How can we forgive Wrathion

[Myradin]

I feel like he needed to be in Legion, and probably in WoD. I know blizz is probably afraid of 'Wrathion Fatigue', but it seems odd how he's so tied to those events but is just oddly absent

[Maljinwo]

We dont, thats why we support Sabellian

[Nymrohd]

I feel like he needed to be in Legion, and probably in WoD. I know blizz is probably afraid of 'Wrathion Fatigue', but it seems odd how he's so tied to those events but is just oddly absent

Would have been cool if we had found Wrathion trapped in Argus, kidnapped by the Legion. I assume like Jaina that he was fighting somewhere.

While Legion was fun I wish they had not just kept the Legion Assaults from the pre-patch, they should have expanded them during the expac. Then people like Wrathion and Jaina could have had cameos in an Assault.

[Aucald]

I do really like the dynamic between Wrathion and Sabellian as it stands currently in Dragonflight. I mistrust Wrathion due to his prior actions in MoP and WoD, and I mistrust Sabellian because we can't really be sure if he or his peers from Outland still carry the corruption of the Old Gods within them. So the question really boils down to which of the two choices I distrust the least, as neither of them really represents an obvious choice in terms of backing them to become the next Aspect of Earth.

[Nymrohd]

The thing is Wrathion has spend every moment he's been alive thinking of how he can act as an Aspect and his priority has always been safeguarding Azeroth, however poorly he may have acted towards that goal. Sabellian and his people did not give a shit for helping Azeroth cause if they did, they'd have showed up at some point after N'zoth died instead of waiting for Dragon Isles and the opportunities they presented to show up. The purpose of the Aspects is to guard Azeroth, not to guard their flights.

[Aucald]

The thing is Wrathion has spend every moment he's been alive thinking of how he can act as an Aspect and his priority has always been safeguarding Azeroth, however poorly he may have acted towards that goal. Sabellian and his people did not give a shit for helping Azeroth cause if they did, they'd have showed up at some point after N'zoth died instead of waiting for Dragon Isles and the opportunities they presented to show up. The purpose of the Aspects is to guard Azeroth, not to guard their flights.

Which is one of the big issues with backing Sabellian for Aspect in my eyes. His behavior is entirely self-serving, and he seems a bad pick to saddle with the duties (and powers) of Aspect in terms of their role as stewards over Azeroth. Whereas Wrathion has good intentions with piss-poor judgment, Sabellian is highly likely to use the mantle of Aspect to further his own goals with his own flight as paramount, which means he's not going to make for a good Aspect. Whereas Wrathion would definitely try to use his Aspectral power to better Azeroth, I'm unsure if he can be trusted as to exactly how that power would be employed - like creating an army of servants that he loses control of.

[Mace]

This entire thing is criminal

The guy that tried having the two super powers wipe each other out and cause conflict bringing death to both each other and the natives of pandaria alike.

Then he gets the Iron horde going and they bring a massive teched up army and invade. Great losses and sacrifices for both sides

And that leads to The Burning Legion arriving at Azeorth. He just disappeared during the entire thing while they had Azeroth aflame. Then you have that whole Azerite story

Suddenly he appears out of nowhere and takes credit for our acomplishment. Oh, right wasn’t his whole deal to fight the Burning Legion? When did he switch to Old Gods?

I mean he has probably helped the jailer the most and committed worse atrocities than even Sylvanas. Varian dead. Maraad dead. Voljin dead. Tirion dead.

Throw him into the maw

The question is, who has the right to ask this question?


Bear in mind we'd have lost to N'zoth without him either

[Lolites]

Which we had to do to stop the invasion that was set in motion by Wrathion's actions.

but we didnt have to let him go, we should kill him right there...

[Arikara]

Of course you should not forgive Wrathion. He is a charismatic fool; all talk, and all incompetence.

Do not buy into whatever nonsense Blizzard will try to feed you about him. His mistakes cannot be overcome.

[Skirdus]

"Forced forgiveness" is a trend I'm really getting tired of in WoW specifically.

I don't want to work with Illidan. I don't want to work with Sylvanas. I don't want to work with Wrathion. I don't like any of these characters and see them moreso as villains - or at best, delusional idiots who think they're heroic - than heroes, so why does the game absolutely insist that these characters are my "friends" now, no matter what I myself actually think of them?

I honestly can't think of any other game where this sort of thing is an issue

[ZazuuPriest]

I'd say Wrathion's problem is less malice and more stupidity. He thinks he's the badass manipulator figure with the lofty goals, but he's actually just kind of an idiot who sucks at everything.

(Sablemane gang)

So hes Danuser

[Aucald]

"Forced forgiveness" is a trend I'm really getting tired of in WoW specifically.

I don't want to work with Illidan. I don't want to work with Sylvanas. I don't want to work with Wrathion. I don't like any of these characters and see them moreso as villains - or at best, delusional idiots who think they're heroic - than heroes, so why does the game absolutely insist that these characters are my "friends" now, no matter what I myself actually think of them?

I honestly can't think of any other game where this sort of thing is an issue

Working with a given NPC doesn't really mean you have to forgive them - sometimes one doesn't have a choice who they're forced to work with. Wrathion specifically doesn't have to be forgiven, either; especially since you can choose to side with Sabellian over him at any time.

[Jester Joe]

Wrathion did not cause the war in Pandaria. At best he prodded. He did not instigate any of the events there.
He was complicit when it came to the Iron Horde and he helped Kairoz along. What actually happened was fully on Garrosh though with Wrathion mostly keeping himself out.

He actually tried to end it faster by supporting the horde at first.

He thought the war was a waste of time and effort.

[Nymrohd]

Working with a given NPC doesn't really mean you have to forgive them - sometimes one doesn't have a choice who they're forced to work with. Wrathion specifically doesn't have to be forgiven, either; especially since you can choose to side with Sabellian over him at any time.

There is a difference between working with someone because you have to and being their best friend. The game does choose to consider such characters good friends by making such options in the dialogue which obviously robs people of agency. Things like the Alliance option to tell Vol'jin in 5.3 off should be far more common.

- - - Updated - - -

He actually tried to end it faster by supporting the horde at first.

He thought the war was a waste of time and effort.

He does say that he favored Garrosh early on but it's not like he gave either side any material support

[Aucald]

There is a difference between working with someone because you have to and being their best friend. The game does choose to consider such characters good friends by making such options in the dialogue which obviously robs people of agency. Things like the Alliance option to tell Vol'jin in 5.3 off should be far more common.

I've never encountered any dialogue that made me feel like I was forced to feel or react a certain way toward any NPC, to be honest. Usually, the dialogue is pretty neutral, with the occasional option to be more pointed or amiable depending on faction.

[Nymrohd]

Wrathion specifically keeps calling you "Friend"

[baskev]

This entire thing is criminal

The guy that tried having the two super powers wipe each other out and cause conflict bringing death to both each other and the natives of pandaria alike.

Then he gets the Iron horde going and they bring a massive teched up army and invade. Great losses and sacrifices for both sides

And that leads to The Burning Legion arriving at Azeorth. He just disappeared during the entire thing while they had Azeroth aflame. Then you have that whole Azerite story

Suddenly he appears out of nowhere and takes credit for our acomplishment. Oh, right wasn’t his whole deal to fight the Burning Legion? When did he switch to Old Gods?

I mean he has probably helped the jailer the most and committed worse atrocities than even Sylvanas. Varian dead. Maraad dead. Voljin dead. Tirion dead.

Throw him into the maw

We do not....i think you might have missed somethings. But many people are very warry of him. As show in the ingame story. But for now, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

[Arlette]

Which we had to do to stop the invasion that was set in motion by Wrathion's actions.

Or we just kill him because everybody, especially Khadgar, knows what Gul'dan is capable of.

- - - Updated - - -

???

The Iron Horde invasion on Azeroth was already ongoing (they entered Blasted Lands and took over upper Blackrock Mountain). If we didn't free him then we would not close down the portal. Invasion completely ended at that point and we took all the fight to the enemy. It would make more sense to say that we didn't manage to catch Gul'dan afterwards, and that helped BL invade Azeroth in Legion.

It didn't just help, it was THE thing that caused the invasion lol.

If you want to play this, in my opinion absolutely stupid and pointless, game of blaming people, Wrathion's actions caused the invasion of the Iron Horde and that was it. And almost nothing was lost on Azeroth from it.

The Legion's third invasion cost two world leaders and permanently damaged the planet.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Also Wrathion just STATING that he hoped Garrosh and the Horde would win but then swapped to hoping the Alliance would win...doesn't actually mean anything. It's not like he was actively helping the Horde OR Alliance during the war in Pandaria. He was entirely focused around learning more about the Titans and empowering himself. And empowering YOU. Because he (correctly) knew that the faction war was pointless nonsense and wanted someone from the Alliance OR Horde to end it. It's not like he stopped helping Horde players once Garrosh went full Fascist.

If he was like on the front lines actively fighting one faction or another or something then maybe I guess you could find fault with him, but all he did was say that he hoped one faction would win of another. That's not really anything. I find this complaint about him odd because of that. If you must find something to be upset at him for in MoP, I guess you could say his friendship with Anduin? But even then that falls under the same, "Who cares that didn't mean anything to the faction war or world as a whole" as hoping one faction would win.

[Amnaught]

By this logic the player character is the worst of all.

Khadgar and the player were the ones who freed Gul'dan which allowed him to gain control of the Iron Horde and launch the invasion of Azeroth.

Are we gonna glance over the genocide of Teldrassil for the express purpose of using civiian corpses as weapons for the Mawsworn?

[Aucald]

Wrathion specifically keeps calling you "Friend"

Which is more or less on Wrathion, not you. Wrathion can try to ingratiate himself to you all he likes, but the ultimate decision is still yours, both on a Watsonian and Doylist level.