Darnassus is gone and it still has no "replacement"

[VladlTutushkin]

30 years of peace was passed, they make a truce, no? And agressor was lightforged, not orcs. So yea, spacegoats are reason mag'hars is now in the Horde. And now they see another lightforged spacegoats that do the same, they following same naaru and look exactly the same. So yea, their mistrust is reasonable and completely understandable.


It can turn backwards, you know? No Sunreaver kills high elf of Covenant before the purge, but again horde team are the bad guys.

Classic. They do that to themselves? That a perfect victimblaming, you know? waiters and cleaners have nothing to do with one Sunreaver support Garrosh. And even with that - Jaina helped to hide artifact in Darnassus - so she was and will be Alliance. And telling that Silver Covenant is not Alliance is really strange. Same as Sunreavers weren`t Horde? Jokes on you.

Nope, Dalaran was Alliance city with humans and dragon rule human city. With Jaina as leader openly helps Alliance agains the Horde. Or you say overwise?

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Oh, more victimblaming here. Sunreavers knows nothing aside Aethas and that random elf from Theramore. But if Silver Covenant openly murders civilians and not evicted - so its right thing to do in Dalaran. See the Horde - kill the Horde, ye? And who is the bad guy here?
Same with Mag'hars. Spacegoats attack them, not overwise. Killed, genosided, enslaved and turned into light-zombies.
But hating similar spacegoats that do the same - its bad, yes?

You misinterpreting facts worse than a journalist on a payday.

1) Literally two different races from different timelines. Yes, both draenei, but from DIFFERENT UNIVERSES. And our draenei do not turn other races into “light zombies”.

2) Again, should have just stood up to Garrosh. He i stead chose to make Jaina his victim, in hopes of her being stupidly forgiving (like Alliance always is). And for once it didnt worked out for them!

[Dancaris]

You misinterpreting facts worse than a journalist on a payday.

1) Literally two different races from different timelines. Yes, both draenei, but from DIFFERENT UNIVERSES. And our draenei do not turn other races into “light zombies”.

2) Again, should have just stood up to Garrosh. He i stead chose to make Jaina his victim, in hopes of her being stupidly forgiving (like Alliance always is). And for once it didnt worked out for them!

No one made Jaina some victim. Jaina openly help NE to steal the Bell, made traps for spies and killing them. And do so despite been neutral, even before purge. Heck, even Rhonin, leader of Six was in Theramore to help defending it. What about neutrality?
So Dalaran as city helps Alliance, Horde choose to get help too and then Purge happens. Murdering blood elves, high elves, civilians at night, no pre-action used, no info - just a blantant aggression. And for that no one take any responsibility, am I right? No Silver Covenant was exiled, no dalaran guard, not Jaina. Its ok to kill Horde while you Alliance, but a big no-no if overwise.

[saintminya]

Mustn't forget that Jaina didn't even feign an inquest before condemning all Sunreavers for the actions of an unaffiliated blood elf working directly under Garry.

[VladlTutushkin]

Mustn't forget that Jaina didn't even feign an inquest before condemning all Sunreavers for the actions of an unaffiliated blood elf working directly under Garry.

According to Blizz Sunreavers were “mostly” in on deals with Garry, so you cant say they were innocent and not on the whole business.

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No one made Jaina some victim. Jaina openly help NE to steal the Bell, made traps for spies and killing them. And do so despite been neutral, even before purge. Heck, even Rhonin, leader of Six was in Theramore to help defending it. What about neutrality?
So Dalaran as city helps Alliance, Horde choose to get help too and then Purge happens. Murdering blood elves, high elves, civilians at night, no pre-action used, no info - just a blantant aggression. And for that no one take any responsibility, am I right? No Silver Covenant was exiled, no dalaran guard, not Jaina. Its ok to kill Horde while you Alliance, but a big no-no if overwise.

Guess Horde should have worked on their reputation better and not collect war criminals, rapists and torturers from all corners of the universe into their faction.

In realistic world they would not even BE in Dalaran to begin with. Because they have zero fucken credit.

And Rhonin was in Theramore as part of Dalaran peacemaker contingent, same as UN can send their forces to zones of conflict to prevent escalation.

[Kilpi]

I agree for the most part.
But there were changes that weren't good, such as hordies strafing Astranaar. Despite the small quest to get rid of them they're still there when they should have phased out.
That said, there should have been plenty to do in the old zones. "Karnum's Glade" in Desolace was a nice show in progressive change that should expand incrementally to the nearby sea.
Just one of many changes for the better that could happen...but I wouldn't touch the capital cities. Teldrassil should never have burned. That was pure stupid writing.

Yea sure changes and stories told in the zones can be good or bad, but the idea that stories told would happen in already existing and established zones would be A LOT more interesting to me, compared to what they've done. Playing classic also reminded me how much more interesting some things are when you don't know everything (mainly things Titans and Old Gods). Also containing the happenings mainly in Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms would decrease the chances of the story going super-cosmic anime bullshit.

Edit: and the stories/scale of stories was never a problem for me in old school WoW, only how they were presented. The whole Defias/Onyxia/Varian storyline is still one of my favorite stories in WoW, especially when it basically starts from the human starting area, goes through Elwynn, Westfall, Redridge, Wetlands and Dustwallow. So basically it follows a human character almost from level 1 to level 40-ish and then comes back at level 60.

[Dancaris]

According to Blizz Sunreavers were “mostly” in on deals with Garry, so you cant say they were innocent and not on the whole business.

And you can proof that? I still remember that garrosh deals used sunreaver from Theramore and Aethas who "just look aside".

Guess Horde should have worked on their reputation better and not collect war criminals, rapists and torturers from all corners of the universe into their faction.

Again - some strange logic. Only non-native Horde race are orcs. So "from all corners of the universe into their faction" is false at least. And even with that - some bad reputation are not reason to action such as been in Dalaran. Heck, Horde have even more Azeroth native races that Alliance have.
Horde still exists because Alliance racism and chauvinism. Their hatred to anyone that is different from them.

In realistic world they would not even BE in Dalaran to begin with. Because they have zero fucken credit.

To you - maybe. But to Dalaran - they are citizens and have all rights of natives. Political identity has nothing to do with that. They live in Dalaran far too long to be treated like that.

And Rhonin was in Theramore as part of Dalaran peacemaker contingent, same as UN can send their forces to zones of conflict to prevent escalation.

Again, do you have proof in that? If we take wowpedia page we can see -
"When Jaina appealed to the Council of Six to help defend Theramore Isle against an attack by the Horde, they decided that doing nothing could be seen as a tacit approval of Garrosh Hellscream's path of conquest, and sent Rhonin and a number of other magi to defend the city"
So its direct intervension of neutral faction in war between Horde and Alliance.

Check the lore first please to make some assumptions.

[Nymrohd]

Horde will forever hang on Purge because it's the only decent event they have.

[Raisei]

30 years of peace was passed, they make a truce, no? And agressor was lightforged, not orcs. So yea, spacegoats are reason mag'hars is now in the Horde. And now they see another lightforged spacegoats that do the same, they following same naaru and look exactly the same. So yea, their mistrust is reasonable and completely understandable.

A truce, just like the Alliance and Horde did to fight the Legion Invasion. Why do you not ask the Night Elves how well the Horde keeps a truce...

Besides that, the Lightbound are not the same as the Lightforged and the Lightforged are not led by a Naaru anymore. Or did you forget Illidan killing her? And it is not even about mistrust, they are just bored without killing anything. Shadow's Rising made it apparent that they just want to wage war, no matter what the consequences or the reasons.

It can turn backwards, you know? No Sunreaver kills high elf of Covenant before the purge, but again horde team are the bad guys.

That they did not actively kill the Covenant members does not excuse them smuggling a WMD to Garrosh.

Classic. They do that to themselves? That a perfect victimblaming, you know? waiters and cleaners have nothing to do with one Sunreaver support Garrosh. And even with that - Jaina helped to hide artifact in Darnassus - so she was and will be Alliance. And telling that Silver Covenant is not Alliance is really strange. Same as Sunreavers weren`t Horde? Jokes on you.

While yes, we can say that Jaina went radical with racial profiling, we also have to see that she really had no choice. Aethas Sunreaver betrayed the Council, because he figured that they were less dangerous then Garrosh. His mistake. Jaina had no way of knowing who of the Sunreavers was guilty and who wasn't, so she wanted to arrest them to find out, them then attacking and trying to kill her resulted in more death then necessary. Jaina has always given the Horde the benefit of the doubt, she even sacrificed her father for them, and that led to her city being destroyed and her friends murdered. It is hard to blame her for overreacting at that point.
Aethas had the knowledge to stop this, but he did not act on it. Instead he had the nerve to be confrontational with Jaina when she came to arrest him. Most of the death of that day is because of him choosing Garrosh over the Violet Council. Once he did that, he left Jaina with very little choice. She could accept that there might be dozens of traitors among the Sunreavers that were happy to help Garrosh destroy more cities or she could arrest them to find out the truth. A massacre was never her intention, but the Sunreavers that attacked her after all the betrayal she faced so recently signed their own death warrant.

Nope, Dalaran was Alliance city with humans and dragon rule human city. With Jaina as leader openly helps Alliance agains the Horde. Or you say overwise?

Uhm no, it wasn't. It was a High Elven City to begin with, then those invited Humans to study magic and later the Blood Elves joined as well. Or why do you think Kael'thas studied together with Jaina there? The city was very much neutral until that day and it became neutral again in Legion. You can go check, the old version is still floating over Northrend, neutral.
Jaina was only part of the leading Violet Council, as was Aethas Sunreaver, but her decisions during the Purge were later accepted by the remaining councilors. And her actions did not directly benefit the Alliance, only indirectly. Her goal was to prevent a dangerous insane orc to get his hands on a very dangerous object, which was completely understandable considering what he did with the last weapon he got. Keeping the Bell from Garrosh was preotecting the world, if you don't see that, then only because you are biased.

Oh, more victimblaming here. Sunreavers knows nothing aside Aethas and that random elf from Theramore. But if Silver Covenant openly murders civilians and not evicted - so its right thing to do in Dalaran. See the Horde - kill the Horde, ye? And who is the bad guy here?
Same with Mag'hars. Spacegoats attack them, not overwise. Killed, genosided, enslaved and turned into light-zombies.
But hating similar spacegoats that do the same - its bad, yes?

What happened to the Sunreavers wasn't right, no. But the fault for it lies with Aethas just as much as it lies with Vereesa. When he decided that his allegiance to Garrosh was more important then his allegiance to Dalaran, he forced Jaina's and Vereesa hand. Had he gone to the Council and told them what happened, they would have helped him and none of the Purge had been necessary.

Ugh, stop pretending like the Mag'har are some innocent flowers. They enslaved the Draenei, murdered them and the Draenei still safed them when the Legion came. X'era mindcontrolled Yrel and the other Lightbound, they do not have free will. Hate X'era who is the one behind this, the Draenei are as much victims as the Mag'har.

It is a pretty obvious reversal of what happened in the orginal timeline, where the Orcs nearly murdered all Draenei because of the interference of the Legion. Just that this time it is a Light entity doing it.

[Dancaris]

Horde will forever hang on Purge because it's the only decent event they have.

We still have Zul'Dazar, orc camps, Vulpera genoside, tauren sacred placed pillaging by dwarves, mass killing taurens by dwarves, goblin murdering by DI dwarves at Zandalar, Echo Isles mass murdering by Daelin, Garrithos, exile of Highborne bc Malfurion was a dick - that which led to heavy losses by them.
But in any thread in that forums only Alliance players start count crimes. And when Horde players answers - they rage, start yelling and quit. To start new thread in a week.

[Raisei]

Mustn't forget that Jaina didn't even feign an inquest before condemning all Sunreavers for the actions of an unaffiliated blood elf working directly under Garry.

The portal led directly into the territory of the Sunreavers in Dalaran... and Aethas literally stumbled onto them, so yeah... the thought that they are connected to the Sunreavers kinda presents itself.

And besides that, when was she supposed to question them? While Fireballs and Blades were flying at ther face? Do Police Officers usually question people in the middle of a shoot-out? No, they arrest, then question. As was Jaina's intention.

[VladlTutushkin]

We still have Zul'Dazar, orc camps, Vulpera genoside, tauren sacred placed pillaging by dwarves, mass killing taurens by dwarves, goblin murdering by DI dwarves at Zandalar, Echo Isles mass murdering by Daelin, Garrithos, exile of Highborne bc Malfurion was a dick - that which led to heavy losses by them.
But in any thread in that forums only Alliance players start count crimes. And when Horde players answers - they rage, start yelling and quit. To start new thread in a week.

1/3 of that was done by Lordaeron (now part of the Horde)

1/3 was not done by Alliance, but by a single actor (Daelin).

And rest is either not a war crime, not as bad as Horde usually does or Purge/Muhtaurajo.

Face it, Horde literally has no horse in that race. Embrace being evil, atrocious monsters because thats how game portrays you. You are NOT in the right. Fucken Blizzard said that.

“Alliance has the moral high ground”.

Just stop trying to be what you arent.

[Dancaris]

A truce, just like the Alliance and Horde did to fight the Legion Invasion. Why do you not ask the Night Elves how well the Horde keeps a truce...

Besides that, the Lightbound are not the same as the Lightforged and the Lightforged are not led by a Naaru anymore. Or did you forget Illidan killing her? And it is not even about mistrust, they are just bored without killing anything. Shadow's Rising made it apparent that they just want to wage war, no matter what the consequences or the reasons.



That they did not actively kill the Covenant members does not excuse them smuggling a WMD to Garrosh.



While yes, we can say that Jaina went radical with racial profiling, we also have to see that she really had no choice. Aethas Sunreaver betrayed the Council, because he figured that they were less dangerous then Garrosh. His mistake. Jaina had no way of knowing who of the Sunreavers was guilty and who wasn't, so she wanted to arrest them to find out, them then attacking and trying to kill her resulted in more death then necessary. Jaina has always given the Horde the benefit of the doubt, she even sacrificed her father for them, and that led to her city being destroyed and her friends murdered. It is hard to blame her for overreacting at that point.
Aethas had the knowledge to stop this, but he did not act on it. Instead he had the nerve to be confrontational with Jaina when she came to arrest him. Most of the death of that day is because of him choosing Garrosh over the Violet Council. Once he did that, he left Jaina with very little choice. She could accept that there might be dozens of traitors among the Sunreavers that were happy to help Garrosh destroy more cities or she could arrest them to find out the truth. A massacre was never her intention, but the Sunreavers that attacked her after all the betrayal she faced so recently signed their own death warrant.



Uhm no, it wasn't. It was a High Elven City to begin with, then those invited Humans to study magic and later the Blood Elves joined as well. Or why do you think Kael'thas studied together with Jaina there? The city was very much neutral until that day and it became neutral again in Legion. You can go check, the old version is still floating over Northrend, neutral.
Jaina was only part of the leading Violet Council, as was Aethas Sunreaver, but her decisions during the Purge were later accepted by the remaining councilors. And her actions did not directly benefit the Alliance, only indirectly. Her goal was to prevent a dangerous insane orc to get his hands on a very dangerous object, which was completely understandable considering what he did with the last weapon he got. Keeping the Bell from Garrosh was preotecting the world, if you don't see that, then only because you are biased.



What happened to the Sunreavers wasn't right, no. But the fault for it lies with Aethas just as much as it lies with Vereesa. When he decided that his allegiance to Garrosh was more important then his allegiance to Dalaran, he forced Jaina's and Vereesa hand. Had he gone to the Council and told them what happened, they would have helped him and none of the Purge had been necessary.

Ugh, stop pretending like the Mag'har are some innocent flowers. They enslaved the Draenei, murdered them and the Draenei still safed them when the Legion came. X'era mindcontrolled Yrel and the other Lightbound, they do not have free will. Hate X'era who is the one behind this, the Draenei are as much victims as the Mag'har.

It is a pretty obvious reversal of what happened in the orginal timeline, where the Orcs nearly murdered all Draenei because of the interference of the Legion. Just that this time it is a Light entity doing it.

1. There was no truce between Alliance and Horde. They just get their ass beaten, so could not fight each other. Aside Genn and Nathanos. And that time - Alliance was aggressor.
2. Again, not all sunreavers was guilty, but Silver Covenant kills them anyway. Were some actions be done to them? Nope, bc killing Horde aligned is good in Dalaran. No consequences to Verissa and Jaina, nothing.
3. Jaina had no choise is classic excuse. They could gather meeting and deside what to do unsted aggression. Democracy, no? And even with that - Rhonin had no rights to interfere. So he pick a side with Alliance. Then Jaina pick same side with Bell, despite been neutral. And nothing change that.
4. So if Maghars could kill them - it is right to kill them back? Really?
>Draenei still safed them when the Legion came
Nope, Frostwolves, LSkull and other tribes was there too, you know? Dont pretend that orcs was just masskilling anyone and then just stops. Most of bad guys was killed, only Grommash still lives to that day. Then draenei took his son, his people, their lands to some light bulb. And after escaping from their own world that was invaded by evil spacegoats (I remind you that draenei are aliens to Draenor) - they come to another world where they saw another spacegoats that do the same thing - Naaru, Light, paladins and all of that. Ofc they will be hostile with them and their allies. You talk about reputation - here it is.

[Lolites]

Horde will forever hang on Purge because it's the only decent event they have.

no, bcs its one of the worst, when you are on trial for murder nobody will mention you give the victim bad look, they will however mention you stabbed him in the gut...

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A truce, just like the Alliance and Horde did to fight the Legion Invasion. Why do you not ask the Night Elves how well the Horde keeps a truce...

you mean the one that GENN BORKE in Stormheim? duirng legion invasion, against orders from Anduin as he literaly says so himself?
yeah, that was totaly horde breaking the truce, getting attacked without provocation by alliance while fighting the legion, how dared they get attacked! /s

[Shadowferal]

you mean the one that GENN BORKE in Stormheim? duirng legion invasion, against orders from Anduin as he literaly says so himself? yeah, that was totaly horde breaking the truce, getting attacked without provocation by alliance while fighting the legion, how dared they get attacked! /s

You mean after horde runs away after Varian's sacrifice Genn was going to trust that so-called truce? And he was right not to...and had the rest of the horde found out what Sylvanas was up to...oh who am I kidding. Hordies would still kill themselves over her.

[Raisei]

We still have Zul'Dazar

The Zandalari had that and much more coming. They nearly destroyed the world a few times and were enemies to both Alliance and Horde. Granted their crimes pale in comparison to the insane Warchief of the month.

orc camps

I am always confused how the Horde partisans are not understanding that the camps were an act of mercy. Would you have prefered the execution of all Orcs?

Vulpera genoside

You mean those twenty vulpera that died during an invasion? Cute. Maybe they should have thought a bit more about who they ally with. After the crimes of the Horde during this war, allying with them was the same as helping war criminals.

goblin murdering by DI dwarves at Zandalar

You mean the combatants that were preparing to attack the Alliance?

, Echo Isles mass murdering by Daelin, Garrithos

Neither Daelin nor Garithos were ever part of the New Alliance. Maybe we should start blaming the the Horde for the old Horde's crimes too? Like the Draenei genocide.

exile of Highborne bc Malfurion was a dick

Sure, why wouldn't he be happy to have those folks around, considering his old Queen literally sundered the friggin world with the same magic and sold her people to the Legion...

But in any thread in that forums only Alliance players start count crimes. And when Horde players answers - they rage, start yelling and quit. To start new thread in a week.

We argue them because halve of them are untrue and the other halve blown completely out of proportion. Even if we take all the victims of Alliance attacks together we will not reach halve of the number of the Teldrassil victims alone and in most cases the Alliance has been provoked anyway. None of the civilians in Teldrassil, Theramore or Gilneas provoked anyone. The Horde murdered them for shallow reasons and nothing else.

[Dancaris]

1/3 of that was done by Lordaeron (now part of the Horde)

1/3 was not done by Alliance, but by a single actor (Daelin).

And rest is either not a war crime, not as bad as Horde usually does or Purge/Muhtaurajo.

Face it, Horde literally has no horse in that race. Embrace being evil, atrocious monsters because thats how game portrays you. You are NOT in the right. Fucken Blizzard said that.

“Alliance has the moral high ground”.

Just stop trying to be what you arent.

Kek, that is still funny.
1. Nope, whole Alliance gather funds to camps/admited Garithos leadership. So technically that still counts.
2.So if something was done with single actor that doesn't count? Why blame Horde then?
Teldrassil? Sylvanas. Bell? Garrosh. Theramore? Garrosh. Something else? Demonblood by Mannoroth. Easy-peasy.
3. So if some crimes are "lesser" than another - its ok to do that? Tell Vuplera children that they are killed bc some draenei was killed in different planet by orcs (unfamiliar to Vulpera) 30 or so years ago, bc they drink demonblood that come bc draenei run from them. Good logic.

While I agree that in most places Alliance had moral highground (debatable but ok) - dont act like Alliance are rabbits that poop rainbows and pick flowers.
Horde started with "noble savages" theme and it should be so. And with addition of Elves - Horde had maybe more culture presence than Alliance.

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The Zandalari had that and much more coming. They nearly destroyed the world a few times and were enemies to both Alliance and Horde. Granted their crimes pale in comparison to the insane Warchief of the month.



I am always confused how the Horde partisans are not understanding that the camps were an act of mercy. Would you have prefered the execution of all Orcs?



You mean those twenty vulpera that died during an invasion? Cute. Maybe they should have thought a bit more about who they ally with. After the crimes of the Horde during this war, allying with them was the same as helping war criminals.



You mean the combatants that were preparing to attack the Alliance?



Neither Daelin nor Garithos were ever part of the New Alliance. Maybe we should start blaming the the Horde for the old Horde's crimes too? Like the Draenei genocide.



Sure, why wouldn't he be happy to have those folks around, considering his old Queen literally sundered the friggin world with the same magic and sold her people to the Legion...



We argue them because halve of them are untrue and the other halve blown completely out of proportion. Even if we take all the victims of Alliance attacks together we will not reach halve of the number of the Teldrassil victims alone and in most cases the Alliance has been provoked anyway. None of the civilians in Teldrassil, Theramore or Gilneas provoked anyone. The Horde murdered them for shallow reasons and nothing else.

Victimblaming, victimblaming, victimblaming. Zandalari (despite been true neutral before Alliance put Talanji in jail) - fault that spies put bombs in their ships, Vulpera fault that Alliance wage war in Vol'Dun and dont know shit about Alliance/Horde war, goblins dig azerite in Zandalar - we kill them at glance.
And its ok to kill Vulpera bc its only 12 of them, right? And if we will count - NE died in Teldrassil was like 900, right? So killing 200 goblins by lava is ok bc 900>200, yes?
>We argue them because halve of them are untrue and the other halve blown completely out of proportion
As I say - "your examples are wrong examples"!! See you in next thread.

[Shadowferal]

Just own the evil...

]

[Raisei]

1. There was no truce between Alliance and Horde. They just get their ass beaten, so could not fight each other. Aside Genn and Nathanos. And that time - Alliance was aggressor.

Oh there was one. It was sealed in Dalaran, with Sylvanas and Varian both present. The Legion opening even sees these two fight side by side. Of course, she then abandoned him without so much as a warning which made Genn believe that the truce was over. However, during all of Legion the factions worked together in the Class Orders.

2. Again, not all sunreavers was guilty, but Silver Covenant kills them anyway. Were some actions be done to them? Nope, bc killing Horde aligned is good in Dalaran. No consequences to Verissa and Jaina, nothing.

Again, how were Jaina and Vereesa supposed to know that? They could only arrest all of them and find out later. Aethas had the knowledge to stop it from happening and did nothing. If it had not been for Jaina and Anduin the Bell would have rung and Pandaria with all the people would have been destroyed, all because Aethas couldn't stand up to Garrosh.

3. Jaina had no choise is classic excuse. They could gather meeting and deside what to do unsted aggression. Democracy, no? And even with that - Rhonin had no rights to interfere. So he pick a side with Alliance. Then Jaina pick same side with Bell, despite been neutral. And nothing change that.

Yes, let us call everyone together and thus warn all the traitors and give them ample time to flee!... Seriously? Maybe in the past Jaina would have been this naive, but not after Garrosh wiped her city out.
Rhonin tried to safe lives. That is the charge of the Dalaran mages. It's not about Horde or Alliance. He helped because more people would have died, it's not like he teleported the bomb into Orgrimmar or something for a counter attack, he only prevented a madman from murdering even more people. There is nothing political about that. It's frankly disturbing that you cannot see this.

4. So if Maghars could kill them - it is right to kill them back? Really?

No "could" about it. They did actively kill Draenei and enslaved them. But again, since you seem to ignore this, the Draenei are not acting out of revenge, they are mind-controlled by a Naaru and forced to attack the Orcs.

>Draenei still safed them when the Legion came
Nope, Frostwolves, LSkull and other tribes was there too, you know? Dont pretend that orcs was just masskilling anyone and then just stops. Most of bad guys was killed, only Grommash still lives to that day. Then draenei took his son, his people, their lands to some light bulb. And after escaping from their own world that was invaded by evil spacegoats (I remind you that draenei are aliens to Draenor) - they come to another world where they saw another spacegoats that do the same thing - Naaru, Light, paladins and all of that. Ofc they will be hostile with them and their allies. You talk about reputation - here it is.

Strange, I remember many Orcs sideing with the Legion for more power and Grommash held prisoner in the Hellfire Citadel. Then when we saved him, he suddenly pretended like all his warcrimes to the day never happened without so much as an apology for anything he did to the Draenei. Grommash was loosing in the war thanks to our interference, otherwise his plan was to become a conquerer of other worlds. Funny how you point out that the Draenei aren't native, considering this little detail.
Also funny how you seem to consider the Orcs inability to tell two different kinds of Draenei apart as some sort of justification. Does this mean that hating the Mag'har for the crimes of the original Horde is also justified?

[Lolites]

A massacre was never her intention

but it was direct outcome of her actions, casued by soldiers she let into the "neutral" city, not by kirin tor, who are "police" in dalarn, by ALLIANCE SI7...
and she doesnt even feel bad about it, remember in BFA in Thros? she remembered all bad things like doing nothing when arthas decided to purge stratholme or betraying her father, but not even a mention of a goddamn racial purge... you would think for anyone but literal psychopath massacre of innocents (especialy if it "wasnt her intention") would take top place on shit she did, but obviously no...

Sunreavers that attacked her after all the betrayal she faced so recently signed their own death warrant.

how dared the innocent shopkeepers defend themself agains ALIANCE SOLDIERS, who have no authority over them whatsoever, attacking them IN THEIR OWN SHOPS AND HOUSES, without any explanation or whatnot, its their fault...
also why would they not trust alliance soldiers "only" arresting them, its not like alliance arrested elfs before in dalaran to execute them for doing absolutely nothing...

Jaina murdered innocents personaly, and let her soldiers murder innocents, there is ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE for that whatsoever, even if handful of guilty was caught in crossfire, killing people bcs of their race bcs SOME OF THEM, theoreticaly might do something bad is a goddamn attrocity, which she should be held accountable for...

not to mention she wanted to level Orgrimmar, and didnt only bcs she was stopped - she didnt stop, she WAS STOPED (and not by alliance)...

like im not saying horde leaders didnt do worse, but Jaina did terrible things yet somehow the alliance leadership (and players) standing on their moral highground did decide to ignore that...
yes horde only changes leaders and pretend all is fine after shite hitting the fan, but alliance doesnt even do that, they just pretend nothing bad happened...

And her actions did not directly benefit the Alliance, only indirectly.

she gaves nelfs the divine bell and after purge kirin tor joined alliance on isle of thunder, how the HELL is that not direct benefit to alliance?!

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Zandalari [U](despite been true neutral before Alliance put Talanji in jail)

technicaly, zandalari were neutral until alliance killed Rastakhan, he did not join the horde, and did not join the war against alliance, zandalari did nothing more but defend their territory when alliance approached it...Talanji joined the horde after becoming queen, so after alliance attacked and killed Rastakhan

[Maljinwo]

The Zandalari had that and much more coming. They nearly destroyed the world a few times and were enemies to both Alliance and Horde

When did that happen exactly?

You mean when the Zandalari organized the trolls and defended Azeroth from the Aqir?
Or when the Zandalari fought against Hakkar twice?

The only 'world calamity' as well as being enemy of both factions was caused by Zul and his followers, not the empire itself