Dragonflying should become evergreen, Legacy flying should be slowly replaced.

[ClassicPeon]

And I will be playing the game, having fun and doing what I want to do once I reach my destination. You know what I don't want to do? Play "medieval flight simulator".


And what you fail to realize is that I do not think the dragonriding mechanic is fun. How many times do I need to repeat "I'm not here to play flight simulator games" before you understand that simple fact? Hence why I don't want it to replace the baseline flight mechanic. "Fun" is fucking subjective.

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If you ignore everything, it's easy to claim there's no argument. FFS.

It would be much easier, simpler and faster to just fly upwards and stay in mid-air rather than move around a mob-filled zone and hope the spot I picked has zero patrols or spawns within aggro range.

I'm not ignoring everything i'm adressing your one and only extremely thin argument. What do you do all the time in the other expansions where you cant fly? It seems like a non issue if thats the only argument. Like really.

[ercarp]

Please explain how taking a flight path is a bad solution. It’s exactly what you guys want, an easy way to afk from point A to point B on a map so you can disengage from the game world. The problem you don’t like is that it does what you want in a more balanced way. What you want is a method to skip content.

Please explain to me how I'm going to farm herbs with a goddamn flight path.

[ClassicPeon]

Bad solution. If you like Dragon Riding so much, go play Spyro or something.

Bad solution. If you like normal flying so much go play Spyro or something.

???? :P

[Kilrox]

Yes there is. IT is ALL opinion. Every single word you said after the bullet points is your OPINION. Being passive aggressive with your last statement doesn't make it any less of an opinion.

ps this is probably a burner account of the OP.

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FLight paths don't take you directly to where you want to go.

Is burner account, I forgot my old password and can’t access my old account while traveling. RIP.

Also please point out the opinion. All I’ve stated in my post is the reason you guys like legacy flying and blizzards response to flying over the years and how both are evidence in expressing how it is a degenerate mechanic.

An opinion would be “I find blizzards attempts to balance flying and making traversal interesting for a change a positive and healthy addition to the game”

[rrayy]

I mean in a game with this many flying mounts they can certainly leave some of them as air swimming style for those who want that, but you can also just use flight points to accomplish this too. Given the general reception of dragon riding I'd be shocked if this wasn't carried forward in to mount classes.

Flight paths don't take you directly to where you want to go. They only take you to places the game dictates you can go. Normal flying allows the player total control of where they want to go. Get on your mount and fly directly to where you want to go.

No it's just better game design honestly. You can have flight points for lazy afk flying if you wish.

Again, read above. They are nto the same as normal flying.

Whya re you and the other pro-dragonriding so against having both in game? Why are you trying to force players to play the game your way?

[Kilrox]

Please explain to me how I'm going to farm herbs with a goddamn flight path.

Thus reinforcing the point I made earlier about how you guys want a flying mechanic that allows users to gather resources unchallenged. (That’s not a healthy thing for the game, you’re advocating for broken mechanic.)

[rrayy]

Is burner account, I forgot my old password and can’t access my old account while traveling. RIP.

Also please point out the opinion. All I’ve stated in my post is the reason you guys like legacy flying and blizzards response to flying over the years and how both are evidence in expressing how it is a degenerate mechanic.

An opinion would be “I find blizzards attempts to balance flying and making traversal interesting for a change a positive and healthy addition to the game”

Every single paragraph after the bullet points is OPINION. Hell, Your second statement here is your opinion. Calling it a degenerative mechanic is your OPINION. What you claim is the reason we like the legacy mechanic is your OPINION because you don't actually knowwhy we like it, especially why I like it. None of that is fact. It's all in the tone and implication. Everything you said was your OPINION.

[mbit2]

Thus reinforcing the point I made earlier about how flying allows users to gather resources unchallenged. (That’s not a healthy thing for the game)

Fly gathering equalized gathering among classes. Without it you either have to use an alt for max efficiency (sup druid) or get shafted by your class being worse at it.
Not that i would engage in it either way, let the bots farm and put mats cheap on auction house. If you wanna rp peasant farmer toiling hard for measly pay go ahead but dont get mad if not everyone is on board.

[rrayy]

Thus reinforcing the point I made earlier about how you guys want a flying mechanic that allows users to gather resources unchallenged. (That’s not a healthy thing for the game, you’re advocating for broken mechanic.)

Your opinion and I disagree with it. It is very healthy for the game to allow players do do things as they want to as much as you can. Limiting players is is NOT a healthy thiing for the game.

[Kilrox]

Your opinion and I disagree with it. It is very healthy for the game to allow players do do things as they want to as much as you can. Limiting players is is NOT a healthy thiing for the game.

You know what, you’re right. Let me get a bot so I can program it to auto-farm reputation and resources for me so I can afk and do something else. After all, according to you, it’s healthy to allow players to do what they want and that limiting players is a bad thing.

The leaps in logic you guys jump through to justify an arguably broken mechanic is insane.

[ClassicPeon]

Your opinion and I disagree with it. It is very healthy for the game to allow players do do things as they want to as much as you can. Limiting players is is NOT a healthy thiing for the game.

What is the logic behind this? What statistical data are you basing that on exactly? By your logic we should remove all abilities from bosses and let people 1v1 them for free loot as many times as they wanted to in a week.

[Ielenia]

I'm not ignoring everything i'm adressing your one and only extremely thin argument. What do you do all the time in the other expansions where you cant fly? It seems like a non issue if thats the only argument. Like really.

What I do in expansions and zones I can't fly? Well, I'm forced to waste time to head to a safe zone (usually a settlement). But if I can fly, all I have to do is mount up and hold the space bar key for a couple seconds, then done. A total of three and a half seconds spent. Safe and sound until I come back to the computer.

Your inability or unwillingness to properly understand the argument does not mean it's "weak" or a "non-issue". Also, it's not the "only argument". The fact you felt the need to say this shows that you don't really care to read what other people are writing.

[Healerme]

Honestly one of my thoughts was I hope drangonriding at least inconveniences bots, and I think it will.

I do understand manually doing a herbing route can be quite therapeutic, which is why I'm okay with them bringing in normal flying later on, for now you'll have to interact with the game world, or yaknow just ground mount around (which is what you'd be doing if drangonriding wasn't a thing).

[Ielenia]

What is the logic behind this? What statistical data are you basing that on exactly? By your logic we should remove all abilities from bosses and let people 1v1 them for free loot as many times as they wanted to in a week.

You really lack logic, don't you? His entire argument is about not removing things, i.e., not limiting players... yet here you are, completely misrepresenting his argument by making a strawman that claims that he wants stuff to be removed from the game.

[rrayy]

You know what, you’re right. Let me get a bot so I can program it to auto-farm reputation and resources for me so I can afk and do something else. After all, according to you, it’s healthy to allow players to do what they want and that limiting players is a bad thing.

The leaps in logic you guys jump through to justify an arguably broken mechanic is insane.

There is no leap in logic. What is insane is the level of stretching you doing with this beyond ridiculous straw man to discount others opinions so you can insist you are right.

The mechanic is not broken. You want dfrasgonriding? Go ahead it is there for you. You do not need to remove normal flying to use it. Stop trying to force others to play your way. Both can exists and let the player decide what is best for themselves.

[Kilrox]

What I do in expansions and zones I can't fly? Well, I'm forced to waste time to head to a safe zone (usually a settlement). But if I can fly, all I have to do is mount up and hold the space bar key for a couple seconds, then done. A total of three and a half seconds spent. Safe and sound until I come back to the computer.

Your inability or unwillingness to properly understand the argument does not mean it's "weak" or a "non-issue". Also, it's not the "only argument". The fact you felt the need to say this shows that you don't really care to read what other people are writing.

By that same logic, why is there trash in a raid? It just waste my time between killing bosses and getting loot. Actually, why’s re there even bosses in the game? I should just log in and get the loot automatically. Im forced into wasting time to kill the boss just to get the loot.

So yea, your argument is weak.

We have bosses and trash in raids to curate pacing in a raid and establish a sense of danger and threat. That same methodology applies to world content and traversal. A players presence in the world is lost as soon as you can ignore the world entirely.

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There is no leap in logic. What is insane is the level of stretching you doing with this beyond ridiculous straw man to discount others opinions so you can insist you are right.

The mechanic is not broken. You want dfrasgonriding? Go ahead it is there for you. You do not need to remove normal flying to use it. Stop trying to force others to play your way. Both can exists and let the player decide what is best for themselves.

You’re not entirely wrong. I think the most ideal solution is to establish a fun new method of traversal every expansion, allow the player to boost that experience in the same way you can upgrade dragonflying. That method of travel would be the primary source of travel for the duration of the expansion, and during the pre-patch of the subsequent expansion, open the zone to legacy flying.

[rrayy]

By that same logic, why is there trash in a raid? It just waste my time between killing bosses and getting loot. Actually, why’s re there even bosses in the game? I should just log in and get the loot automatically. Im forced into wasting time to kill the boss just to get the loot.

So yea, your argument is weak.

We have bosses and trash in raids to curate pacing in a raid and establish a sense of danger and threat. That same methodology applies to world content and traversal. A players presence in the world is lost as soon as you can ignore the world entirely.

This is nothing about another strawman and that one is not remotely the same as flying.

You’re not entirely wrong. I think the most ideal solution is to establish a fun new method of traversal every expansion, allow the player to boost that experience in the same way you can upgrade dragonflying. That method of travel would be the primary source of travel for the duration of the expansion, and during the pre-patch of the subsequent expansion, open the zone to legacy flying.

Wrong. You open legacy flying as they have done since WoD. Why are you so scared of normal flying bieing available with the flying you want? Scared that people will abandon your flying when legacy flying is unlocked?

[Kilrox]

This is nothing about another strawman and that one is not remotely the same as flying.





Wrong. You open legacy flying as they have done since WoD. Why are you so scared of normal flying bieing available with the flying you want? Scared that people will abandon your flying when legacy flying is unlocked?

How you don’t understand the correlation is beyond me. It’s not my fault these points are clearly going over your head.

[Ielenia]

By that same logic, why is there trash in a raid? It just waste my time between killing bosses and getting loot.

Actually raid trash has a chance of dropping BoE loot, so it's not at all an useless addition to a raid instance.

Actually, why’s re there even bosses in the game? I should just log in and get the loot automatically.

You got your world quests for that. The raid bosses exist because people want a challenge.

Im forced into wasting time to kill the boss just to get the loot.

Yeah, not the same thing. Because you can still get gear elsewhere, especially nowadays where you can get tier gear without even stepping into a raid instance.

So yea, your argument is weak.

No, yours is weak. Because your comparisons fail big time. You'd have a point if I have been championing the idea of removing all forms of gear acquisition at max level except for raiding. But I'm not. There's several different avenues to getting gear in the game. Whereas this thread demands the outright removal of the original flying mechanic. Which is what I and others have a problem with.

Try to really understand what people are saying instead of just going with a shallow skim of the argument.

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How you don’t understand the correlation is beyond me. It’s not my fault these points are clearly going over your head.

The correlations don't work because you're comparing apples to chairs.

[Biomega]

By that same logic, why is there trash in a raid? It just waste my time between killing bosses and getting loot. Actually, why’s re there even bosses in the game? I should just log in and get the loot automatically. Im forced into wasting time to kill the boss just to get the loot.

So yea, your argument is weak.

One of the more inane takes I've seen recently.

The whole point is that people want to do the thing they enjoy most, and not do the things they enjoy less but have to do in order to do what they like. You going "hurr durr what if you just got loot tho!" completely misses that point, as you're removing the FUN parts, not the tedious parts. It's not even a strawman, it's just a demonstration of your completely inability to comprehend the most basic argument here - or, if I was interpreting this more maliciously, your intentional attempt at derailing this argument by proposing something comically absurd, because you know you can't offer a proper defeater.

I'm glad you and many other people enjoy dragon-riding. I really am. It's just that there's also people who DON'T enjoy it, and no amount of rolling your eyes going "honestly, you must have never tried it" because you lack the empathy required to even conceive of the possibility that people may not like things you like is going to change that.

Movement, to me and many others, is not an activity, it's a chore. It's a quotidian necessity that's purely there to facilitate other, proper content. And to me and many others, the notion that turning this into a minigame that requires more engagement with a quotidian necessity somehow constitutes "content" is offensive. You may disagree. That's entirely fine. Not everyone enjoys things the same way. But that doesn't mean we're somehow wrong in our subjective assessment, or that our opinion has no value, or that anyone who disagrees with you just hasn't tried it, or whatever other deflection is employed by the defenders of dragon-riding so they can avoid admitting that not everyone enjoys this feature as much as they do.

I'm entirely happy not buying DF because the things it offers don't appeal to me. And I'm equally happy admitting that they DO appeal to many other people. I wish them all the best, but their enjoyment doesn't mean I should readjust my opinion and force myself to enjoy it, too, any more than my disapproval means their enjoyment is somehow not warranted.