Darnassus is gone and it still has no "replacement"

[Shadowferal]

This makes me really annoyed, because it is so true. The Horde have done horrible things and while it has mostly been done under Garrosh or the undead, its still hard to get away from. It is such a shame, that Blizzard have consistently chosen the Horde to be direct bad guys again and again, instead of making them interesting adversaries to the Alliance in a war for dominance and survival.

There seemed a bit of cautious friendly rivalry between Dranosh and Bolvar at Wrathgate that I'd like to have seen continued.

[Flurryfang]

There seemed a bit of cautious friendly rivalry between Dranosh and Bolvar at Wrathgate that I'd like to have seen continued.

That is the kind of interaction i would hope WoW would go more into for a period, where people who used to fight each other on the battlefield now has to deal with fighting together on same set battlefield.

Would also allow for new locations to be set much closer to the "enemy" territory, without it becoming a complete battlefield. I could easily see New Darnassus being placed in Ashenvale as a sort of peace aggrement, with the horde leaving the zone, so the elves could populate it instead.

[Raisei]

I like how in yet another thread a certain type of posters are once again pretending that simply making the surviving Orcs fuck off back to their place (you know, what was done in the a metric ton of wars across history) was somehow not an option. Even though, when Alliance then closed the Dark Portal anyway, they were under the impression they were doing that permanently.

I expected you earlier, but at least your unrepentent bias does not disappoint.

Of course. Just let the invading mass murdering aliens go. What could go wrong? It's not like they already reopened the portal to Azeroth once before or anything, right? Riiight. Seriously... do the Orcs strike you as the kind of people who go back home peacefully and pick up farming since the invasion didn't work out?

Obviously sending them back would have allowed them to return once they had replenished their numbers and kill another few thousand men, women and children. Do you seriously expect the human kingdoms to just hope they can beat them again? How stupidly naive do you think they are?

Ah, forget I asked, obviously they are drooling idiots in your eyes, since they aren't Horde members and when they actually make a smart decision like here, you fault them for that too. Huh, almost as if any human/Alliance people cannot do anything right in your eyes. Who would have thought?

I'd add that Stormwind is in a much better shape than Orgrimmar. Part of it is obviously in-story idiocy of Thrall who deliberately settled in a shithole to atone for his green guilt, but after Garrosh rebuild it he made changes to make it a more functional city. Yet, like you said, it doesn't even have proper docks other than one wharf.

You would think that aliens that ruined their own planet with their stupidity and have zero architecture skills beyond the creation of mudhuts are much better at creating a "city". Maybe if the Orcs had not forced every member of the Horde to subject to their culture, including their horrible language, Orgrimmar could look like a mix of Quel'thalas and Suramar now.
Unfortunately none of the Warchiefs cared for that. Thrall wanted to keep them small, because he knew that he could not control their base desires of war and murder, Garrosh was only interested in fulfilling his base desire of war and murder (his changes to Orgrimmar were obviously only for that purpose) and Sylvanas did not care about anyone or anything beyond her own person.

Maybe with the Council in charge you have a chance for a better capital now. Wouldn't that be grant? The people you and your fellow partisans hate so much create a better Orgrimmar for the Horde, solve all the resource issues and do all of that without bombing any cities or burning any trees. That would be a great day.

[geco]

The problem of updating is how inefficient it is, most ppl don't know for example that horde have no foot in Ashenvale since MoP days, sometimes even blizz themselves forget it seems
Pre-BFA event (didn't play in that time) didn't show that part no idea why, in fact is it even clear who controls Ashenvale now in lore?

There are things and things.

I understand that Kaldorei zone cannot be updated and that they can only give us words.
But removing the Kaldorei from Storwind is possible. It is more that they are still bad because it breaks the idea of the Dragons doing tourism. Now the Dragons look like... bad people.

[xuros]

Takes a while to grow a tree big enough to have all those elves live in it!

[Lahis]

Takes a while to grow a tree big enough to have all those elves live in it!

With the time skip there has already been longer time from the burning of Teldrassil than what it took to grow it and build Darnassus in the first place.

[Shadowferal]

Not just night elves.
Dryads, furbolgs, human/Worgen, harpies, and one rather annoying satyr that I remember.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I like how in yet another thread a certain type of posters are once again pretending that simply making the surviving Orcs fuck off back to their place (you know, what was done in the a metric ton of wars across history) was somehow not an option. Even though, when Alliance then closed the Dark Portal anyway, they were under the impression they were doing that permanently

It’s my under standing that the dark portal was closed shortly after doom hammer was captured and that orc capturing was an on going process after it’s closure and even one of there major strong holds grim batol didn’t fall until years later.

So while they could have sent doom hammers forces back through that wouldn’t solve the problem of what to do with the orcs there would just be less of them.

[Raisei]

Takes a while to grow a tree big enough to have all those elves live in it!

Not if you have the Aspects of Time and Life on your side. Or at least I assume that is what will happen.

[Lahis]

Not if you have the Aspects of Time and Life on your side. Or at least I assume that is what will happen.

Bunch of druids grew out Teldrassil practically instantly without the help of Dragon Aspects.

With Ysera, Alexstrasza and Nozdormu around (and wouldn't bw shocked too see Elune and Winter Queen to make a cameo) , the new tree will practically pop into existence.

[Mehrunes]

I expected you earlier, but at least your unrepentent bias does not disappoint.

Of course. Just let the invading mass murdering aliens go. What could go wrong? It's not like they already reopened the portal to Azeroth once before or anything, right? Riiight. Seriously... do the Orcs strike you as the kind of people who go back home peacefully and pick up farming since the invasion didn't work out?

Obviously sending them back would have allowed them to return once they had replenished their numbers and kill another few thousand men, women and children. Do you seriously expect the human kingdoms to just hope they can beat them again? How stupidly naive do you think they are?

Ah, forget I asked, obviously they are drooling idiots in your eyes, since they aren't Horde members and when they actually make a smart decision like here, you fault them for that too. Huh, almost as if any human/Alliance people cannot do anything right in your eyes. Who would have thought?

I wouldn't talk about bias when you can't even comprehend "when Alliance then closed the Dark Portal anyway, they were under the impression they were doing that permanently". And no, in the time period in question, i.e. when the Alliance created the internment system, the Horde did not reopen any Dark Portals. Thanks for participating, but next time try to provide something new other than your very self-aware accusations of bias and no comprehension of lore you're attempting to discuss.

[xuros]

With the time skip there has already been longer time from the burning of Teldrassil than what it took to grow it and build Darnassus in the first place.

How long was the time skip?

[Mehrunes]

It’s my under standing that the dark portal was closed shortly after doom hammer was captured and that orc capturing was an on going process after it’s closure and even one of there major strong holds grim batol didn’t fall until years later.

So while they could have sent doom hammers forces back through that wouldn’t solve the problem of what to do with the orcs there would just be less of them.

And Doomhammer was captured with the stark majority of the Horde. Not far from the portal. Not that the Alliance had to close it right then and there or that closing it did them any favors in regards to capturing the stragglers. If anything, it only prevented them from fucking off on their own in light of the Horde's defeat. They could have even created temporary camps to first group the Orcs up and only then yeet them if they were too afraid of the first yeeted batch regrouping and coming back before they rounded up the remaining Orcs.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

And Doomhammer was captured with the stark majority of the Horde. Not far from the portal. Not that the Alliance had to close it right then and there or that closing it did them any favors in regards to capturing the stragglers. If anything, it only prevented them from fucking off on their own in light of the Horde's defeat. They could have even created temporary camps to first group the Orcs up and only then yeet them if they were too afraid of the first yeeted batch regrouping and coming back before they rounded up the remaining Orcs.

My memory of this stuff is a bit shaky as I haven’t touched up on it in years but I do believe that the alliance almost right after capturing doom hammer went through the portal to stop any further incursions which then lead to Ner’zhul blowing up the planet and the alliance needing to close the dark portal so it wouldn’t blow back onto Azeroth.

While there was surely some time between the defeat and capture of doom hammer and the destruction of Outland it really wasn’t a lot and likely under a year and I believe Ner’zhul had started the portal openings before the alliance went in.

[sam86]

There are things and things.

I understand that Kaldorei zone cannot be updated and that they can only give us words.
But removing the Kaldorei from Storwind is possible. It is more that they are still bad because it breaks the idea of the Dragons doing tourism. Now the Dragons look like... bad people.

wow gametime is stupid, u start in cata, but can go to tbc, or wrath, or mop, or even stay in cata zones to be hit with some bfa zones in cata (like tirisfal)
so game present is bad for what should be
and i still don't know who has Ashenvale now

[Lolites]

The Horde have done horrible things and while it has mostly been done under Garrosh or the undead, its still hard to get away from.

i dont think i ever seen anyone danying horde did horrible things (except trolls)
thing is alliance did some horrible things too, yet somehow thats either ignored, denied or (poorly) "justified" by people, and which is worse often retconed by devs, for no apparent reason...

also, love that a goddamn RACIAL PURGE, killing of innocent shopkeepers is laughed at, and "genn broke peace treaty" is there as a joke when its a fact he DID broke truce, against direct orders which he literaly says ingame... nice example of alliance bias...

[Nymrohd]

i dont think i ever seen anyone danying horde did horrible things (except trolls)
thing is alliance did some horrible things too, yet somehow thats either ignored, denied or (poorly) "justified" by people, and which is worse often retconed by devs, for no apparent reason...

also, love that a goddamn RACIAL PURGE, killing of innocent shopkeepers is laughed at, and "genn broke peace treaty" is there as a joke when its a fact he DID broke truce, against direct orders which he literaly says ingame... nice example of alliance bias...

Eh in the same manner there are some posters who excuse everything the Alliance does, there are posters (several in this thread alone) who do the same for the Horde. And while the Alliance has done shitty things, the Horde has done an order of magnitude more.

As for Dalaran, while I don't think Jaina herself was racist or that her reason for the purge was racial hatred (if there were Sunreavers of other factions they'd be purged as well), the Kirin Tor has historically been an organization that always tried to minimize elven power within Dalaran and the reasoning behind that has been a mixture of racism and nationalism (at the same time elves of Dalaran have often had a split loyalty between Dalaran and Silvermoon which does explain the nationalism but obviously not the racism).

[Sett]

This game is almost 20 years old. I thought people would have woken up to the obvious bias by now.

[Lahis]

How long was the time skip?

~3 years. Current year is 40 ADP. Teldrassil was burned 7 years ago at the start of BFA at 33 ADP.

For reference, Teldrassil was planted after the events of The Frozen Throne in 22 ADP, and WoW began at 25 ADP. So the whole giant tree was grown and the city of Darnassus (and smaller towns) were built in less than 3 years.

[geco]

wow gametime is stupid, u start in cata, but can go to tbc, or wrath, or mop, or even stay in cata zones to be hit with some bfa zones in cata (like tirisfal)
so game present is bad for what should be
and i still don't know who has Ashenvale now

It stayed in CATA mode in the lore and in the game.