Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Edge-]

https://www.b92.net/eng/news/world.p...&nav_id=114904

Oh boy, Ukraine turning into an even more explicit proxy war.

[Corvus]

Hrm, Iranian tech vs Israeli tech. Not hard to see who wins that exchange.

[jonnysensible]

really dont understand the russian obsession with bakhmut, they are getting absolutely smashed there throwing endless bodies into the grinder. Every photo i see looks like :



it aint worth it lads

[Kallisto]

really dont understand the russian obsession with bakhmut, they are getting absolutely smashed there throwing endless bodies into the grinder. Every photo i see looks like :



it aint worth it lads

Isn't it mostly Wagner attacking there? If so maybe Putin is trying to thin out prison population and make the Wagner leader look bad.

[Santti]

Isn't it mostly Wagner attacking there? If so maybe Putin is trying to thin out prison population and make the Wagner leader look bad.

Putin has taken some control of the troops himself, apparently. And Wagner looking bad makes Russia looks bad, so I doubt that's his angle. And Russia looking bad is a no-no for authoritarians like him.

[Corvus]

The obsession with Bakhmut might not make a lot of sense to us, but it does for Wagner. It is the front they are assigned and they get paid bonuses for taking ground, so they will take that ground, even if a snail could literally crawl faster than they are moving.

And the Wagner SS is actually viewed favourably in russian circles. While the rest of the russian army is being driven back or has stalled, Wagner is making from progress forward. That it costs thousands of casualties is of little concern to russians, given the callous disregard that they care about the death or suffering of others. Progress is all that matters. Wagner is making it. No one else is.

[Kaleredar]

The obsession with Bakhmut might not make a lot of sense to us, but it does for Wagner. It is the front they are assigned and they get paid bonuses for taking ground, so they will take that ground, even if a snail could literally crawl faster than they are moving.

And the Wagner SS is actually viewed favourably in russian circles. While the rest of the russian army is being driven back or has stalled, Wagner is making from progress forward. That it costs thousands of casualties is of little concern to russians, given the callous disregard that they care about the death or suffering of others. Progress is all that matters. Wagner is making it. No one else is.

Being the lone unit that pushes further and further into Ukraine's effective "blow you up from far away" range seems like a bad idea.

[Kallisto]

Being the lone unit that pushes further and further into Ukraine's effective "blow you up from far away" range seems like a bad idea.

For the soldiers maybe. But if you're Liquid Ocelot and you're getting money for each cm one of your guys move forward. Then does it really matter when it's cash in the bank for little to no cost?

[Slant]

This is a grown up man, not a fucking baby. Grown men don't degrade themselves to dancing in heels and tight leather.
But yeah, say whatever makes you sleep better at night. Sorry not sorry I ruined your hero's image.

And why not? Because of your antiquated views on manliness? Who's the clown now?

[Saradain]

Nazi Russia is now officially a terrorist state for European Union. Won't change much and does not stop civilian genocide but warms my heart nonetheless.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo...2-0487_EN.html

USA for the record wanted this to happen already in July. And NATO is recommending for its member states to do the same.

[Azadina]

Nazi Russia is now officially a terrorist state for European Union. Won't change much and does not stop civilian genocide but warms my heart nonetheless.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo...2-0487_EN.html

USA for the record wanted this to happen already in July. And NATO is recommending for its member states to do the same.

Warms my heart too. Finally people recognize RuZZia for what it really is.

Next step should be giving RuZZkies outside of RuZZia a list of choices:

1. Renounce citizenship of terrorist nation, adopting a citizenship in a country they happen to reside in.
2. Leave voluntarily, and not return while supporting member of a terrorist nation.
3. Refuse 1 and 2; get arrested and forcibly deported.
4. Refuse 1 and 2, resist option 3; get shot as terrorist state combatant.

[Saradain]

Warms my heart too. Finally people recognize RuZZia for what it really is.

Next step should be giving RuZZkies outside of RuZZia a list of choices:

1. Renounce citizenship of terrorist nation, adopting a citizenship in a country they happen to reside in.
2. Leave voluntarily, and not return while supporting member of a terrorist nation.
3. Refuse 1 and 2; get arrested and forcibly deported.
4. Refuse 1 and 2, resist option 3; get shot as terrorist state combatant.

Step 1 has a problem. Requirements of non-RuZZia nations.

If my own wife can't get a citizenship of Finland in less time than 5 years of residence (with residence permit), how would we give RuZZian citizens a privilege of skipping the rules (and costs related to said applications)? Last thing I want is to give advantages to them. A cowardly russian still supporting the nazi Russia even after renouncing the said state, but safely abroad from mobilizations is a problem in the long run.

Step 2 can be done, auto-decline any asylum applications from RuZZia and give the standard 5 year Schengen ban (or for non-Schengen nations, an equivalent restriction).

Step 3 happens naturally if the said russians are already in the country for whatever reason, and not at the border for easy removal. I see the great irony of denazification when such terrorists and collaborators would be hunted Europe-wide for the next 100 years, just like nazis of old are, globally.

Step 4 varies entirely per country. Finnish police in general very very rarely use gun violence to handle shit, while some other nations have more trigger-happy solutions. Regardless, Step 2 can be repeated here. Auto-declined russians become persona non gratas, told to leave the country or be hunted as illegals to be deported.

[Azadina]

Step 1 has a problem. Requirements of non-RuZZia nations.

If my own wife can't get a citizenship of Finland in less time than 5 years of residence (with residence permit), how would we give RuZZian citizens a privilege of skipping the rules (and costs related to said applications)? Last thing I want is to give advantages to them. A cowardly russian still supporting the nazi Russia even after renouncing the said state, but safely abroad from mobilizations is a problem in the long run.

Step 2 can be done, auto-decline any asylum applications from RuZZia and give the standard 5 year Schengen ban (or for non-Schengen nations, an equivalent restriction).

Step 3 happens naturally if the said russians are already in the country for whatever reason, and not at the border for easy removal. I see the great irony of denazification when such terrorists and collaborators would be hunted Europe-wide for the next 100 years, just like nazis of old are, globally.

Step 4 varies entirely per country. Finnish police in general very very rarely use gun violence to handle shit, while some other nations have more trigger-happy solutions. Regardless, Step 2 can be repeated here. Auto-declined russians become persona non gratas, told to leave the country or be hunted as illegals to be deported.

Step 1 is more aimed at anyone already having lived outside of RuZZia, rather than any mobilization dodgers. Details to be worked out for sure. Maybe a lesser temporary version of citizenship for X amount of years, after which they can apply for full one. Anyone not having lived abroad previously, skip to parts 2 and 3.

Well yeah, any of the first 3 steps can be worked out before step 4. It's mostly there for closing any loopholes, as well as "fuck around and find out".

[Gabriel]

Step 1 has a problem. Requirements of non-RuZZia nations.

If my own wife can't get a citizenship of Finland in less time than 5 years of residence (with residence permit), how would we give RuZZian citizens a privilege of skipping the rules (and costs related to said applications)? Last thing I want is to give advantages to them. A cowardly russian still supporting the nazi Russia even after renouncing the said state, but safely abroad from mobilizations is a problem in the long run.

Step 2 can be done, auto-decline any asylum applications from RuZZia and give the standard 5 year Schengen ban (or for non-Schengen nations, an equivalent restriction).

Step 3 happens naturally if the said russians are already in the country for whatever reason, and not at the border for easy removal. I see the great irony of denazification when such terrorists and collaborators would be hunted Europe-wide for the next 100 years, just like nazis of old are, globally.

Step 4 varies entirely per country. Finnish police in general very very rarely use gun violence to handle shit, while some other nations have more trigger-happy solutions. Regardless, Step 2 can be repeated here. Auto-declined russians become persona non gratas, told to leave the country or be hunted as illegals to be deported.

I'd just apply it for double citizenships, and not go for people with visas or residency permits.

[The Stormbringer]

Don't assume every Russian citizen running from Russia supports the regime. Yes, a lot of them only ran away because they feared for being conscripted, but there were countless Russians who left way before conscription was even being whispered about. There are innocent Russians suffering too, no need to punish them by throwing them back to an authoritarian state.

[Gabriel]

Don't assume every Russian citizen running from Russia supports the regime. Yes, a lot of them only ran away because they feared for being conscripted, but there were countless Russians who left way before conscription was even being whispered about. There are innocent Russians suffering too, no need to punish them by throwing them back to an authoritarian state.

If they have a dual citizenship with some other country, they can just live there after giving up their russian passport.

[Saradain]

Russia seems to be planning a false flag attack...on Russia.

https://www.understandingwar.org/bac...nt-november-22

The Kremlin appears to be setting information conditions for a false-flag attack in Belgorod Oblast, Russia, likely in an effort to regain public support for the war in Ukraine.

If you don't join Nazi Russia's genocide, you're gonna BE genocided.

[Iphie]

Russia seems to be planning a false flag attack...on Russia.

https://www.understandingwar.org/bac...nt-november-22



If you don't join Nazi Russia's genocide, you're gonna BE genocided.

Standard putte playbook. Chechens anyone?

[Saradain]

Standard putte playbook. Chechens anyone?

It is quite amusing when our resident Russia fans ignore historical facts how their own country was sabotaged or plainly invaded in the past by Nazi Russia, acting like Russia is a saviour.

Those who know, know - as we finns (loosely translated) say.

Right, in addition to Nazi Russia once again bombarding Ukraine's civilian (and only civilian) targets, they also managed to cause massive electricity shortages in Moldova.

Reuters sans paywall

Think on top of that, they also had a pro-Kremlin hacker group cyberattack European Union after Nazi Russia was declared a terrorist state.

What a bastion of civilization.

[Kaleredar]

It is quite amusing when our resident Russia fans ignore historical facts how their own country was sabotaged or plainly invaded in the past by Nazi Russia, acting like Russia is a saviour.

Those who know, know - as we finns (loosely translated) say.

Right, in addition to Nazi Russia once again bombarding Ukraine's civilian (and only civilian) targets, they also managed to cause massive electricity shortages in Moldova.

Reuters sans paywall

Think on top of that, they also had a pro-Kremlin hacker group cyberattack European Union after Nazi Russia was declared a terrorist state.

What a bastion of civilization.

Pro-russians only seem to care whether they're winning or not, or if the west is "losing."
@Shalcker and co. never cared about Russian war crimes, the murder of civilians, the kidnapping of children, or the mass graves. All they could ever manage in response was a half-hearted "prove it" and then move on to how India buying arms from them was going to keep all of Russia afloat while the western world crumbled, and that's when they even deigned to acknowledge that those things were happening. We had @Ihavewaffles wringing his hands and whining about Ukrainians bombing a bridge being used by the Russians as a military asset being an act of "terrorism" whilst ignoring Russians actively targeting Ukrainian civilian spaces like schools, playgrounds and apartment buildings, with no military value, for destruction.


Luckily, they aren't winning, either. You need to approach people these people at the level they deal on. You can't attempt to shame them; you can only remind them that they're supporting awful, awful people while still losing. That their futures are being sold short and their loved ones sent off to die for nothing.