Do you think Sylvanas was a good character for "female empowerment"?

[chrisisvacant]

Well, it was either to kill her off or to make her forever a "villain NPC" like Arthas to be killed later or find something to whitewash her of all her sins. They decided to make her too retarded to stand proper trial.

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And based on what they arent true? Blizz was really putting in effort to humanize her as much as possible.

You're adding a LOT of your own conjecture to "humanize her as much as possible." No matter what, the character deserves some sort of resolution. It never made sense to send her off to pasture like this, the story itself didn't fit together and they have still never really explained why this story even happened (as in, why did she even jump off ICC? Just fucking bizarre).

So for the fans of the lore and the integrity of the story, the character deserved to be brought back to the beginning - her origin, her motivations, and on. And it just so happens that large swathes of her story are things humans can relate to or even admire to some degree.

But feel bad? No. Over and over, important characters are seen giving measured responses that are true to the ideals that both factions stand for (honor, etc). There's also some who want extremely harsh revenge. And the only they can do that isn't corny af is to send her off to purgatory for a decent while if not forever.

[VladlTutushkin]

You're adding a LOT of your own conjecture to "humanize her as much as possible." No matter what, the character deserves some sort of resolution. It never made sense to send her off to pasture like this, the story itself didn't fit together and they have still never really explained why this story even happened (as in, why did she even jump off ICC? Just fucking bizarre).

So for the fans of the lore and the integrity of the story, the character deserved to be brought back to the beginning - her origin, her motivations, and on. And it just so happens that large swathes of her story are things humans can relate to or even admire to some degree.

But feel bad? No. Over and over, important characters are seen giving measured responses that are true to the ideals that both factions stand for (honor, etc). There's also some who want extremely harsh revenge. And the only they can do that isn't corny af is to send her off to purgatory for a decent while if not forever.

Why not kill her though? We literally murdered people into paste for less.

Arthas ended up as a soul-fart and faded away, Brown Garry blew up from rage and so on and so forth.

Sole reason she was not AT LEAST killed and sent to Afterlife as proper soul is to keep the door open for her “heroic return” down the line.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Why not kill her though? We literally murdered people into paste for less.

Arthas ended up as a soul-fart and faded away, Brown Garry blew up from rage and so on and so forth.

Sole reason she was not AT LEAST killed and sent to Afterlife as proper soul is to keep the door open for her “heroic return” down the line.

I agree with Sylvanas on this one point: killing her would have been a mercy. Spending the next thousand years in hell tracking down and rescuing every soul she damned is a much harsher sentence. And even then, she's not necessarily done. Tyrande said this was to start with. She gets to do all of this not even knowing what's next on Tyrande's list.

[Yarathir]

I agree with Sylvanas on this one point: killing her would have been a mercy. Spending the next thousand years in hell tracking down and rescuing every soul she damned is a much harsher sentence. And even then, she's not necessarily done. Tyrande said this was to start with. She gets to do all of this not even knowing what's next on Tyrande's list.

she'll be back before the next expansion dude

[Raisei]

I agree with Sylvanas on this one point: killing her would have been a mercy. Spending the next thousand years in hell tracking down and rescuing every soul she damned is a much harsher sentence. And even then, she's not necessarily done. Tyrande said this was to start with. She gets to do all of this not even knowing what's next on Tyrande's list.

One of the souls she recues will have crucial information on whatever is going on on Azeroth at the time and thus she will bring that intel to us and her sentence will be commuted. Then she will save Anduin's live and bamm she is free again. Probably with Nathanos by her side, so she can live happily ever after.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

she'll be back before the next expansion dude

One of the souls she recues will have crucial information on whatever is going on on Azeroth at the time and thus she will bring that intel to us and her sentence will be commuted. Then she will save Anduin's live and bamm she is free again. Probably with Nathanos by her side, so she can live happily ever after.

If that happens, I will agree they screwed up. But I don't expect it. I think Anduin will be back, but Sylvanas will stay in the Maw for many years. Just my prediction. Maybe we can necro this old thread when we know who was right and wrong?

[VladlTutushkin]

she'll be back before the next expansion dude

I’d say in 2-3.

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If that happens, I will agree they screwed up. But I don't expect it. I think Anduin will be back, but Sylvanas will stay in the Maw for many years. Just my prediction. Maybe we can necro this old thread when we know who was right and wrong?

Dont get too cocky there, people also were just as confident that she will end up dead by the end of SL.

[sam86]

pre-BFA/SL bullshit? definite yes
After zooval shoved our a88 and inserted fanfiction Danasur in-wow? no, entire story got fucked so hard for 1 guy fantasy

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I’d say in 2-3.

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Dont get too cocky there, people also were just as confident that she will end up dead by the end of SL.

Nah, not cocky. I am wrong sometimes. Lots of times lol. But if we were buying squares for the office pool, I would put my money on the one where Blizz keeps her on the sidelines for many years. Time will tell.

[Myradin]

Yas in, why did she even jump off ICC? Just fucking bizarre

If I was a zombie and just gotten revenge on the guy who zombified me, I'd probably not want to keep being a zombie at that point either. I'd had my revenge. Time to move onto the afterlife instead of suffering for all eternity (or until whatever magic exists stops animating me i suppose).

In the orignal telling, she didn't realize a bad afterlife awaited her. And in the new version it was all a deceit by Zovaal.

[Raisei]

If that happens, I will agree they screwed up. But I don't expect it. I think Anduin will be back, but Sylvanas will stay in the Maw for many years. Just my prediction. Maybe we can necro this old thread when we know who was right and wrong?

There is also the point that killing Sylvanas wouldn't have actually stood in the way of her being forced into civil service in the Maw. Pelagos could have send her down there anyway. Or she could have served the Shadowlands as a battery in Revendreth for a few millenia.

The only thing she could not have done, is return to Azeroth. So in essence we already know that she will return. The when is a question yes, but I doubt Danuser will leave his Queen down there for long.

But I also do not even understand what she means when she says that "death would be a mercy", she knows very well that it is not. That was one of her main motivations in the first place.
She is literally standing in the realm of death and talks as if the realms of death do not exists anymore. How do you write such nonesense and get paid for it... I would really like to know, because that feels like a great job to have.

[VladlTutushkin]

There is also the point that killing Sylvanas wouldn't have actually stood in the way of her being forced into civil service in the Maw. Pelagos could have send her down there anyway. Or she could have served the Shadowlands as a battery in Revendreth for a few millenia.

The only thing she could not have done, is return to Azeroth. So in essence we already know that she will return. The when is a question yes, but I doubt Danuser will leave his Queen down there for long.

But I also do not even understand what she means when she says that "death would be a mercy", she knows very well that it is not. That was one of her main motivations in the first place.
She is literally standing in the realm of death and talks as if the realms of death do not exists anymore. How do you write such nonesense and get paid for it... I would really like to know, because that feels like a great job to have.

Danuser gets 50K green every month, that has to be some cosmic joke.

[Myradin]

There is also the point that killing Sylvanas wouldn't have actually stood in the way of her being forced into civil service in the Maw. Pelagos could have send her down there anyway. Or she could have served the Shadowlands as a battery in Revendreth for a few millenia.

The only thing she could not have done, is return to Azeroth. So in essence we already know that she will return. The when is a question yes, but I doubt Danuser will leave his Queen down there for long.

But I also do not even understand what she means when she says that "death would be a mercy", she knows very well that it is not. That was one of her main motivations in the first place.
She is literally standing in the realm of death and talks as if the realms of death do not exists anymore. How do you write such nonesense and get paid for it... I would really like to know, because that feels like a great job to have.

This. She effectively got community service for trying to destroy/enslave the multiverse.

She should have been killed then sent to the maw, then after she's done she can go to revendreth. Or just stay there forever.

[VladlTutushkin]

This. She effectively got community service for trying to destroy/enslave the multiverse.

She should have been killed then sent to the maw, then after she's done she can go to revendreth. Or just stay there forever.

Meanwhile we murdered the shit out of people for stuff like armed uprising, contraband, poaching or piracy, all of which are far lesser crimes than genocide, mass soul-damnation and attempt to take over multiverse.

[DatToffer]

In Warcraft 3, with the story of her emancipation and her revenge over the man who defiled her body, definitely.

After that, not really, no.

[OwenBurton]

This. She effectively got community service for trying to destroy/enslave the multiverse.

She should have been killed then sent to the maw, then after she's done she can go to revendreth. Or just stay there forever.

In Warcraft 3, with the story of her emancipation and her revenge over the man who defiled her body, definitely.

After that, not really, no.

Or perhaps she could have returned as a neutral character or something. She did the most harm to Azeroth, after all, destroying Teldrassil and Lordaeron, causing the Fourth War. Perhaps she could atone for her misdeeds on her world, with the people she hurt the most, reconnecting with her sisters and Silvermoon, not some distant afterlife realm - like the death knights did during the War against the Lich King.

[loras]

Meanwhile we murdered the shit out of people for stuff like armed uprising, contraband, poaching or piracy, all of which are far lesser crimes than genocide, mass soul-damnation and attempt to take over multiverse.

Also don't forget the gathering of phat bear asses, for the crime of a bear having a phat ass

[VladlTutushkin]

Or perhaps she could have returned as a neutral character or something. She did the most harm to Azeroth, after all, destroying Teldrassil and Lordaeron, causing the Fourth War. Perhaps she could atone for her misdeeds on her world, with the people she hurt the most, reconnecting with her sisters and Silvermoon, not some distant afterlife realm - like the death knights did during the War against the Lich King.

Her getting to reconnect with her family is not an “atonement”, its a reward.

[Myradin]

Or perhaps she could have returned as a neutral character or something. She did the most harm to Azeroth, after all, destroying Teldrassil and Lordaeron, causing the Fourth War. Perhaps she could atone for her misdeeds on her world, with the people she hurt the most, reconnecting with her sisters and Silvermoon, not some distant afterlife realm - like the death knights did during the War against the Lich King.

Why should Sylvanas get a chance at redemption when so many others didn't?

The DK's crimes are actually rather small. They attacked the Scarlets, a group hostile to all playable factions. Then attacked Light's Hope where they swapped sides.

[VladlTutushkin]

Why should Sylvanas get a chance at redemption when so many others didn't?

The DK's crimes are actually rather small. They attacked the Scarlets, a group hostile to all playable factions. Then attacked Light's Hope where they swapped sides.

Also unlike Sylvanas they were actually under hard mind control and couldnt be held responsible for their actions under Lich King while Sylvanas had her free will, she just was "mentally retarded" or something.