting Fire Nova, which is perhaps their best ability.

I can believe it. I wish I had paid attention to literally any other class in Wrath.
It was basically my first time hitting max level and raiding at the time, so I just focused on doing my own class for a while until probably ToC.

The server I played on was also notoriously bad, so I'm sure that also didn't help. Lol

[Bigbazz]

I can believe it. I wish I had paid attention to literally any other class in Wrath.
It was basically my first time hitting max level and raiding at the time, so I just focused on doing my own class for a while until probably ToC.

The server I played on was also notoriously bad, so I'm sure that also didn't help. Lol

I played on a pretty backwater server too, Hellscream EU. But I was playing Warrior, Rogue, Shaman and Hunter back then, raiding mainly on the Warrior and Shaman while doing 10mans/pvp on the other two. I remember switching to my Shaman for some Ulduar progression stuff because it had better single target dps in early Ulduar, with Fury fresh from being nerfed into oblivion.

But you look at the numbers back then, overall DPS was so much lower it's crazy. It's to the extent that Ulduar will also be much easier, I think we won't get representative difficulty until ICC because people are just doing godly dps numbers with the many class changes that happened in 3.3 especially.

[davesurfer]

But you look at the numbers back then, overall DPS was so much lower it's crazy. It's to the extent that Ulduar will also be much easier, I think we won't get representative difficulty until ICC because people are just doing godly dps numbers with the many class changes that happened in 3.3 especially.

You are spot on with this. I was just saying the other day that 3K in Naxx was respectable back in the day. Now you will be low on the meters. On my 74 Boom I was pulling 2K the other day, which seems r3eal high for a poorly geared leveling alt

[Djuntas]

You are spot on with this. I was just saying the other day that 3K in Naxx was respectable back in the day. Now you will be low on the meters. On my 74 Boom I was pulling 2K the other day, which seems r3eal high for a poorly geared leveling alt

Yep, its 100% damage being way to high. THEY ARE KILLING PATCHWERK IN 1 MIN SOON ON 25...level 75 damage numbers was enough to clear the raids or so ^^ I do 7k dps on patchwerk on my warlock and its only a 91% parse...like damn.

[davesurfer]

Yep, its 100% damage being way to high. THEY ARE KILLING PATCHWERK IN 1 MIN SOON ON 25...level 75 damage numbers was enough to clear the raids or so ^^ I do 7k dps on patchwerk on my warlock and its only a 91% parse...like damn.

I keep thinking that a higher hard mode iLvL in Ulduar is a mistake. People are already doing higher DPS now than they were in Ulduar

[Lunareste]

What's the point of even raiding then, might as well just have dungeons drop raid loot if you want inherently zero challenge.

It's almost like some people see raiding as a way to have fun with their friends.

Shocking, I know.

[Kralljin]

I keep thinking that a higher hard mode iLvL in Ulduar is a mistake. People are already doing higher DPS now than they were in Ulduar

This is partially because how (despite the 30% buff) undertuned Naxx is.

If the Fights don't last very long, dps numbers are very high, Unholy DK's with their Gargoyle are a massive culprit, where the Gargoyle does like ~30% of a DK's damage because of CD stacking.
But i think a pre nerf Ulduar will still be quite a challenge, simply because the numbers are far more inflated.

For a comparison, currently Patchwerk has like 17M HP, Pre Nerf XT has like 57M HP.
That's more than thrice the HP and the incoming damage will also be much higher (so you're not getting past this boss with 2-3 healers).

It will not be some insurmountable wall, but you're not going to walk over the Hardmode Bosses in Ulduar like you're walking over Naxx.
The buffed gear will obviously help, but the biggest buff is to Hardmode items, which only a single one drops per kill (nevermind that not every boss has a hardmode), your raid will not be covered in those for a long time.

There's a good reason why Ulduar bosses were nerfed multiple times, because they were, when they first came out, damn overtuned.

[Zodiark]

Bro.... Idk about YOU and your supposed busy life, but to me as a 40+ year old "dad gamer", as you put it. I don't have gobs of time anymore to do as I please and game the same way I did back when Wrath was originally a thing.

As a matter of fact I find retail more suited to casuals nowadays and my schedule than classic by a mile! There are so many more QoL features to SAVE TIME. On top of that gear is super easy to get nowadays in retail. I was half asleep and got my toons to ilvl 250+ only playing a few hours a week here and there. In classic it not only takes much more time to level up which is a real problem if you are an Alt-o-holic like me. (I personally would like to do a case study on people who can and have played this game for 18 years and only play one or two chars and are OK with that).

[davesurfer]

This is partially because how (despite the 30% buff) undertuned Naxx is.

If the Fights don't last very long, dps numbers are very high, Unholy DK's with their Gargoyle are a massive culprit, where the Gargoyle does like ~30% of a DK's damage because of CD stacking.
But i think a pre nerf Ulduar will still be quite a challenge, simply because the numbers are far more inflated.

For a comparison, currently Patchwerk has like 17M HP, Pre Nerf XT has like 57M HP.
That's more than thrice the HP and the incoming damage will also be much higher (so you're not getting past this boss with 2-3 healers).

It will not be some insurmountable wall, but you're not going to walk over the Hardmode Bosses in Ulduar like you're walking over Naxx.
The buffed gear will obviously help, but the biggest buff is to Hardmode items, which only a single one drops per kill (nevermind that not every boss has a hardmode), your raid will not be covered in those for a long time.

There's a good reason why Ulduar bosses were nerfed multiple times, because they were, when they first came out, damn overtuned.

I really hope you are right!

[Konteil]

my tiny irrelevant guild has naxx on farm already. only one that held us up for first 2 weeks was rauz and we pug in for 25 man cause we dont have enough members yet to field a 25 man team. the buff is fine.

[Battlebeard]

Why don't you just find a guild. I don't get why people put themselves through this torture and end up doing 6 hour Naxx runs with 25 people who have no clue what day it is and then they complain about sticking to a schedule or finding a guild, when a guild will clear all of T7 in like 2 hours flat, not just Naxx. It boggles my mind why people do this, I would literally quit the game if I had to pug to raid.



And here is also the issue. It looks like you're a new player that hasn't done any research. Your character has massive red flags, things you can fix yourself.

1. It appears you're a combat rogue, using slow weapons in the offhand is a big no-no due to the combat potency talent. This is combat Rogue basics, you need a fast offhand. As soon as I see that weapon in the offhand I think you're going to be a problem in the raid. If you want a suitable easy to get offhand weapon, Librarians Paper-Cutter.

2. I'm assuming no gems/enchants. You need enchants on all items, at least premium TBC ones or budget WOTLK ones and WOTLK blue quality gems, 16 hit gems are cheap.

3. Helmet with a meta socket, you lack one and you need one.

4. Quite frankly I'd expect you have farmed more dungeons, picked up more BOE's, more rep exalted items.



This is what I expect from you if I'm inviting you to a Naxx raid, all of this is doable without touching any raids by questing, crafting and doing dungeons.

Gear Link

Talents

Depending on your professions you can get further optimisations easily. If you're not at least close to this you're asking to be carried. None of this is expensive or the best available, just the bare minimum effort.

My life doesn't allow me to raid the same day a week two weeks in a row, I work very, very irregular hours. Guildraiding is absolutely impossible.

- - - Updated - - -

What's the point of even raiding then, might as well just have dungeons drop raid loot if you want inherently zero challenge.

To have this thing called FUN. I don't see any fun in challenge, I need no challenge. I just wanna do something in a group together, preferably easy stuff. Just chill, have a good time.

- - - Updated - - -

Naxx10 is even easier then MC was. A group that wipes to Noth wouldnt made it pass Lucifron in MC. Even Shazzrah was harder then this version of 4Horseman where the only thing required is for melee to take a nap away from Zeliek. Your GS might be low, but it's the "inspect at fountain" that would make any Raid Leader drop you.
Helm without a meta, no crafted gear, no exalted gear, no tier gear, not even Naxx10 gear ....

No way, I've tried Naxx10 with a group of new dinged, blue/green geared, we couldn't do a single boss.

But you could clear Molten Core with 30 new dinged, without any problem, and if you went full 40man, it was the easiest we ever, ever seen.