Rotation bots have killed off the end game in FF

[Ghost of Cow]

This is yet another one of these completely stupid arguments where you dorks take everything to the extreme of each position just so you can beat each other over the head with outlandish hypotheticals and other nonsense.

Not sure why that's so common here, but damn.

[Yarathir]

This argument is indeed the weirdest shit ever. It's some Reddit-tier shit filled with "ackchually-ing" so you can draw it out and keep the disagreement going.

[Thestrawman]

Since there's no shortage of players here intentionally misconstruing what the terms of service are saying, I'll just paste an image of it outright.



No, it isn't allowed to deliberately choose to not continue playing your role to incapacitate others because you don't like other players in the group you are in.

Cool. Now do what I asked and find a single person who was actioned against for not tanking. Like I asked.

[Grinning Serpent]

Tell me you've never raided anything other than casual without actually saying it. That whole wall of text you felt compelled to send didn't say shit. Ass pulls don't get rewarded. The tank runs the show, if you pull shit without letting the tank know beforehand then you're playing on borrowed time. DPS queue times are long, so unless you want to double your wait time then i suggest you let the tank do ALL of the pulling. Know your role.

So, again, you're deliberately choosing to be a petty jackass and to make the healer's job harder because you have an ego problem?

You should maybe take a step back and engage in some self-reflection. This is not a normal, healthy way to behave.

[ippollite]

Are we purely talking story mode? Because... whm main (retired), i am constantly looking out for my healers on my bard to a deeply patronising level (none of them seem to mess up quite like i did, though!) But as a bard, i just whop out mage's ballad and can burn through several trash packs without remotely threatening the tank. So i have this small dilemma... do i pull another pack and go ham, or do i save that huge aoe burst and slowly whittle down groups, pack by pack? I'll be honest, at the start of the dungeon, im on best behaviour... if its a sprout tank, i will NEVER pull for them (they're literally there to learn to pull and tank - i wont deprive them of this), but if they aint... and we've cleared the first boss with no issues, i may... run in front of the tank and look at the next pack in a very obvious way... and i might... accidentally... tab target a dot into a pack we might not yet have pulled...

Negatives: Im being a naughty dps.
Positives: The healer gets to do something... the tank gets to do something out of their comfort zone. I pop a cd and everything gets nuked. Now everyone knows they can handle more than they think they can.

[OokOok]

So you make a thread about a youtube video that was made almost 4months ago to claim FFXIV's raid scene is "A ghost town"

Tell me you have an agenda without telling me you have an agenda.

WoW tards

[Cynical Asshole]

Just make the game easier to play. It's really that simple.

5 button basic rotation is enough.

x1 Debuff or self-buff.
x1 Spam-able resource generator.
x1 15-30 sec cd big hitter that requires resources.
x1 Main hitter that requires resources.
x1 Proc-based attack.

Then big cds, def cds, cc abilities.

This is how you create a fun and easy gameplay. You go overboard (*cough*WoW*cough*) and people will start complaining, more complex classes will start being actively avoided by most people (windwalker monk, feral druid), and yes you get rotation bots and any sort of automation that people can get their hands on.

Just make the game easy. Why is the target audience the keyboard athletes?!

[ippollite]

im so on board...! But i also worry...

Im watching pint going through the beginning dungeons in ew. He's 'fucking with this'. meanwhile, i was stressed as fuck doing said dungeons. Not from healing, but from mechanics. There was too much shit happening under my feet. But he's loving it. So i dunno what the solution is. I want all mechanics toned the hell down so i can just blast through them and heal at approproate junctures. He wants all the shit under his feet so his dungeon experience is exciting and engaging. Honestly, how do we reconcile this?

The playerbase is annoyingly diverse. Idiots like me want to be heal tested and have limited mechanics (stormblood). Players like pint want endless avoidance and snapshot windows (endwalker). Where on earth do we go to reconcile this? (in STORY MODE?). The disparity in not only skill, but expectations is... well, its incredibly vast.

[zertul]

So you make a thread about a youtube video that was made almost 4months ago to claim FFXIV's raid scene is "A ghost town"

Tell me you have an agenda without telling me you have an agenda.

WoW tards

It literally says in the first couple of sentences that this has been an issue since 2020.
So not only are you not capable of reading a few sentences, you also have the mental capacity of a wet wipe.
Talk about having an agenda lmao

[Thestrawman]

It literally says in the first couple of sentences that this has been an issue since 2020.
So not only are you not capable of reading a few sentences, you also have the mental capacity of a wet wipe.
Talk about having an agenda lmao

It's been an issue since 1987 since we're giving dates to completely fictitious events that don't happen.

[Jinpachi]

This is yet another one of these completely stupid arguments where you dorks take everything to the extreme of each position just so you can beat each other over the head with outlandish hypotheticals and other nonsense.

Not sure why that's so common here, but damn.

"you dorks"? Do you realize where you're posting? Take a look in a mirror

[Granyala]

And no, there's nothing inherent about being a tank that grants you some "right" to be the only one to initiate combat with enemies.

It kinda does if the mob puts you into a grave in 3 hits.
Any DPS with an intact survival instinct would refrain from pulling automatically.

If SE were to ask after I have been reported: the DPS pulled when I wasn't ready for more mobs. Case closed.

What you linked refers to a whole other problem of people boycotting to continue the run.
Believe it or not: I have had it happen that players didn't get loot for some reason and suddenly just went on a sitting strike until everyone else left. THAT's "no longer continuing to play your role" and that's most certainly an actionable offense.

[Pannonian]

It kinda does if the mob puts you into a grave in 3 hits.
Any DPS with an intact survival instinct would refrain from pulling automatically.

If SE were to ask after I have been reported: the DPS pulled when I wasn't ready for more mobs. Case closed.

What you linked refers to a whole other problem of people boycotting to continue the run.
Believe it or not: I have had it happen that players didn't get loot for some reason and suddenly just went on a sitting strike until everyone else left. THAT's "no longer continuing to play your role" and that's most certainly an actionable offense.

We're back at the generalization. Not all mobs put you in the grave in 3 hits. You can easily pull as dps in Expert (especially current), and the healer doesn't need to break a sweat. Heck if i got bloodbath up i can double pull without heal or tank if second dps is doing adequate damage. Does that work everywhere? Of course not, but that's the point where context, where are you and who is in your group becomes important. DPS pulling for sprout tanks in leveling instances are as unnecessary as tanks playing the "i'm the only one that pulls" card in an expert dungeon while the dps are fully savage geared.

Also this is not what was said. If a dps dies because they pulled and you didn't grab aggro, tough luck. If the same happens and you type in chat indicating that you let them die on purpose then it is most likely against the ToS, because that counts as grieving. This is essentially YPYT.

[Yarathir]

We're back at the generalization. Not all mobs put you in the grave in 3 hits. You can easily pull as dps in Expert (especially current), and the healer doesn't need to break a sweat. Heck if i got bloodbath up i can double pull without heal or tank if second dps is doing adequate damage. Does that work everywhere? Of course not, but that's the point where context, where are you and who is in your group becomes important. DPS pulling for sprout tanks in leveling instances are as unnecessary as tanks playing the "i'm the only one that pulls" card in an expert dungeon while the dps are fully savage geared.

Also this is not what was said. If a dps dies because they pulled and you didn't grab aggro, tough luck. If the same happens and you type in chat indicating that you let them die on purpose then it is most likely against the ToS, because that counts as grieving. This is essentially YPYT.

The funny thing is that, in the end, by doing that, you're still not pulling w2w.

[Pannonian]

The funny thing is that, in the end, by doing that, you're still not pulling w2w.

Read: With Bloodbath it is possible to double pull, which in current experts means W2W. Bloodbath has 1,5 min cd - does this paint a picture?

Also this wasn't about efficiency, but to provide a corrected statement to the wrong claim that a dps dies after 3 hits.

[Yarathir]

Read: With Bloodbath it is possible to double pull, which in current experts means W2W. Bloodbath has 1,5 min cd - does this paint a picture?

Also this wasn't about efficiency, but to provide a corrected statement to the wrong claim that a dps dies after 3 hits.

It paints a picture of a not-so-efficient run, yes.

Which effectively is the root of this entire argument.

[Pannonian]

It paints a picture of a not-so-efficient run, yes.

Which effectively is the root of this entire argument.

If the tank is already pulling wall to wall, we never come to the situation where the dps is pulling. The question was if there is an actual necessity for tanks. Efficiency was never in question.

I know this discussion is currently going on with different threads, but please don't ignore the context and interpret my message in a vacuum when it never was written that way. No need to raise up some strawmen to attack.

[Yarathir]

If the tank is already pulling wall to wall, we never come to the situation where the dps is pulling. The question was if there is an actual necessity for tanks. Efficiency was never in question.

I know this discussion is currently going on with different threads, but please don't ignore the context and interpret my message in a vacuum when it never was written that way. No need to raise up some strawmen to attack.

Just saying that if you're making dps pull W2W in order to deal with tanks not pulling effectively enough for you, that hardly seems like viable solution other than being spiteful.

[Pannonian]

Just saying that if you're making dps pull W2W in order to deal with tanks not pulling effectively enough for you, that hardly seems like viable solution other than being spiteful.

Still has nothing to do with what i was talking about, but to get to your scenario:

In this case, a dps or heal pulls the second pack back to the tank -> easy.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Being a tank does not entitle you to be the only one allowed to pull mobs. It's especially not reinforced in the TOS.

In fact, if you say in chat they're willfully letting someone die, as if you're trying to teach them a lesson, it's very likely you're actionable.

Also, if you need to single pull because you're dying, your healer is either god awful, you're undergeared, or you're not using cooldowns. Or some combination of those.

If you're undergeared, it's somewhat understandable. Just tell them you are undergeared. Or if your group is dying due to lack of healing, pretty certain people will understand single pulls after a wipe or two. But if you're just not using cooldowns? Come on bro. It's a couple of buttons. Just use rampart.