Darnassus is gone and it still has no "replacement"

[Lahis]

Not a chance. There is no way they'll put a racial capital in the middle of an expansion zone.

Why not? Racial capitals serve no functional purpose, why it couldn't be where it makes a good story?

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AThat it will arrive in the middle of the expansion and we will only use it for half an expansion and then never again?

How is that any different to other capitals? None of them are ever used to begin with. Atleast Neo Darnassus would receive half of an expansion's worth of relevancy.

[Lolites]

They actually wrote that? How the hell do they think giving back land is "reparations"?

they didnt actualy wrote its reparations, there are no reparations bcs horde did not loose, nobody did, they signed agreement, armistice
no loosing side = no winning side = no reparations

and giving back land (or anything) which as far as we know WASNT part of the deal is gesture of good will, and quite common

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perpetrator herself got out of it all with slap on the wrist

"you will spend unspecified time in LITERALL HELL" is hardly slap on the wrist...
yet slap on the wrist is still worse punishment than what alliance characters get when they commit warcrimes or such... usualy they get promoted like Jaina

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The night elves are still homeless in Stormwind even after the timeskip.

have undead returned to UC from orgrimmar in DF?

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Missing a place is just a feature when it comes to alliance, Gnomes and Worgen has been missing a place for a long time.

and troll, and maghar... goblin also lost their home but they outright build new "city" instead
though arguably trolls retake their isles (not their home that is in middle of ocean), at the same time gnomes retake theirs, they cant properly use it yet due to radiation i believe, but new gnomes start there, so they do have the place...

and Maghar literaly CANT EVER return home...

[Kilpi]

Well things rarely get fixed in the game to be honest, not just when it comes to infrastructure, but people aswell.

You can make a long list of faction leaders, that have died and not be replaced, of places being destroyed or damaged and then never talked or mentioned again, and about subfactions that are either important or critically changed yet forgotten at the way side right after the focus is away from them.

So ofcourse Darnassus, Gilneas and Theramore does not have a replacement. It would be odd if they did anything about it.

This is one of the reasons why I think WoW would've worked better if it never expanded outside the current continents (maybe can have Outland since it was already big part of the lore previously) and Northrend, since it's required for a Lich King related stuff. But after WotLK the game should've just keep updating old zones and maybe add occational new zones to EK and Kalimdor (like Gilneas, Mount Hyjal), but still have 90% of stuff happen in the zones we've had since Vanilla. This way it wouldn't expand too large to have million zones and million characters that are just forgotten about. Places and zones could've been updated when they were part of something new (like what they did with Darkshore and Arathi Highlands) complete world revamps wouldn't even be needed.

[Flurryfang]

This is one of the reasons why I think WoW would've worked better if it never expanded outside the current continents (maybe can have Outland since it was already big part of the lore previously) and Northrend, since it's required for a Lich King related stuff. But after WotLK the game should've just keep updating old zones and maybe add occational new zones to EK and Kalimdor (like Gilneas, Mount Hyjal), but still have 90% of stuff happen in the zones we've had since Vanilla. This way it wouldn't expand too large to have million zones and million characters that are just forgotten about. Places and zones could've been updated when they were part of something new (like what they did with Darkshore and Arathi Highlands) complete world revamps wouldn't even be needed.

Ohhh my friend, how i so much agree with you.

One of my biggest pains with WoW is that it did something amazing back in Cata, updating and playing with old zones, and then never did that again. That is such a huge mistake, especially after they came up with Chromie time.

You can make some amazing story telling in WoW, if you are willing to let the world change around the player, and you can make some really great gameplay when you set new content inside of these changing enviroments.

The cata rework made the world feel ALIVE! Things we had done in Vanilla, had an reaction. Fights we had fought or things we had taken, became things in the past where new strongholds had been taken and new enemies had risen up. Just think what they could do, if they did this to Outland and Northrend.

Imagine an Outland in the current age, without illidan, the naga and Keal'thas. How amazing would it be to see the dreanei take back part of the world, to see how the population fight to heal the land and keep it alive, the stories about uncovering what lies in Oshu'gun and how life can be for the fel orcs now that they are without much purpose anymore.
Or a story about Northrend without the Lich King, with all the changes that would make.

There are so many good and interesting stories right there, ready to be told. Instead of taking a huge leap of faith and a ton of chances with new worlds like the Shadowlands or Dragon Isles, doing a return to Outland or Northrend would nearly be a sure win, especially since the we now have a way to not lose the old world when it is updated, with both Chromie time and Classic servers.

[Aresk]

yet slap on the wrist is still worse punishment than what alliance characters get when they commit warcrimes or such... usualy they get promoted like Jaina

and troll, and maghar... goblin also lost their home but they outright build new "city" instead
though arguably trolls retake their isles (not their home that is in middle of ocean), at the same time gnomes retake theirs, they cant properly use it yet due to radiation i believe, but new gnomes start there, so they do have the place...

and Maghar literaly CANT EVER return home...

What warcrime did Jaina commit that earned her a promotion, and what promotion did she receive?

Darkspear Trolls have the Echo Isles (their original home was Stranglethorn Vale, which is as much as the middle of the ocean as any other continent). The following is the current primary settlements for the various races.

Human - Stormwind
Dwarf - Ironforge
Night Elf - None (new home teased at end of SL)
Gnome - Gnomeregan (partially reclaimed)*
Draenei - Exodar
Worgen - None(return teased at end of SL)
Void Elf - Telogrus Rift**
Lightforged Draenei - The Vindicaar**
Dark Iron Dwarf - Shadowforge City*
Kul Tiran - Kul Tiras
Mechagnome - Mechagon*
Pandaren - Wandering Isle
Dracthyr - None/TBD
Orc - Orgrimmar
Undead - Lordaeron City (partially reclaimed)*
Tauren - Thunder Bluff
Darkspear - Echo Isles*
Blood Elf - Silvermoon City
Goblin - Bilgewater Harbor
Nightborne - Suramar City*
Highmountain Tauren - Thunder Totem
Mag'har - None
Zandalari Troll - Dazar'alor
Vulpera - Vulpera Hideaway**

* designates a place not really usable within the game for RP events due to hostiles/lack of updates/etc.
** designates a place that only loosely fits the designation of "settlement"

There's a pretty decent parity. Lordaeron City and Gnomeregan even out the "cities unsafe for habitation below the surface" sections. Dark Iron Dwarves and Mag'har Orcs have to share the home of their non-allied race counterpart. Vulpera Hideaway has basically nothing there, but at least non-vulpera can get there if the group wants to set up an RP event, unlike Telogrus Rift and non-void elves. While Worgen and Night Elf remain unhoused, they've both had new homes teased.

Also, for perspective, Teldrassil was planted three years before Classic. Assuming it grew instantly and Darnassus was built shortly thereafter, the city was only eleven years old when it was destroyed, with Gilneans living there for five of those eleven years. While I do not want to downplay the tragedy of those lost there, and the loss of one's home is devastating regardless of how long one has been living there, the city itself wasn't some ancient marvel.

[Xilurm]

Why not? Racial capitals serve no functional purpose, why it couldn't be where it makes a good story?

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How is that any different to other capitals? None of them are ever used to begin with. Atleast Neo Darnassus would receive half of an expansion's worth of relevancy.

How are new players going to access it?

[Lahis]

How are new players going to access it?

They don't need to. New players start in Exile's Reach, and Stormwind is the only functional Alliance city in the game.

[Xilurm]

They don't need to. New players start in Exile's Reach, and Stormwind is the only functional Alliance city in the game.

But what in the case of a world revamp?

[Lahis]

But what in the case of a world revamp?

No revamp is happening.

Besides, the last world revamp consolidated all faction stuff into Stormwind and Orgrimmar. Why would they waste resources in spreading that stuff around again?

[Flurryfang]

But what in the case of a world revamp?

Even with a world revamp, it would not really change anything. Each faction really only needs 1 primary faction hub and Exile's Reach works no matter how the world looks.

Unless you make the different faction homes important for functional reasons (Having unique features, that is worth going after) then there is really no reason to "waste" work on them. Just look at Classic for a good example, outside of Orgrimmar and Stormwind/Ironforge, the other cities are very empty, because why would you be there?

[Jaggler]

Even with a world revamp, it would not really change anything. Each faction really only needs 1 primary faction hub and Exile's Reach works no matter how the world looks.

Unless you make the different faction homes important for functional reasons (Having unique features, that is worth going after) then there is really no reason to "waste" work on them. Just look at Classic for a good example, outside of Orgrimmar and Stormwind/Ironforge, the other cities are very empty, because why would you be there?

Also. Portal are a thing. Just put one to New-Drassil in Stormwind, but don't allow leaving the city until they are appropriate level. That should be a non-issue.

[Raisei]

"you will spend unspecified time in LITERALL HELL" is hardly slap on the wrist...
yet slap on the wrist is still worse punishment than what alliance characters get when they commit warcrimes or such... usualy they get promoted like Jaina

Bullshit. It is only hell if you are a soul tortured in Torghast. For Sylvanas it is no different then walking around in any other place. Just like it was a mere questing area for us. Plus, she literally made her home in a plague infested ruin full of rotting zombies. I would hazard a guess that the Maw at least smells more pleasant then that. Also, her body is undead. She feels no cold, needs no sleep, no food, no oxygen, she doesn't even feel pain. Heck she could even discard the body if she needed to and fly around in Banshee form.


The worst thing that threatens her down there by now is boredom from collecting souls. I can somewhat relate to that.

I assume the Warcrime you refer to is the Purge of Dalaran? Where she made sure to teleport every Belf that did not attack her to safety and only killed those that attacked her first? And let us not forget that this was only necessary because the Sunreavers chose to side with a genocidal madman and helped him in aquiring a new WMD after he had used the last one they created to flatten a city. The only reason Pandaria is not a Sha-infested wasteland right now is that Anduin stopped the crazy Warchief and nearly died doing so.

The massacre during the Purge happened with the sanction of the youngest Windrunner sister, Vereesa, and her Silver Covenant, who wanted revenge for her husband and in some cases were using the opportunity to settle personal grudges. Jaina had no knowledge of this and never sanctioned it. She evicted the Sunreavers from Dalaran because they violated the trust of the Council in them and used the assets of Dalaran to support a genocidal maniac.

have undead returned to UC from orgrimmar in DF?

Why wouldn't they? The Alliance made sure to give them their land back, as thanks for all the murder and plague the Forsaken have brought to the world.

and Maghar literaly CANT EVER return home...

If History had happened as it was supposed to, the Orcs would have destroyed their homeworld anyway and the Mag'har learned nothing from it, they still only exist to go to war, no matter for which reason. Their only desire is slaughter and death. I feel very little sympathy for such a race.

[Shadowferal]

This is one of the reasons why I think WoW would've worked better if it never expanded outside the current continents (maybe can have Outland since it was already big part of the lore previously) and Northrend, since it's required for a Lich King related stuff. But after WotLK the game should've just keep updating old zones and maybe add occational new zones to EK and Kalimdor (like Gilneas, Mount Hyjal), but still have 90% of stuff happen in the zones we've had since Vanilla. This way it wouldn't expand too large to have million zones and million characters that are just forgotten about. Places and zones could've been updated when they were part of something new (like what they did with Darkshore and Arathi Highlands) complete world revamps wouldn't even be needed.

I agree for the most part.
But there were changes that weren't good, such as hordies strafing Astranaar. Despite the small quest to get rid of them they're still there when they should have phased out.
That said, there should have been plenty to do in the old zones. "Karnum's Glade" in Desolace was a nice show in progressive change that should expand incrementally to the nearby sea.
Just one of many changes for the better that could happen...but I wouldn't touch the capital cities. Teldrassil should never have burned. That was pure stupid writing.

[Dancaris]

If History had happened as it was supposed to, the Orcs would have destroyed their homeworld anyway and the Mag'har learned nothing from it, they still only exist to go to war, no matter for which reason. Their only desire is slaughter and death. I feel very little sympathy for such a race.

Your feeling, ye?
Mah'hars lived peacefully in Draenor until some spacegoat wonderwoman came and ravage their lands, turns orcs into light-slaves, killed all who opposed or not escaped. I think that a reasonable hatred toward Light-using races, that surprisingly join Alliance, no?

>The massacre during the Purge happened with the sanction of the youngest Windrunner sister, Vereesa, and her Silver Covenant

So its dont count because its was fun, ye?

>She evicted the Sunreavers from Dalaran because they violated the trust of the Council in them and used the assets of Dalaran to support a genocidal maniac

So why Silver Covenant not evicted then?

[Xilurm]

No revamp is happening.

Besides, the last world revamp consolidated all faction stuff into Stormwind and Orgrimmar. Why would they waste resources in spreading that stuff around again?

Even with a world revamp, it would not really change anything. Each faction really only needs 1 primary faction hub and Exile's Reach works no matter how the world looks.

Unless you make the different faction homes important for functional reasons (Having unique features, that is worth going after) then there is really no reason to "waste" work on them. Just look at Classic for a good example, outside of Orgrimmar and Stormwind/Ironforge, the other cities are very empty, because why would you be there?

Maybe I'm the ones who's wrong for seeking a more immersive experience.

[Flurryfang]

Maybe I'm the ones who's wrong for seeking a more immersive experience.

You are not, cause i am right there with you. But when it comes to development, any production have to give some form of player value and a pretty new or updated city does nothing if it is ignored.

So things have to have a purpose and i believe that city revamps can have great purpose in the game In my opinion, every faction city should be like Bilgewater Harbor, Suramar or Dazar'alor, where they are both functional as cities, but also as quest zones/hubs. If they are made with quests integration in mind, then they can be great cities, that are worth building and also great places to put stories and create content within :=)

[VladlTutushkin]

Your feeling, ye?
Mah'hars lived peacefully in Draenor until some spacegoat wonderwoman came and ravage their lands, turns orcs into light-slaves, killed all who opposed or not escaped. I think that a reasonable hatred toward Light-using races, that surprisingly join Alliance, no?

>The massacre during the Purge happened with the sanction of the youngest Windrunner sister, Vereesa, and her Silver Covenant

So its dont count because its was fun, ye?

>She evicted the Sunreavers from Dalaran because they violated the trust of the Council in them and used the assets of Dalaran to support a genocidal maniac

So why Silver Covenant not evicted then?

Alliance constantly gets shamed for “hating” orcs, but brown orcs apparently allowed to hate space goats because of a space goat FROM ANOTHER TIMELINE.

Also Sunreavers should have known better than to fuck up on that scale.

AND THEN EXPECT JAINA TO FORGIVE THEM AGAIN.

Their idiot leader thought that Garrosh would punish them more severely for disobedience than Jaina, and backstabbed her on purpose as “lesser of two evil”.

Turns out he chose poorly. Maybe, just maybe, he should have stood up to Garrosh instead.

[Raisei]

Your feeling, ye?
Mah'hars lived peacefully in Draenor until some spacegoat wonderwoman came and ravage their lands, turns orcs into light-slaves, killed all who opposed or not escaped. I think that a reasonable hatred toward Light-using races, that surprisingly join Alliance, no?

Lived peacefully, hahahahah. So you choose to ignore that the Orcs enslaved and slaughtered Yrels people and ravaged their lands under Grommash, without ever needing to drink demon blood. Gotcha. Even if Yrel had not been brainwashed by a Naaru, which she was, I find her drive to eradicate the Orcs completely understandable.

So its dont count because its was fun, ye?

It counts. But neither the Silver Covenant nor Vereesa are members of the Alliance. And I am not aware of Vereesa receiving any adoration or advancement for it. It was a civil war amongst Dalaran citizens, of which one side chose to support a murderous madman and the other wanted to stop them from doing that, with some going too far or even committing crimes themselves. But laying it at the Alliances feet or solely at Jainas for that matter, is plain wrong.

So why Silver Covenant not evicted then?

Because they did not choose to support a crazy orc in getting his hands on another WMD? They did what Dalaran is supposed to do: Protect Azeroth from danger. They went too far in some cases, but that is all there is to it. Jaina and Vereesa were in essence fully within their rights to arrest the Sunreavers and that is what Jaina mainly did, she only killed those that attacked her.
Knowing what the Horde had just done to her, the Sunreaver really had it coming.

[geco]

How is that any different to other capitals? None of them are ever used to begin with. Atleast Neo Darnassus would receive half of an expansion's worth of relevancy.

Let's see I explain. Imagine that 10.1 is in "new teldrazzil".
What happens the Horde does not play on 10.1?

Other than that of course. We have to play all 10 to be able to access the city with each character.

[Dancaris]

Lived peacefully, hahahahah. So you choose to ignore that the Orcs enslaved and slaughtered Yrels people and ravaged their lands under Grommash, without ever needing to drink demon blood. Gotcha. Even if Yrel had not been brainwashed by a Naaru, which she was, I find her drive to eradicate the Orcs completely understandable.

30 years of peace was passed, they make a truce, no? And agressor was lightforged, not orcs. So yea, spacegoats are reason mag'hars is now in the Horde. And now they see another lightforged spacegoats that do the same, they following same naaru and look exactly the same. So yea, their mistrust is reasonable and completely understandable.

It was a civil war amongst Dalaran citizens, of which one side chose to support a murderous madman and the other wanted to stop them from doing that, with some going too far or even committing crimes themselves

It can turn backwards, you know? No Sunreaver kills high elf of Covenant before the purge, but again horde team are the bad guys.

Because they did not choose to support a crazy orc in getting his hands on another WMD? They did what Dalaran is supposed to do: Protect Azeroth from danger. They went too far in some cases, but that is all there is to it. Jaina and Vereesa were in essence fully within their rights to arrest the Sunreavers and that is what Jaina mainly did, she only killed those that attacked her.
Knowing what the Horde had just done to her, the Sunreaver really had it coming.

Classic. They do that to themselves? That a perfect victimblaming, you know? waiters and cleaners have nothing to do with one Sunreaver support Garrosh. And even with that - Jaina helped to hide artifact in Darnassus - so she was and will be Alliance. And telling that Silver Covenant is not Alliance is really strange. Same as Sunreavers weren`t Horde? Jokes on you.

They did what Dalaran is supposed to do: Protect Azeroth from danger

Nope, Dalaran was Alliance city with humans and dragon rule human city. With Jaina as leader openly helps Alliance agains the Horde. Or you say overwise?

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Alliance constantly gets shamed for “hating” orcs, but brown orcs apparently allowed to hate space goats because of a space goat FROM ANOTHER TIMELINE.

Also Sunreavers should have known better than to fuck up on that scale.

AND THEN EXPECT JAINA TO FORGIVE THEM AGAIN.

Their idiot leader thought that Garrosh would punish them more severely for disobedience than Jaina, and backstabbed her on purpose as “lesser of two evil”.

Turns out he chose poorly. Maybe, just maybe, he should have stood up to Garrosh instead.

Oh, more victimblaming here. Sunreavers knows nothing aside Aethas and that random elf from Theramore. But if Silver Covenant openly murders civilians and not evicted - so its right thing to do in Dalaran. See the Horde - kill the Horde, ye? And who is the bad guy here?
Same with Mag'hars. Spacegoats attack them, not overwise. Killed, genosided, enslaved and turned into light-zombies.
But hating similar spacegoats that do the same - its bad, yes?