Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Syegfryed]

You have yet to back anything you have said up,

Metascore and rotten tomatoes user score back up what i said that the show is garbage and people didn't like it.

the show is good plain and simple

And with what you back up this claim?

There is no data proving the show is bad

So, the show is good, because there is no data that says the show is bad(except there is)


This is an awesome dishonest argument

user metric reviews are not vaild because they are simply filled with the most vocal group of which is the ones that hate everything

Not the most vocal, the most populous, meaning, more people disliked the show

The only valid metrics are from actual critics judging the show fairly and not by impossible fan standards.

AHAHAHAHA yes, the actual critics judging the show sure are fair and not won by money, what a joke.

You are consistant in having opinions that are in the minority.

You are the minoritiy, in this thread and in the whole world

not even people defending this garbage here think the show is good, they just defend for spite of those who criticize it

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I think there are a lot of parallels between this and the Star Wars prequel trilogy. I've said before that Galadriel is this series' version of Jar Jar Binks - the character that they unnecessarily put at the center of a lot of plot that they thought everyone would love who turned out to be generally disliked. By the second movie Jar Jar was turned into a minor character. The prequels didn't ever get good, but they generally improved from one to the next. Maybe there's something similar that will happen to this show.

prequels at least gave us Palpatine and a lot of memes to laugh with it, same can't be said about RoP as even the memes are sad

But the powerpoint font change of southlands to mordor was fucking hilarious

[rhorle]

When it comes to judging a LOTR series, most critics are highly uninformed because they don’t know the underlying book material. So they see a big budget with fancy production values with a generic, somewhat disjointed plot and give it a B+ review.

So its a good show if it is a B+ show. Just not a good adaptation according to you. Just like the Jackson work wasn't a good adaptation to the Tolkien estate who know the book material the best.

[kenn9530]

When it comes to judging a LOTR series, most critics are highly uninformed because they don’t know the underlying book material. So they see a big budget with fancy production values with a generic, somewhat disjointed plot and give it a B+ review.

The fans of the series who know the story are the ones who can really judge it.

The fans of the books are unable to give an accurate judgement because they have certain expectations that even tolkien knew himself would be impossible to be properly represented in a tv/film series.

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THen you can't call the show good either because you don't know, by your same standards.

Yet here we are with you having said the show is good many many times. That means by your own definition, you are full of shit.

The data proves it to be good regardless of personal feelings on it being good or not, im not stating its good because i alone just think its good, im looking at the data available that shows a large portion of the viewerbase at least 70-80% actually like the show regardless of other feelings about it, i have not watched house of the dragon but i can say its a good show because the data proves it to be so.

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snip

User based reviews are irrelevant because there is not enough reviews for it to ever be accurate, your whole argument is based from a fraction of the viewerbase that mostly like to moan of the forums about stuff they dont like, a critics job is to give an unbiased review but as usual your always being dishonest because it goes against your biased views on what you dont like.

Any show that gets 70-85% rating is a good show, you always just ignore the simple truth right infront of you, you have nothing backing you up saying the show is bad, if it was rated a 5/10 maybe you could say its bad, a 5/10 for a show would be something you maybe just watch once, not bad but not great.

IMBD rates the show 7/10, RT rates it at 85%, its viewership has remained pretty steady throughout the whole season, these alone proves the show is a good show.

[kenn9530]

So your argument is that it's impossible to properly represent Tolkien's work in a tv/film series, so it's ok for the showrunners to just make up their own story and call it LOTR?

Tolkien always knew its impossible to faithfully adapt his work into a tv/film series so why do you exect it to when the creator knew it wasnt possible, amazon have bought whatever rights so they can do whatever they want with it, its the usual case of fans with unrealistic expectations and then moaning like little girls because they didnt get what they wanted.

you should be happy for an adaptation at all, because not many companies would spend the money needed to turn it into a tv series.

[Biomega]

User based reviews are irrelevant because there is not enough reviews for it to ever be accurate, your whole argument is based from a fraction of the viewerbase that mostly like to moan of the forums about stuff they dont like, a critics job is to give an unbiased review but as usual your always being dishonest because it goes against your biased views on what you dont like.

"10,000 user reviews aren't enough to be accurate, 5 critics that don't have to disclose any financial or personal bias are way better data."

Oof. Been a while since a take that spicy. Even in here.

[kenn9530]

"10,000 user reviews aren't enough to be accurate, 5 critics that don't have to disclose any financial or personal bias are way better data."

Oof. Been a while since a take that spicy. Even in here.

10k reviews is nothing compared to at least 25 plus million to having watched the show all the way through, ppl who hate things and moan are much more vocal than ppl who like stuff.

By all means you keep thinking less than 0.1% of the viewbase with a review actually means something. On IMBD out of the 289k reviews about 190k rated the show 6 or above which is good, the rest are 5 and below ratings which is half the positive ratings, and thats still only 1% of the viewership that bothers to do any sort of review.

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Ok, I think you've made yourself clear:

Amazon bought the rights and they can do whatever they want, and I should be happy to get anything at all.

We fundamentally don't agree on a single thing here. I personally believe that I am allowed to have opinions and that I don't have to thank god that Amazon made a crap series called Rings of Power. So onto the ignore list you go.

Its not an opinion that the show is rated good or not, its a simple fact with the data available, opinions are a different thing altogether.

[Biomega]

10k reviews is nothing compared to at least 25 plus million to having watched the show all the way through, ppl who hate things and moan are much more vocal than ppl who like stuff.

By all means you keep thinking less than 0.1% of the viewbase with a review actually means something. On IMBD out of the 289k reviews about 190k rated the show 6 or above which is good, the rest are 5 and below ratings which is half the positive ratings, and thats still only 1% of the viewership that bothers to do any sort of review.

Who am I to tell people how statistics work, I guess! They know that you don't trust aggregated data over large numbers, you instead trust people whose professional success and livelihood depends on maintaining a good relationship with the people that have a vested interest in certain review outcomes. That's WAY more reliable.

Or something like that, I don't live in clown world so I wouldn't know. I trust the inhabitants to tell me how it works there.

[Askyl]

People pointing to reviews with todays internet culture with bombing and hate being the #1 thing people go for online is hilarious.

And yet the show even have some decent ratings on imdb etc.

Tolkien fan since I was 8, read the books in middle school. Read all other books as young adult and now as adult. Learned Quenya with a friend because thats how Tolkien Nerdish I am.

Show is great! People not being able to understand things dont need to be 1:1 is quite fun.

[Xath]

10k reviews is nothing compared to at least 25 plus million to having watched the show all the way through, ppl who hate things and moan are much more vocal than ppl who like stuff.

By all means you keep thinking less than 0.1% of the viewbase with a review actually means something. On IMBD out of the 289k reviews about 190k rated the show 6 or above which is good, the rest are 5 and below ratings which is half the positive ratings, and thats still only 1% of the viewership that bothers to do any sort of review.

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Its not an opinion that the show is rated good or not, its a simple fact with the data available, opinions are a different thing altogether.

You really need to learn how statistical sampling works lol

[Syegfryed]

snip

You basically said the show is good because people liked it, you were refuted by numbers telling you people did not like it

your retort is to say they do not matter, despite your previous point saying they are all that matters, and now only the "certified" critics opinion matter

You claim there is not enough reviewers of countless of people, but think the few critics is enough

You think people who disliked the show are biased, but paid critics who just review good because amazon cash are unbiased.

The show is bad, the viewership was bad, the engagement in social media was bad, it's a bad show that people only talk about to mock it

It was so bad they are talking about changing the showrunners, this show is anything but a colossal failure for what wanted to be

[Triceron]

The data proves it

You've provided ZERO data. So all you're full of here is bullshit.

Simple as that.

[Hobbidaggy]

Why are you all getting so angry over this?

If you don’t like it nobody is forcing you to watch it. If it is then seen as having such horrible viewership numbers they will see that it is not being received well and either cancel or change direction (looking at the money spent probably change direction then see how viewership goes and then if it is still bad cancel it)

But the belief that just because something was made means you have to like it because you like other stuff in that genre or even IP doesn’t fit everything. It’s ok to not like something. It really is. Did I like it? Yeah it was ok. Will I watch season 2 probably. Did I like Harry Potter yeah I did, did I like the movies? No I didn’t. But that’s ok I just move on and let everyone else who liked the movies like the movies. You don’t have to go and argue about it with people trying to make everyone else hate it too because you did and tell them how they are wrong because of reasons or you are right because of reasons.

Aren’t you all tired of just arguing and getting nowhere?

[bledgor]

Why are you all getting so angry over this?

If you don’t like it nobody is forcing you to watch it. If it is then seen as having such horrible viewership numbers they will see that it is not being received well and either cancel or change direction (looking at the money spent probably change direction then see how viewership goes and then if it is still bad cancel it)

But the belief that just because something was made means you have to like it because you like other stuff in that genre or even IP doesn’t fit everything. It’s ok to not like something. It really is. Did I like it? Yeah it was ok. Will I watch season 2 probably. Did I like Harry Potter yeah I did, did I like the movies? No I didn’t. But that’s ok I just move on and let everyone else who liked the movies like the movies. You don’t have to go and argue about it with people trying to make everyone else hate it too because you did and tell them how they are wrong because of reasons or you are right because of reasons.

Aren’t you all tired of just arguing and getting nowhere?

I mean by your logic you are free to not post here. People are tired of the things they loved being vandalized by hypocrites in Hollywood who pretend to be a fan but honestly don't give two shits about the source material and are willing to butcher it to fit whatever image they have in their head. People are tired of producers/writers that believe they know better/think they are more talented than the author. Not to mention the sheer gaslighting war that Hollywood has started to engage in with their fans for daring to want adaptations closer to the source material than what we are getting.

People are passionate about things they care about, if you aren't that is fine, but recognize others are and they are just as justified in being pissed and wanting to vent as you are in being okay/not caring.

[Kumorii]

Why are you all getting so angry over this?

If you don’t like it nobody is forcing you to watch it. If it is then seen as having such horrible viewership numbers they will see that it is not being received well and either cancel or change direction (looking at the money spent probably change direction then see how viewership goes and then if it is still bad cancel it)

But the belief that just because something was made means you have to like it because you like other stuff in that genre or even IP doesn’t fit everything. It’s ok to not like something. It really is. Did I like it? Yeah it was ok. Will I watch season 2 probably. Did I like Harry Potter yeah I did, did I like the movies? No I didn’t. But that’s ok I just move on and let everyone else who liked the movies like the movies. You don’t have to go and argue about it with people trying to make everyone else hate it too because you did and tell them how they are wrong because of reasons or you are right because of reasons.

Aren’t you all tired of just arguing and getting nowhere?

I find the opposite to be more prevalent in this thread.
It's ok that people dislike something, you don't always have to come in and disprove their opinion or calling it invalid or find a minute discrepancy in their post to reduce the entire opinion down to blind hate etc etc...

Most arguments in this thread usually starts with "You are wrong to dislike this show for this reason".

[Veggie50]

It doesnt matter how many liked the show, not every show is to the taste of every single person and there are billions of ppl in the world, not all amazon prime members even use the streaming service, if 100 million ppl potentially want to watch the show then thats larger than most tv shows ever get.

All the data backs my claim, of those who have actually watched the show all the metrics show most viewers enjoyed it, why dont you prove me otherwise, all the reviews point the show to being between a 70-85% rating, if thats not considered good then you clearly have no idea on what you are even talking about.

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If more ppl like something than hate it that makes it good, there is no way around that, personal tastes dont make something good or bad, plus too many ppl are ignorant and overly judgy on everything these days, the majority rules on what is considered a good tv/film series not the individual.

Thats a completely arbitrary definition of “good” and “bad”.

In 1938 nazi germany was approx 70 million people. Before the war started, most common people had no real opinion on them. So thats about 70 million thinking they’re pretty good, and maybe a couple million thinking they’re bad. By your definition, at 1938, nazis were good guys.

Yes, I’m aware of how ridiculous this sounds, but thats what you get when people “define” purely subjective terms.

For an example closer to home, look at cult films. These are movies widely regarded as garbage, but they have a clear cult following that love them. You honestly believe you would be correct to argue to them the movie they love is bad and they’re wrong?

[Fabinas]

Just watched it a week ago.

The show is exceptionally BAD, because :

• It's full of nonsensical events to drive the plot and story forward. Galadriel's character & choices are all over the place. Things just happen around the heroes and when the heroes do things, those just happen to advance the plot, despite not making sense.

• The casting is mediocre as far as looks/appearances are concerned. Elves don't look elvish. The choice of having two main actors being colored without integrating their existence in universe reeks of tokenism and diversity quotas. To be more specific, my problem is with just picking Arondir and Disa, without picking MORE colored actors as Elves and Dwarves with enough screen time, in order to establish the variety of skin colors in the series universe for those. Note that there's no complain about Sir Lenny Henry, as Harfoots are casted with a greater ratio of non-white actors.

• It's full of red herrings, in order to create mysteries that are not so mysterious. Establishing Halbrand as smith, without having another character with the same profession, especially around Celembrimbor, kinda gave his role away. Inserting Gandalf as a meteor-wrecked, befuddled castaway with no memories and identity, but with fire magic and animal connection traits was also a dead giveaway.

• No sense of time passing. People travel around too fast and arrive exactly at opportune times, which diminishes not only the scale of the world (known to us by the in-series maps), but the emergencies and the difficulties for the heroes.

I could go on, but most issues have been already covered in this thread (which i started to read after watching the show, skipping almost all of Kann's, Rogoth's and Rhorle's drivels and bad faith arguments). I was hoping for something better, and only found it in the Dwarf part of the show. One can't help wonder how this trainwreck was allowed, ddespite its financial cost, if compared to Andor and HotD. The latter have far better quality in most of their aspects, but especially in their stories, character development, casting and scenarios.

This post has already taken more than enough time than the show is worthy of.

[Adamas102]

I find the opposite to be more prevalent in this thread.
It's ok that people dislike something, you don't always have to come in and disprove their opinion or calling it invalid or find a minute discrepancy in their post to reduce the entire opinion down to blind hate etc etc...

Most arguments in this thread usually starts with "You are wrong to dislike this show for this reason".

That's pure, unadulterated bullshit. Not a single poster in this thread has told anyone that they can't dislike this show. However, the thing a lot of people in this thread don't seem to realize is that something doesn't have to be bad for them not to like it.

In the case of this show I'd say a lot of the dislike comes from people simply not getting what they wanted (which is par for the course with almost any adaptation). Unfortunately, they then come in here and try to rationalize their dislike by saying things like "the acting was bad" or "the directing was bad" when by any objective metric these were perfectly fine. Or, as the past few pages have shown, they'll post about user reviews as if that's a relevant metric for determining the quality of a show.

If you want to hate the show, that's fine. If you want to post on this forum that you hated the show, that's perfectly fine as well. If you want to instead claim that something was done poorly when it objectively wasn't then you're no longer in the realm of just having an opinion.

[Kumorii]

That's pure, unadulterated bullshit. Not a single poster in this thread has told anyone that they can't dislike this show. However, the thing a lot of people in this thread don't seem to realize is that something doesn't have to be bad for them not to like it.

In the case of this show I'd say a lot of the dislike comes from people simply not getting what they wanted (which is par for the course with almost any adaptation). Unfortunately, they then come in here and try to rationalize their dislike by saying things like "the acting was bad" or "the directing was bad" when by any objective metric these were perfectly fine. Or, as the past few pages have shown, they'll post about user reviews as if that's a relevant metric for determining the quality of a show.

If you want to hate the show, that's fine. If you want to post on this forum that you hated the show, that's perfectly fine as well. If you want to instead claim that something was done poorly when it objectively wasn't then you're no longer in the realm of just having an opinion.

Case in point.

[kenn9530]

You really need to learn how statistical sampling works lol

You need to learn that most ppl that have watched the show like it plain and simple.

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You basically said the show is good because people liked it, you were refuted by numbers telling you people did not like it

your retort is to say they do not matter, despite your previous point saying they are all that matters, and now only the "certified" critics opinion matter

You claim there is not enough reviewers of countless of people, but think the few critics is enough

You think people who disliked the show are biased, but paid critics who just review good because amazon cash are unbiased.

The show is bad, the viewership was bad, the engagement in social media was bad, it's a bad show that people only talk about to mock it

It was so bad they are talking about changing the showrunners, this show is anything but a colossal failure for what wanted to be

You couldnt refute anything because you have nothing.

25 million ppl minimum watching a show it in it first weeks and throughout the whole season is to you considered bad, all the average ratings on the show are 7 or higher, you are obviously clueless on what is considered bad, the show was the number one show throughtout its release and the numbers will only continue to rise.

You have no say on whats a bad show or not because the facts simply dont support you.

A show being bad and you not liking it are 2 completely different things.

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You've provided ZERO data. So all you're full of here is bullshit.

Simple as that.

The data is right in your face, takes 2 secs to check several review sites that proves the show is good, you have provided no data proving the show is bad because there is none.

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Thats a completely arbitrary definition of “good” and “bad”.

In 1938 nazi germany was approx 70 million people. Before the war started, most common people had no real opinion on them. So thats about 70 million thinking they’re pretty good, and maybe a couple million thinking they’re bad. By your definition, at 1938, nazis were good guys.

Yes, I’m aware of how ridiculous this sounds, but thats what you get when people “define” purely subjective terms.

For an example closer to home, look at cult films. These are movies widely regarded as garbage, but they have a clear cult following that love them. You honestly believe you would be correct to argue to them the movie they love is bad and they’re wrong?

The show is rated pretty good and most ppl like the show that has watched it, ppl need to accept reality that more ppl enjoy the show than dont.

[Adamas102]

• It's full of nonsensical events to drive the plot and story forward. Galadriel's character & choices are all over the place. Things just happen around the heroes and when the heroes do things, those just happen to advance the plot, despite not making sense.

Can you elaborate? Plot conveniences exist in pretty much every fictional work. It's extremely convenient that Sauron decides to go looking for The One Ring after it passes on to Frodo and Gandalf is able to warn him, or that Strider finds the hobbits in Bree just before the Nazgul do, or that Glandalf shows up at Helms Deep just in time to save the day. The books are filled with plot conveniences, and if anything the movies play them up even more because those typically make for dramatic moments in visual medium.

As for Galadriel, she isn't a particularly complicated character, so her motivations are simple. She wants to make sure that Sauron is utterly defeated. It's what propels her quest at the beginning of the show, it's what leads her to jump from the boat, and it's what drives her to push the Numenoreans to rally a force to Middle Earth. That hyper focused desire for revenge begins to waver when Mount Doom erupts and turns victory into a retreat, and even more so when she is confronted with having helped Sauron himself into the house of the elves. It's not "all over the place".

• The casting is mediocre as far as looks/appearances are concerned. Elves don't look elvish. The choice of having two main actors being colored without integrating their existence in universe reeks of tokenism and diversity quotas. To be more specific, my problem is with just picking Arondir and Disa, without picking MORE colored actors as Elves and Dwarves with enough screen time, in order to establish the variety of skin colors in the series universe for those. Note that there's no complain about Sir Lenny Henry, as Harfoots are casted with a greater ratio of non-white actors.

You don't really seem to know what tokenism is if you think Arondir and Disa fit the bill. Token characters are irrelevant to the plot and are ONLY included for token representation. Arondir and Disa are pretty central characters to each of their plots. They're not background characters, when they're around they're usually right there at the forefront having meaningful interactions with other characters. So no, they're not an example of tokenism at all.
As for the idea that different skin tones need to be explicitly addressed, that's just an idea based on real world bias and the false notion that skin tone variation is such a differentiating factor that it can't simply exist (while at the same time, seemingly having no issue with eye or hair color variation). Arondir isn't an elf from some special dark skinned group of elves, he's just an elf and that's it. The idea that you have to adhere to real world genetic evolution when talking about a fantasy world where immortal humanoid beings are simply created is silly.

• It's full of red herrings, in order to create mysteries that are not so mysterious. Establishing Halbrand as smith, without having another character with the same profession, especially around Celembrimbor, kinda gave his role away. Inserting Gandalf as a meteor-wrecked, befuddled castaway with no memories and identity, but with fire magic and animal connection traits was also a dead giveaway.

You need to realize that the vast majority of people who watched this show have never read anything about the Second Age (probably never even read LotR or The Hobbit). The mysteries that were so easy for us folks who are familiar with the literature were indeed mysteries for many show watchers.

Even still, I think their decision to go the Halbrand route was a good one. On the page, Annatar isn't an interesting character. He shows up, some of the elves distrust him (we're not really told why, but they never do anything about it anyway), and he hangs out for a few hundred years teaching ring-crafting. Using Halbrand to link a Galadriel storyline with the Southland storyline and then eventually have him end up in Eregion was a decent attempt to tie what were originally divergent plots together.

As for Gandalf, the only concrete proof that it's him was pretty much just the "follow your nose" line. "Fire magic" and "animal connection" aren't even specific traits to Gandalf in the books or movies.

• No sense of time passing. People travel around too fast and arrive exactly at opportune times, which diminishes not only the scale of the world (known to us by the in-series maps), but the emergencies and the difficulties for the heroes.

Pacing is one of the aspects that I'd definitely say could have been improved. Depending on how the Gandalf/Harfoot storyline progresses, I think it probably would have been best to drop that one from this season and let the Galadriel/Elrond/Southland plots breathe a bit more. I never found it difficult to follow, but there were times when it felt like more time could have been given to certain scenes rather than cutting to a different plot/story line. It's something that happens in every show that tries to juggle more than 2 central plots.

One can't help wonder how this trainwreck was allowed, ddespite its financial cost, if compared to Andor and HotD.

Yeah, I think the writing and acting in Andor has been fantastic, even if the pacing in the first few episodes was particularly slow. As for HotD, there were definitely some standout performances there (Paddy Considine, amazing), but it also had some poorly filmed/edited scenes where it was somewhat difficult to follow what was going on. The time jumps also conveniently gloss over some unanswered plot threads (like why did no one do anything about Cole committing murder at a royal wedding, or why the Royces never followed up on the mysterious death of Rhea). Those shows are still good despite those weaknesses, and similarly RoP not being AS GOOD as those shows doesn't in turn make it bad (much less a train wreck).

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Case in point.

So basically you don't know what you're talking and you believe that you can straight up lie and just pass if off as "just an opinion". Glad we got that out of the way.