Hopefully the next class….

[Kyphael]

Why would anyone want bard over necromancer or tinker

I want Necromancer as much as Bard, but I don't care for Tinker. They could just make Engineering more engaging and productive in combat like it used to be to achieve the same theme, but that would require making professions meaningful again.

[Triceron]

Going back to classic talent trees and abolishing specs are two very different things. Especially when there are players who want each class to get more specs than they currently have.

Yeah but that's like saying players wanted to have more talent tiers before they retooled the entire system back to a tree. Players only really ask for what they reasonably expect, not some overhaul which could possibly give them more than they could even fathom.

Abolishing specs wouldn't be a far cry from the spec revamps and the gameplay culling they've done over the years, whether we're talking about removing Tank and DPS capabilities from DK specs or completely retooling Survival and Demonology gameplay to fit something completely new. It'd just be a condensing of certain gameplay and opening it back up through customizations and new classes, really. That's what they've done in the past, and it opened up room for new gameplay and classes.

I think if we go down this road there's really gonna be no real room for 'new classes' without sacrificing a lot of the gameplay of a potential class. Like, who's really cheering for a 2 spec Evoker really? It could have had 3+ specs easily, but we all know the game and designers can't support it with the piecemeal additions they're doing to the existing system. I think an overhaul would do some good here, much like how they're overhauling the Talents.

[Jujudrood]

Hopefully the next class... never happens.
There's already plenty of classes.
Give DH and Evoker a third spec, extend to other races, and all bases are covered.

Anything else they add at this point will just be "half this, half that" of existing classes.
So, really, they just need to add multi-classing and people can make whatever abomination they want and walk away happy-ish.

[Teriz]

Yeah but that's like saying players wanted to have more talent tiers before they retooled the entire system back to a tree. Players only really ask for what they reasonably expect, not some overhaul which could possibly give them more than they could even fathom.

Again, abolishing specs and retooling talents are two very different things. Abolishing specs is the equivalent of removing classes, which would be a suicidal move on Blizzard’s part.

Abolishing specs wouldn't be a far cry from the spec revamps and the gameplay culling they've done over the years, whether we're talking about removing Tank and DPS capabilities from DK specs or completely retooling Survival and Demonology gameplay to fit something completely new. It'd just be a condensing of certain gameplay and opening it back up through customizations and new classes, really. That's what they've done in the past, and it opened up room for new gameplay and classes.

Not even remotely the same thing. Survival got retooled because it was redundant and played too similar to the other Hunter specs. It’s important to note that Hunter players also complained about how all the Hunter felt the same. Who the heck is asking for specs to be removed?

I think if we go down this road there's really gonna be no real room for 'new classes' without sacrificing a lot of the gameplay of a potential class. Like, who's really cheering for a 2 spec Evoker really? It could have had 3+ specs easily, but we all know the game and designers can't support it with the piecemeal additions they're doing to the existing system. I think an overhaul would do some good here, much like how they're overhauling the Talents.

A better option would be to simply make certain specs like the concepts people want. For example, give DKs a ranged option in their talents to satisfy Necromancer fans, and give Hunters talent options to make them into Dark Rangers. You don’t need classes that are small derivatives of existing classes.

As for the Evoker, I’m cheering that the class exists. It’s a very enjoyable class to play.

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Hopefully the next class... never happens.
There's already plenty of classes.
Give DH and Evoker a third spec, extend to other races, and all bases are covered.

Anything else they add at this point will just be "half this, half that" of existing classes.
So, really, they just need to add multi-classing and people can make whatever abomination they want and walk away happy-ish.

I don’t believe a Mechanic, Chemist, ETC-style Bard, or Explorer class would be an abomination of existing classes. They would be in fact quite novel and unique.

[Ielenia]

Why would anyone want bard over necromancer or tinker

Maybe because the concept is a staple of most TTRPGs with fantasy-based settings, like D&D and Pathfinder, and it's flexible and versatile enough that it can fit all roles in WoW aside from tanking, i.e. healing, melee dps, ranged dps and spellcasting dps?

[Ezyah]

Imagine if the next class is Hero Class Tinker with only 2 specs

I was amazed the OP didnt mention Tinkers yet but here we go , first teply.

[Triceron]

Who the heck is asking for specs to be removed?

Plenty if you looked around hard enough. There's plenty of redundancies that could easily be fixed up in the game, the over-reliance on Spec-based gameplay being one of them. It's the root problem of not being more flexible in adding more new classes in the first place.

Why do you think we don't have a dozen more new classes after Vanilla and instead only have 4 in the past ~18 years? Specs. That's why. The game is ultimately balanced around specs, rather than around classes. If this game had remained an extension of Vanilla, I think we could have plenty more classes, like how Everquest did.

That being said, I'm not saying it should go in the way of Everquest, but I think some Spec trimming would open up plenty of room for new classes. We have too many redundancies anyways.

Like Rogue gameplay can practically be unified while allowing your 'Ninja/Pirate/Assassin' flavour to be accessed purely through a more robust Talent tree. I don't think we need 3 completely separate styles of gameplay that need to be balanced against each other. It could literally be one style of gameplay, where your preference to lean towards Ninja or Pirate or Poison/Bleeds gameplay would just be a matter of Talent choice. Do we really need 3 styles of Rogue gameplay? I don't think so.

I mean if we're gonna even bring up balance issues of divergent Talent builds, then we could push that into Specs facing the same issue. The 'Ninja' talents out AoE outperforms Pirate and Assassin? Well that'd already be the case between 3 different Rogue specs and people would be picking their poison and playing the specs that perform the best anyways. It wouldn't make much of a difference removing the specs completely and folding it all into one unified class gameplay while allowing Talents to take over the old differences between Specs.

Then they could use the room to open up all sorts of other actual 'specs' that could cover different concepts and gameplay. More Tanks and Healer roles out of the Pure classes, more room to explore 'Hero' class concepts options through new talents.

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https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...hat_would_you/

Take a look at some of the creative ideas in this thread. There's some real great stuff to cut down on specs. Unholy and Frost merged together for a 2H icy melee + Pets spec; I would imagine something similar to HOTS Arthas. Or Frost and Fire Mage specs together as a combined Elemental spec, allowing Frostfire gameplay to be optional again, while still retaining plenty of Pure Fire or Pure Frost flavour if you choose to.

[Hambo94]

I'm pretty sure Wrathion is the 4th or 5th most popular character in WoW.

That said, I would say the dragon theme definitely gives the class a different vibe than the mage class.

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Yeah, I think the issue is that a 2nd DPS spec wouldn't be much different than the Devestation spec, unless you made it melee, and Ion said they had a glut of melee DPS as is. As for a tank spec, Evokers being ranged and mobile doesn't work all that well for tanking it seems.

If we're ever going to get a 3 spec class again, it'd have to have innate trinity role themes from jump. Tinker/Mechanic definitely falls in line with this since tanking, ranged DPS, and healing concepts are pretty obvious.

Regardless thats for Blizzard to decide, my point was that for a class based on dragons theres no way you can only make 2 specs.

That said I saw what you replied to another person above. There is absolutely zero chance Wrathion is top 5, I cant even see how he would be top 10.

In no particular order more iconic/popular characters

1) Lich King 2) Illidan 3)Sylvanas (even after the recent xpacs shes iconic) 4)Thrall 5) Voljin 6)Grom/Garrosh 7) Arthas 8) Jaina 9) Sargeras 10) Malfurion 11) Azshara 12) Guldan 13) Tyrande/Maiev. 14) Alexstrasza (and basically all the other aspects for that matter) Anyway my point is, I could go on for like 20+ characters before you start beinging Wrathion into the conversation.

Maybe Wrathion is popular to new WoW players/young players who dont remember the plethora of other iconic characters in Warcraft/WoW history, but to say Wrathion is the 5th most popular class in WoW is pretty absurd dude.

[Teriz]

Regardless thats for Blizzard to decide, my point was that for a class based on dragons theres no way you can only make 2 specs.

If you don't have the aspect concepts to broaden the theme, a dragon-based class would be very narrow and rather shallow. In the case of a class utilizing the 5 aspects like the Evoker, it's rather easy how you can wind up with two specs. The mainly issue is that you have Black and Red which are very close to each other in terms of utilizing fire. In addition, you have multiple aspect concepts running into existing classes, like Black and Shaman, or Green and Druids, or Blue and Bronze and Mages. Combining the aspects in each spec is a way to avoid that overlap, give the class a reasonable spec count, and to make the class feel somewhat unique.

The biggest issue I see with a third Evoker spec is making another DPS spec feel different than Devastation, or making another heal spec feel different than Preservation. A melee Evoker spec seems silly, so really the only option you have is to make a tank spec. Again, given that the core of the class is mobility and spell casting, that doesn't really line up well with tanking.

So yeah, the Evoker ending up with two specs makes sense.

Which brings us back to the point of this thread; The next class definitely should get 3 specs. We definitely could use a "normal" WoW class next.

That said I saw what you replied to another person above. There is absolutely zero chance Wrathion is top 5, I cant even see how he would be top 10.

In no particular order more iconic/popular characters

1) Lich King 2) Illidan 3)Sylvanas (even after the recent xpacs shes iconic) 4)Thrall 5) Voljin 6)Grom/Garrosh 7) Arthas 8) Jaina 9) Sargeras 10) Malfurion 11) Azshara 12) Guldan 13) Tyrande/Maiev. 14) Alexstrasza (and basically all the other aspects for that matter) Anyway my point is, I could go on for like 20+ characters before you start beinging Wrathion into the conversation.

Maybe Wrathion is popular to new WoW players/young players who dont remember the plethora of other iconic characters in Warcraft/WoW history, but to say Wrathion is the 5th most popular class in WoW is pretty absurd dude.

Wrathion's popularity is largely driven by his appearance, and the fan shipping between him and Anduin. Him, alongside characters like Anduin and Yrel, are among the most popular post-WC3 characters in WoW.

I'm also willing to bet that Sylvanas' popularity has taken a massive tumble since Shadowlands.

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I was amazed the OP didnt mention Tinkers yet but here we go , first teply.

Again, I think a class called "Mechanic" is far more likely.

[Dancaris]

I can't imagine Blizzard will release a class with 3 specs ever again.

Twice now they've released a class with only 2 specs, and players haven't meaningfully protested, so why put in the work?

Both Demon Hunters and Evokers could easily have had third specs, I mean there's an archer demon hunter in Hearthstone, evokers could've used the magic of the black dragonflight to tank, neither are unrealistic or implausible ideas..

But they didn't because they can and do get away with doing the bare minimum.

Well, evokers can use 2h axes and swords. What is it, if not some preparations for black+red dragon spec. And with all of that - green, bronze, red and blue magic is strongly presented via evokers, while black is what, 1 spell?

[Hambo94]

If you don't have the aspect concepts to broaden the theme, a dragon-based class would be very narrow and rather shallow. In the case of a class utilizing the 5 aspects like the Evoker, it's rather easy how you can wind up with two specs. The mainly issue is that you have Black and Red which are very close to each other in terms of utilizing fire. In addition, you have multiple aspect concepts running into existing classes, like Black and Shaman, or Green and Druids, or Blue and Bronze and Mages. Combining the aspects in each spec is a way to avoid that overlap, give the class a reasonable spec count, and to make the class feel somewhat unique.

The biggest issue I see with a third Evoker spec is making another DPS spec feel different than Devastation, or making another heal spec feel different than Preservation. A melee Evoker spec seems silly, so really the only option you have is to make a tank spec. Again, given that the core of the class is mobility and spell casting, that doesn't really line up well with tanking.

So yeah, the Evoker ending up with two specs makes sense.

Which brings us back to the point of this thread; The next class definitely should get 3 specs. We definitely could use a "normal" WoW class next.





Wrathion's popularity is largely driven by his appearance, and the fan shipping between him and Anduin. Him, alongside characters like Anduin and Yrel, are among the most popular post-WC3 characters in WoW.

I'm also willing to bet that Sylvanas' popularity has taken a massive tumble since Shadowlands.

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Again, I think a class called "Mechanic" is far more likely.

I personally dont like the idea of one spec just being 'everything' though. I would have rather seen healer being green, rolling 3 of them eg red blue yellow into a dps spec and then making a 3rd spec black or something (whatever makes the most sense) some sort of armoured deathwing type thing with fire breath to create aoe aggro, tail swipe knockback stuff like that.

I appreciate your point though, I just dont like the evoker, and I dont like 2 class specs. I would flat out never play a class with 2 specs because to me, its not fun to be a dps and be locked forever to one theme.

Regarding your wraithion point, that has huge recency bias you realise that? Asking fans who are currently playing who their favourite characters are, does not = the most popular character

Look im sorry dude, but there is actually zero chance that Wrathion is even top 10 in the average Warcraft fans eyes IMO. I appreciate you're hyped about Evoker and clearly love the character because you have him as your profile picture, but again, sorry, I refuse to believe hes even top 10 in the average fans eyes.

[Teriz]

I personally dont like the idea of one spec just being 'everything' though. I would have rather seen healer being green, rolling 3 of them eg red blue yellow into a dps spec and then making a 3rd spec black or something (whatever makes the most sense) some sort of armoured deathwing type thing with fire breath to create aoe aggro, tail swipe knockback stuff like that.

I think if we had a four-legged Dracthyr option, that could work. They could even base it on the Deathwing HotS hero that was a tank in that game. Maybe a third Dracthyr spec could have some mutated Dracthyr form where it's on all fours and a more standard looking dragon? I dunno, maybe doorways and line of sight would be a problem for such a model, which is why they made them bipedal.

Regarding your wraithion point, that has huge recency bias you realise that? Asking fans who are currently playing who their favourite characters are, does not = the most popular character

Look im sorry dude, but there is actually zero chance that Wrathion is even top 10 in the average Warcraft fans eyes IMO. I appreciate you're hyped about Evoker and clearly love the character because you have him as your profile picture, but again, sorry, I refuse to believe hes even top 10 in the average fans eyes.

It's definitely a recency bias. If you're Blizzard and you have a popular character among the younger fanbase, it makes sense to base a class around them, and make them one of the major figures of your new expansion. I could see that reasoning at play especially given that we've pretty much ran through much of the major WC3 characters. Hell, we regurgitated several of them in Shadowlands. Blizzard themselves said that Shadowlands was sort of the end of the WC3 story, and DF was the beginning of a new story set. It makes sense to utilize characters like Chromie, Wrathion, Ebonhorne, Kalecgos, Nozdormu, and other characters that appeared after WC3.

[Hambo94]

I think if we had a four-legged Dracthyr option, that could work. They could even base it on the Deathwing HotS hero that was a tank in that game. Maybe a third Dracthyr spec could have some mutated Dracthyr form where it's on all fours and a more standard looking dragon? I dunno, maybe doorways and line of sight would be a problem for such a model, which is why they made them bipedal.

Yeah something like that, but yeah that is totally possible that it would be a problem. PERSONALLY I think that they should just figure it out, its really not that big of a problem to figure out compared to some game dev problems though.

It's definitely a recency bias. If you're Blizzard and you have a popular character among the younger fanbase, it makes sense to base a class around them, and make them one of the major figures of your new expansion. I could see that reasoning at play especially given that we've pretty much ran through much of the major WC3 characters. Hell, we regurgitated several of them in Shadowlands. Blizzard themselves said that Shadowlands was sort of the end of the WC3 story, and DF was the beginning of a new story set. It makes sense to utilize characters like Chromie, Wrathion, Ebonhorne, Kalecgos, Nozdormu, and other characters that appeared after WC3.

Yes, but I still think you are grossely overestimating how popular Wrathion is. And I cant stress that enough, I mean GROSSELY.

It will take Wrathion multiple expansions as a main character doing cool stuff, expansions like legion that end up being positively received when all is done I might add, to make his popularity even close to being as high as the classic characters. Again, clearly you are a fan of him, he is a cool character, but really, I think you are enormously overestimating him in popularity.

[Teriz]

Yes, but I still think you are grossely overestimating how popular Wrathion is. And I cant stress that enough, I mean GROSSELY.

It will take Wrathion multiple expansions as a main character doing cool stuff, expansions like legion that end up being positively received when all is done I might add, to make his popularity even close to being as high as the classic characters. Again, clearly you are a fan of him, he is a cool character, but really, I think you are enormously overestimating him in popularity.

Well Wrathion’s popularity (or lack thereof) isn’t really the topic of this thread, so we’ll simply have to agree to disagree.

[Lodreh]

Imagine if the next class is Hero Class Tinker with only 2 specs

Tank or Healing

[Hambo94]

Well Wrathion’s popularity (or lack thereof) isn’t really the topic of this thread, so we’ll simply have to agree to disagree.

OK but just to clarify, are you talking top 5 all time or top 5 current most popular, in terms of you asking someone right now, name your top 5 favourite Waracraft chars, and they'd name Wrathion, is that a fair summary of your belief, that the question I just pitched would be what you're talking about.?

[sam86]

Hopefully it is Tinker
This class is a wc3 hero, it is missing since ages
Also for that matter, I still want Ogres for Horde and Furbolgs for alliance in wow since .... 2003? 2004?
As for 2 specs, i actually have np with that, as long they add new class
Also i wish they add a pure dps class (not tinker, that class far more utility to be just dps, maybe dps but still with lot of support?) instead of we always get a tank/healer class to game, the lack of healing/tanking is because ppl don't like that role, even if u give every class in wow heal/tank specs

I can't imagine Blizzard will release a class with 3 specs ever again.

Twice now they've released a class with only 2 specs, and players haven't meaningfully protested, so why put in the work?

Both Demon Hunters and Evokers could easily have had third specs, I mean there's an archer demon hunter in Hearthstone, evokers could've used the magic of the black dragonflight to tank, neither are unrealistic or implausible ideas..

But they didn't because they can and do get away with doing the bare minimum.

ranged DH? no i don't see that at all
but I agree Evokers was butchered, it looks good, but it is far worse than what it should been, it should been far beefier instead of that skeleton we got, and it should been heavy melee focused instead of again ranged/healer we got

[Acuma]

Isn’t a hero class or only has 2 specs.

While I like the Evoker, I feel that it’s limited leveling space and it’s lack of spec options really hurt it in terms of depth. Hopefully the next class will be a base class like Monks, and like Monks be a three spec class that performs all roles (tank/healing/DPS).

A mí también me agrada esa idea. Estoy trabajando en mi propio concepto de Runemaster, que toma como base el tuyo de hace varios años, espero que no te moleste. Me falta terminar la especialización de sanador pero espero hacerlo en las próximas horas.

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TBF, such a class is likely to be called Mechanic and incorporate a wider swath of Azerothian technology than just Goblins and Gnomes.[/QUOTE]

Me gusta la idea del Tinker pero solo para Goblin y Gnomos, y tal Mecagnomos y Vulpera porque el uso de esas armaduras se debe a la inferioridad física de esas razas.

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Imagine if the next class is Hero Class Tinker with only 2 specs

Sería un desperdicio. En este mismo foro hay un increíble concepto de 4 especializaciones.

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Creo que sería Tinker, hay concepto increíble de 4 especializaciones en este foro. Lo haría solo gnomo-mecagnomo para la Alianza y goblin-vulpera para la Horda. Se que los Vulpera no tienen mucho que ver con la tecnología pero son los pequeñines opuestos a los Mecagnomos. El uso de armaduras de batalla se restringiría a estas razas por su inferioridad física. Otras razas tienen golems pero luchan junto a ellos no dentro de ellos porque tienen el físico para ello y acaba siendo más eficiente.

[Trazzle]

Is a tinker… it’s over due.

[Inoculate]

Is a tinker… it’s over due.

Oh look, tinkererer squad cant even wait an expansion to start beating the drums of war.