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  1. #81
    Haven’t they been saying they haven’t forgotten about Boomkins for the last 4 xpacs?

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    People that are worried that controller support will make the game worse just don't know better. You can do a lot of things with a controller.
    BS there is just so much you can do with a controller, for lvling it might be fine, for most other things? not so much


    "There are still plans to allow players to transmog white and gray quality items, but there is still tech work to be done."
    lol wonder what "tech" need to develop to allows that XD

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by FAILoZOFF View Post
    BS there is just so much you can do with a controller, for lvling it might be fine, for most other things? not so much


    "There are still plans to allow players to transmog white and gray quality items, but there is still tech work to be done."
    lol wonder what "tech" need to develop to allows that XD
    In FFXIV you can raid with a controller and the game has 20-30 skills you have to press lmao. People who say that just haven't tried.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    In FFXIV you can raid with a controller and the game has 20-30 skills you have to press lmao. People who say that just haven't tried.
    From what I’ve heard, it also doesn’t have an emphasis on min/max damage to kill a boss, and is a slower pace than WoW, which assists console style play in an mmo.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    From what I’ve heard, it also doesn’t have an emphasis on min/max damage to kill a boss, and is a slower pace than WoW, which assists console style play in an mmo.
    Sure, won't help with the world first race maybe. You'll be able to clear all the other difficulties and mythic eventually though.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    In FFXIV you can raid with a controller and the game has 20-30 skills you have to press lmao. People who say that just haven't tried.
    somehow i can't imagine healing with controller, tanking/dpsing... scuffed a bit but yeah

  7. #87
    Retail wow works like this: Log in and complete your daily chores so you can unlock a thing/skin. Then you do the combat gameplay in a dungeon/raid so you can get an item that has a bigger number. Then you do the exact same thing the next day. Seems to me that dragon riding has no place in that game. Every player wants to finish the content as quickly as possible but now you have to manually "walk" there. That's not gonna get old after a year for sure.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by FAILoZOFF View Post
    somehow i can't imagine healing with controller, tanking/dpsing... scuffed a bit but yeah
    Every piece of content, from easiest to most challenging (mythic end raid boss lvl) was cleared by people using only controllers.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by FAILoZOFF View Post
    somehow i can't imagine healing with controller, tanking/dpsing... scuffed a bit but yeah
    While playing FF on my ps4 I found tanking to be really easy using controller but healing way harder than it was when I use a keyboard.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by tomten View Post
    Exactly everyone (ofc you could be the exception) that has said they disliked it, hated it, it's this or that, whatever?
    They have never tried it, they haven't had beta and they havent had the system maxed out. Every. Single. Time.

    So maybe you are different but I doubt it. Dragonriding will be their biggest success since sliced bread and it will be universally loved by pretty much everyone except you and some other guy, which is fine. You do you.
    Prove it. Unless you have talked to every single person who has tried it, you cannot say that at all This is massive projection of your opinion living in fantasy land. Your sources: dude trust me.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    Even then, FFXIV has controller support since it's on consoles too, and the rotations are much longer with more abilities to push than WoW.

    People that are worried that controller support will make the game worse just don't know better. You can do a lot of things with a controller.
    WoW, as of the latest prepatch, also has controller support

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    Sure, won't help with the world first race maybe. You'll be able to clear all the other difficulties and mythic eventually though.
    Maybe. The point is that in FF you have time to cycle thru abilities and pick things without having to worry about enrage timers or tight dps mechanics.
    WoW is designed differently, usually requiring faster timing and dps requirements than FF.

    I’m not discussing which is better design, or stating one is worse than the other. Just the design is different between the 2 games; and WoW’s design is probably not friendly for a controller layout at its current encounter pacing. At least for the average player. I’m well aware there are videos of people playing with guitar hero controllers and such.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomten View Post
    On the flying thing, I doubt anyone will miss it after having lvled up dragonriding just a little bit.
    I would miss it. A lot,actually. For the simple reason that we can't hover in place without drifting toward the ground. Or fly upside-down.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    Maybe. The point is that in FF you have time to cycle thru abilities and pick things without having to worry about enrage timers or tight dps mechanics.
    That's not true at all. There's plenty of fights in FF that have dps checks.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roflfaceroll View Post
    I don't see what is so hard to understand. I find it stupid and lazy to take general class spells such as silences/interrupts and make them into talents just to make the talent trees appear more complex.

    They didn't have to do that at all. I can also tell you haven't played classic because these trees are nothing at all like them. Classic allowed for unique designs like hybrid specs. This new designs doesn't do that at all.

    The playerbase doesn't largely corroberate that it is great. They say it is better than the trash pick 1 of 3, but many others have notice and stated the same issues with the talent design as I have.

    Also I bought shadowlands under the impression that it was gonna follow along with the wrath arthas storyline. I actually didn't even pay money for it. I bought shadowlands with in-game gold that I traded for wowtokens. It was a disappointment as well. I only kept my sub active for classic not because of shadowlands. Activision blizzard obviously knew their direction with retail wasn't working when classic was more successful than retail. Thats why they are at least trying to make these changes to make it "appear" like classic.

    By what accounts do you mean I should "like" dragonflight? They get a /golfclap for at least attempting to fix the talent trees, but other than that to me it doesn't seem better. DF comes across as an anime filler episode to me. Oh no watch out for the primal dragons. Their evil intentions are caused by their insecurities of their small arms.

    Most of the changes are novelty at best. The story is meh, the talents are meh, the new hero class is disappointing, the forced UI changes are terrible(they should have at least left the option to not use it don't say there is a classic option when all it does is move your character box to the upper left.) , Profession system taken from FFXIV, dragongliding novelty. Nothing that screams hey play this cause it is gonna be fun.

    If you wanna see or feel the difference of how the older designed worked pulling players in? Then go try playing just the opening cinematics of vanilla, tbc or wrath compared to DF. You don't even have to try playing classic. The classic versions were built on a story and a dream to turn it into a game which made it feel good. This new design is made to try and hook players back for money. The immersion of mysticism and escapism into a different world is no longer there.
    I mean, I have played Classic. It's simply not fun or good past the nostalgia. These 'hybrid' specs you talk about were all pretty objectively horrible except for maybe one or two - which, okay, granted, it's cool that one or two classes had that. But by all other measures it was bad. The talents were uninteresting percentile increases. From a purely objective point of view, they were less complex than what DF introduced. In classic, I'm simply not excited to hit that next level because I'm gonna get something like '2% more frost damage'. Is that fun and interesting to you? I want my class to be complex and I want to shape how I play it based on what I take. In classic, you play your class the same way every time, except you have some percentages that coax you to press a different button. Sometimes.

    Classic has it's merits, but it's absolutely not a complex game, by any means. It's not a hard game. It's not meant to be. It's supposed to be a trip down memory lane, and it sells. DF is emulating it to some degree with the talents, but keeping complexity into the equation, other than the gimmicky 'you can spec into all 3! It'll be trash but at least you can do it'.
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Dude A: "lol well if you weren't such a Blizzard Shill™ you'd believe my source!"
    Dude B: ::posts the Webster Dictionary definition of the word 'objective' followed by a 700-word essay about how the WoW community is doomed::
    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPrincess View Post
    shut up idiot

  16. #96
    This expansion feels very classic Warcraft.
    I don't think we played the same game

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Koollan View Post
    I mean, I have played Classic. It's simply not fun or good past the nostalgia. These 'hybrid' specs you talk about were all pretty objectively horrible except for maybe one or two - which, okay, granted, it's cool that one or two classes had that. But by all other measures it was bad. The talents were uninteresting percentile increases. From a purely objective point of view, they were less complex than what DF introduced. In classic, I'm simply not excited to hit that next level because I'm gonna get something like '2% more frost damage'. Is that fun and interesting to you? I want my class to be complex and I want to shape how I play it based on what I take. In classic, you play your class the same way every time, except you have some percentages that coax you to press a different button. Sometimes.

    Classic has it's merits, but it's absolutely not a complex game, by any means. It's not a hard game. It's not meant to be. It's supposed to be a trip down memory lane, and it sells. DF is emulating it to some degree with the talents, but keeping complexity into the equation, other than the gimmicky 'you can spec into all 3! It'll be trash but at least you can do it'.
    There is obviously a reason DF is emulating it. Because talent design is overall better. The percentages really aren't different. The only reason they made some of them higher is because of the level squish they did to 60. To emulate classic.

    There were more than just 2 hybrid specs that were good as well. Many got nerfed before they got big in the game. You probably didn't even know this but spellhance which is playable in classic now got nerfed real quick back in original wrath. Pissed me right off. Something about, "this isn't how we intended enhance to be played", but that is exactly how they designed them every expansion after and WF their only real physical damage output other than regular melee they turned into hot garbage.

    There were more than just 2 hybrid specs and the ability to have the options to theorycraft by mixing and blending not just one, but all three is what made the classic trees better.

    Not everyone is gonna be good at theorycrafting as we can tell from your personal experience, but having the option is better than not having it at all. Instead to substitute that option they just remove half of your general spells like interrupt/silences make a side talent tree with them and let you have the illusion you have more options.

    You claim to want to be able to shape you class to play it the way you want, but say you don't want the option of hybrid blending? That means you want less options. That means you want less complexity. That means you want less spell and attacks to mix and mesh your character to have to play with. The blending of trees gives more options and more complexity.
    Last edited by Roflfaceroll; 2022-11-21 at 12:34 AM.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roflfaceroll View Post
    There is obviously a reason DF is emulating it. Because talent design is overall better. The percentages really aren't different. The only reason they made some of them higher is because of the level squish they did to 60. To emulate classic.

    There were more than just 2 hybrid specs that were good as well. Many got nerfed before they got big in the game. You probably didn't even know this but spellhance which is playable in classic now got nerfed real quick back in original wrath. Pissed me right off. Something about, "this isn't how we intended enhance to be played", but that is exactly how they designed them every expansion after and WF their only real physical damage output other than regular melee they turned into hot garbage.

    There were more than just 2 hybrid specs and the ability to have the options to theorycraft by mixing and blending not just one, but all three is what made the classic trees better.

    Not everyone is gonna be good at theorycrafting as we can tell from your personal experience, but having the option is better than not having it at all. Instead to substitute that option they just remove half of your general spells like interrupt/silences make a side talent tree with them and let you have the illusion you have more options.

    You claim to want to be able to shape you class to play it the way you want, but say you don't want the option of hybrid blending? That means you want less options. That means you want less complexity. That means you want less spell and attacks to mix and mesh your character to have to play with. The blending of trees gives more options and more complexity.
    I can see your point from this angle, so I don't discount that. I think I have one issue with hybrid specs in general, though - that, in truth, with how specs have been structured since the beginning of Legion, would simply not work.

    Is that generally a bad thing? Honestly, probably. But with what we have, what we got is the best outcome. The specs simply do not have cross-compatibility anymore due to the interconnectivity of everything within one specialization. It would make hybrids either useless or broken, with no in between.

    Again, is this a bad thing? Probably. The current amount of theorycrafting isn't to what it used to be. Though, for what we got in the Modern version of the game with how classes play, this I believe is the best option.

    Do you think playing a frost mage with hot streak would feel intuitive? Or, perhaps, getting instead Dreadstalker procs in the middle of your building phase as an Aff warlock? Perhaps being forced to weave Rapid Fire on your Survival hunter in the middle of your Mongoose Bite building would be preferable due to the DPS increase? It would make many specs next to impossible to play since they're all so incredibly different now.

    Regardless, what you say has a lot of merit and I understand why the hybrid nature of the old trees was valid. I do believe that it was necessary to get rid of it for the current game design, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Dude A: "lol well if you weren't such a Blizzard Shill™ you'd believe my source!"
    Dude B: ::posts the Webster Dictionary definition of the word 'objective' followed by a 700-word essay about how the WoW community is doomed::
    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPrincess View Post
    shut up idiot

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Koollan View Post
    I can see your point from this angle, so I don't discount that. I think I have one issue with hybrid specs in general, though - that, in truth, with how specs have been structured since the beginning of Legion, would simply not work.

    Is that generally a bad thing? Honestly, probably. But with what we have, what we got is the best outcome. The specs simply do not have cross-compatibility anymore due to the interconnectivity of everything within one specialization. It would make hybrids either useless or broken, with no in between.

    Again, is this a bad thing? Probably. The current amount of theorycrafting isn't to what it used to be. Though, for what we got in the Modern version of the game with how classes play, this I believe is the best option.

    Do you think playing a frost mage with hot streak would feel intuitive? Or, perhaps, getting instead Dreadstalker procs in the middle of your building phase as an Aff warlock? Perhaps being forced to weave Rapid Fire on your Survival hunter in the middle of your Mongoose Bite building would be preferable due to the DPS increase? It would make many specs next to impossible to play since they're all so incredibly different now.

    Regardless, what you say has a lot of merit and I understand why the hybrid nature of the old trees was valid. I do believe that it was necessary to get rid of it for the current game design, though.
    I get what you mean about the changes in the spell and spec designs, but that is the fun part of theorycrafting. For example survival may not benefit from rapid fire anymore, but beast mastery talents would be useful. For frost mage hotstreak may not be that useful unless flamestrike was open to all trees, then they could weave it into aoe.

    Theorycrafting is about finding something fun or powerful to play that no one else thought of. Like the 1sec cd revenge tank hybrid spec for pvp or a holyshock dps hybrid paladin made with the healing tree for sp boosts.

    When theorycrafting it is understood that you are giving up what is expected to discover a new way of playing, not just what activision blizzard wants you to play. For example the fiery with flame gauntlets fury warrior build that was recently discovered and hotfixed in wotlk classic(this isn't a hybrid build but shows that theorycrafting is still happening)which sucks for warriors in wotlk at this time. Their dps with and without bis is terrible until later in the xpac, but having the options to discover these new ways to play showed that even a game 15 years old with the old style still has many options.

    That's a big reason I don't like the new style of trees. Yes it is better than the pick 1 of 3, but being limited to only those trees still makes it dull. Like I mentioned before, maybe they will fix this down the line, but the design is meh. The side talent tree made from what use to be your general spells is dumb. They should have just left that part out.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roflfaceroll View Post
    I get what you mean about the changes in the spell and spec designs, but that is the fun part of theorycrafting. For example survival may not benefit from rapid fire anymore, but beast mastery talents would be useful. For frost mage hotstreak may not be that useful unless flamestrike was open to all trees, then they could weave it into aoe.

    Theorycrafting is about finding something fun or powerful to play that no one else thought of. Like the 1sec cd revenge tank hybrid spec for pvp or a holyshock dps hybrid paladin made with the healing tree for sp boosts.

    When theorycrafting it is understood that you are giving up what is expected to discover a new way of playing, not just what activision blizzard wants you to play. For example the fiery with flame gauntlets fury warrior build that was recently discovered and hotfixed in wotlk classic(this isn't a hybrid build but shows that theorycrafting is still happening)which sucks for warriors in wotlk at this time. Their dps with and without bis is terrible until later in the xpac, but having the options to discover these new ways to play showed that even a game 15 years old with the old style still has many options.

    That's a big reason I don't like the new style of trees. Yes it is better than the pick 1 of 3, but being limited to only those trees still makes it dull. Like I mentioned before, maybe they will fix this down the line, but the design is meh. The side talent tree made from what use to be your general spells is dumb. They should have just left that part out.
    It's understandable that going further with the 'Classic-esque' design of the trees would've probably been a better boon with allowing cross-specialization talents. Theorycrafting would be through the roof because, let's be honest, it would be honestly overpowered. Which brings me to my current conclusion.

    The class design as it stands would just be so incredibly broken with cross-specialization trees, considering the gigantic tools that every single spec gets. In the end, you'll have one, maybe two, viable specs for every single class, which combine all of the most powerful traits from two different specs. I think keeping the specs separate still gives specializations their identity. At least, with the current iteration of talents and class design.

    In truth, maybe these things could change? Perhaps class design will become more subdued over time and the power will be shifted. Time will tell.
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Dude A: "lol well if you weren't such a Blizzard Shill™ you'd believe my source!"
    Dude B: ::posts the Webster Dictionary definition of the word 'objective' followed by a 700-word essay about how the WoW community is doomed::
    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPrincess View Post
    shut up idiot

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