1. #13801
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    There is none, thats why we just compare real world people who are ripped/muscular
    Aesthetic choices are subjective and negotiable. You're entirely fine just saying "I'd like them to look like X", but that's as far as it goes - subjective preference. Objectively speaking, perpetuating a stereotype that super ripped body-builder types are either effective or realistic isn't healthy for either the actors involved or society in general, which has enough body-image issues to deal with as it is. Them toning it down a notch and not having everyone try to look like The Rock after a three-day sweat lodge session may simply not be such a bad thing.

  2. #13802
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    Bullshit. There's no basis for comparison, because those kinds of mutants don't exist. Which means the only reference you have are other pieces of fiction.

    And let's be clear: if there WERE people with superior strength, they'd be closer to what you see than they would be to a dehydrated, starved body builder, because muscle strength comes from density, not volume.

    The only thing you're saying is "he doesn't look like some other people I've seen in movies" - which, fair enough, he doesn't. You can like that or not like that, that's up to you. But in terms of what's best for the actors OR what's more realistic, what they're doing is better than the illusion other movies might bank on.
    Just to clarify you don’t need to be starved to get that “ripped super hero look” but you certainly need to be dehydrated(generally you’ll fast too but that’s far from starving) That’s what makes everything look “popped”. Just look at how boxers look at weigh in vs how they look the next day. It’s weird to me to try and have the characters that are suppose to look strong look so little and not bulky. Generally they just look weak/feeble to me. The “super hero look” or whatever we’re calling it here really only makes sense to me on speedsters, since they’re generally suppose to be strong and running that much would starve, dehydrate, and make you look ripped like that.
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  3. #13803
    Quote Originally Posted by Rtrain View Post
    It’s weird to me to try and have the characters that are suppose to look strong look so little and not bulky. Generally they just look weak/feeble to me.
    Mostly a result of fiction being the reference point. Very few people have enough knowledge of actual body performance to have that as a reference point instead.

    Sports is a double-edged sword there, by the way. On the one hand, it emphasizes performance and not aesthetics, so it gives a good baseline; but on the other hand, it's often very SPECIFIC kinds of performance, which skew the overall impression. For example, cyclists have massive leg muscles; boxers have higher upper-body muscle volume to help with explosive power; swimmers have particularly strong shoulders; and so on. Sports is effectively a game, and that means specific and largely arbitrary rules - to perform at the top level, you need to min/max around those rules.

    Martial arts is probably the closes to a "general" performance physique, as they tend to go into many different areas of performance including stamina, agility, strength, and several areas of the body, including both arms and legs, etc. Depending on the martial art in question there'll be biases there, too, of course, but by and large, it's one of the most general categories.

    And if you look at most martial artists, they look nothing like a "shredded" body. They're forged from iron and chiseled from granite, but they're not packed in a taut skin coating or bulging like a berry. That's MUCH closer to what a "real" superhero would look like, rather than a The Rock-type mega muscle monster. But it's not what traditional, Western superhero comic aesthetics look like, that's for sure. Whether or not films should replicate that, though, is up for debate. They certainly have toned down the spandex and glaring colors (another classical superhero-comics feature), makes sense they'd aim for more realism in body types, too.

  4. #13804
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    Aesthetic choices are subjective and negotiable. You're entirely fine just saying "I'd like them to look like X", but that's as far as it goes - subjective preference. Objectively speaking, perpetuating a stereotype that super ripped body-builder types are either effective or realistic isn't healthy for either the actors involved or society in general, which has enough body-image issues to deal with as it is. Them toning it down a notch and not having everyone try to look like The Rock after a three-day sweat lodge session may simply not be such a bad thing.
    Like i said, i don't advocate for another The rock, but saying anyone who is a body builder or just ripped is unhealthy, unrealistic and something similar could not be done is as much bogus

  5. #13805
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Like i said, i don't advocate for another The rock, but saying anyone who is a body builder or just ripped is unhealthy, unrealistic and something similar could not be done is as much bogus
    I'm glad I didn't say that, then. I said that it's not healthy for the actors, or for society - that's not the same as saying it's unhealthy for all people. A society less obsessed about extreme body shapes is a good thing; as is actors not being forced to undergo strenuous forms of dehydration and fasting for extended periods of time. Are you saying those are NOT good things?

  6. #13806
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    Martial arts is probably the closes to a "general" performance physique, as they tend to go into many different areas of performance including stamina, agility, strength, and several areas of the body, including both arms and legs, etc. Depending on the martial art in question there'll be biases there, too, of course, but by and large, it's one of the most general categories.

    And if you look at most martial artists, they look nothing like a "shredded" body. They're forged from iron and chiseled from granite, but they're not packed in a taut skin coating or bulging like a berry. That's MUCH closer to what a "real" superhero would look like, rather than a The Rock-type mega muscle monster. But it's not what traditional, Western superhero comic aesthetics look like, that's for sure. Whether or not films should replicate that, though, is up for debate. They certainly have toned down the spandex and glaring colors (another classical superhero-comics feature), makes sense they'd aim for more realism in body types, too.
    shang-chi actor by example, looked pretty good

  7. #13807
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Like i said, i don't advocate for another The rock, but saying anyone who is a body builder or just ripped is unhealthy, unrealistic and something similar could not be done is as much bogus
    That's not what people said.

    What people said was the super-cut look of Hemsworth's and Evans' shirtless scenes (among others) were the result of unhealthy, unrealistic dehydration and fasting that would have left them unable to functionally do action scenes due to factors like dizziness.

    That's not how they looked for most of the shoot. It's something you do for a couple days to get the shots and then you stop because it's unhealthy.


  8. #13808
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    I'm glad I didn't say that, then. I said that it's not healthy for the actors, or for society - that's not the same as saying it's unhealthy for all people. A society less obsessed about extreme body shapes is a good thing; as is actors not being forced to undergo strenuous forms of dehydration and fasting for extended periods of time. Are you saying those are NOT good things?
    But they are heroes, not normal people, they should look good, people should look hot, or whatever

    Like i said, they could have picked an actor who could do the workout and be ripped without any damage to his healthy, but the problem is finding an good acor who can do that.
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2022-11-24 at 04:28 AM.

  9. #13809
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    But they are heroes, not normal people, they should look good, people should look hot, or whatever

    Like i said, they could have picked an actor who could do the workout and be ripped without any damage to his healthy
    They did. That's Huerta. He is ripped. He literally did the 5+ months of constant training and prep that you're claiming he didn't do.

    We've been over this.


  10. #13810
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    shang-chi actor by example, looked pretty good
    This Shang Chi.. who doesn't look bigger or more shredded then Tenoch Huerta, Chang Chi?



    and btw, I'm not saying he looked bad, he looked incredible. but SO DOES TENOCH HUERTA.

    and the only reason I'm replying to you is because its as good of an excuse as any to post Simu Liu.

    P.S. they picked an actor who could act the part first and foremost. and then said actor trained his ass of to look the part. which he DOES. and before the mention of CGI again that apparently they should have used for water scenes, instead of actor working is ass off to be able to perform those scenes - are you all serious? do you KNOW how much that shit costs or how long it takes? weren't you all the ones ripping into Marvel CGI before, and yet you want them to CGI all of the water scenes now? SERIOUSLY?
    Last edited by Witchblade77; 2022-11-24 at 04:32 AM.

  11. #13811
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    This Shang Chi.. who doesn't look bigger or more shredded then Tenoch Huerta, Chang Chi?



    and btw, I'm not saying he looked bad, he looked incredible. but SO DOES TENOCH HUERTA.
    Yeah, I'm kind of baffled about why he picked up Simu Liu here. Who had that physique well before he was cast in the MCU and didn't really need focused training; he was a martial artist and stunt guy before he got into acting proper.

    and the only reason I'm replying to you is because its as good of an excuse as any to post Simu Liu.
    How about a scene from before he was cast as Shang-Chi, in Kim's Convenience, a silly little sitcom here in Canadaland?



    Image absolutely chosen because of the subtitle.


  12. #13812
    I'd like to point out that the guy who has spent the last several pages arguing on behalf of someone else about an opinion he doesn't even 100% share made this statement earlier this morning:

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Saying other opinions is wrong, or how he should not dislike something, or saying its invalid to dislike something because bs is bogus, Literally arguing for the ske of argue.
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

  13. #13813
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Yeah, I'm kind of baffled about why he picked up Simu Liu here. Who had that physique well before he was cast in the MCU and didn't really need focused training; he was a martial artist and stunt guy before he got into acting proper.



    How about a scene from before he was cast as Shang-Chi, in Kim's Convenience, a silly little sitcom here in Canadaland?



    Image absolutely chosen because of the subtitle.
    to the first and despite all that - dude does NOT have that roided up, dehydrated look - if you look at him vs Tenoch? VERY similar build

    and lol to the second one - fair enough

    but seriously this idea that a mutant HAS to look super extra buff and shredded, despite his mutations have nothing to do with that, just because comic book artists exaggerate EVERYTHING, is just so silly. I'm also guessing that these people have never been to a museum and didn't have a look at statues representing greek/roman GODS. and last but not least - ROCK doesn't look that shredded constantly either. he looks big, yes. but here's a pic of him training for black adam

    omg... he has... tiny love handles... and his back is not showing every muscle fiber despite him flexing. what is this world coming to????? (I'm being sarcastic in case its not blatantly obvious)

  14. #13814
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    But they are heroes, not normal people, they should look good, people should look hot, or whatever
    See what you're doing here is implying that "looking hot" means what YOU think it means, namely being shredded AF. But that's just another preference. It's fine if YOU think that's hot, that doesn't mean it IS hot - it's just what you consider hot. Which is fine, but has little bearing on anyone but you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Like i said, they could have picked an actor who could do the workout and be ripped without any damage to his healthy, but the problem is finding an good acor who can do that.
    The point people are making is they didn't have to, because the one they have is totally fine. You disagree. Cool. But again this only means "I'd rather have seen a more ripped body", which is cool, but has no bearing on anyone but you.

  15. #13815
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    See what you're doing here is implying that "looking hot" means what YOU think it means, namely being shredded AF. But that's just another preference. It's fine if YOU think that's hot, that doesn't mean it IS hot - it's just what you consider hot. Which is fine, but has little bearing on anyone but you.
    "hero body" is something that people like to see in the movies, it not just a "me" thing.

    And yes, it has no bearing on anyone else, gladly i didn't try to put that way, or tried to say how people liking the actor are wrong.

    The point people are making is they didn't have to, because the one they have is totally fine. You disagree. Cool. But again this only means "I'd rather have seen a more ripped body", which is cool, but has no bearing on anyone but you.
    They didn't had to, they didn't had to do a lot of things, doesn't men they can't, they just choose not to, like i said, i also think he is completely fine, but the other way i think it would be much cooler.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    I'd like to point out that the guy who has spent the last several pages arguing on behalf of someone else about an opinion he doesn't even 100% share made this statement earlier this morning:
    And you guys just prove my point by issenantly doubling down on something so minor.

    Dude said he didn't like something, or i said is bogus if people attack someone else opinion for something so subjective, and here we are with at least four people arguing about it, when im not even saying he was bad or was bad for the role .


    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    This Shang Chi.. who doesn't look bigger or more shredded then Tenoch Huerta, Chang Chi?
    For shangchi i think he is fine yeah.

    but SO DOES TENOCH HUERTA.
    Like i said, i think he looked fine, but seeing Namor, images of him in the comics with the "hero body", i think it could be better, another actor, cgi, boy suit, plenty of options.
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2022-11-24 at 06:08 AM.

  16. #13816
    Here's how Henry Cavill gets himself into that shredded state:

    https://www.menshealth.com/health/a3...s-dehydration/
    Cavill said four days prior to filming a shirtless scene, he allows himself to drink a liter and a half of water. The next day, he drinks half a liter. But on day three, he goes completely without water and doesn’t drink water until shooting wraps on the fourth day.
    This is not a maintainable lifestyle for an entire movie shoot...unless of course you believe they can shoot the entire movie in a single day.

    The practice is dangerous, to say the very least. Dehydration can cause fatigue, dizziness and confusion in adults. Experts agree that the average person can only survive about three days with zero water intake. At least 60 percent of the human body is made of water, making water essential to healthy functioning.
    On top of that... consider the irony of asking the actor that plays Namor to dehydrate himself just so he can look more ripped without a shirt.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post

    Dude said he didn't like something, or i said is bogus if people attack someone else opinion for something so subjective, and here we are with at least four people arguing about it, when im not even saying he was bad or was bad for the role .
    So, you aren't even arguing a point that you really believe in...and yet you still point the finger that it's everyone else that's "arguing for the sake of arguing".

    No sale.
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

  17. #13817
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    So, you aren't even arguing a point that you really believe in...and yet you still point the finger that it's everyone else that's "arguing for the sake of arguing".
    Again, just proving my point even further, now you want to argue over that, previously, you even put Henry Cavill quote, pretending i want the actor to go trough the same.

    I personally think there are serious issues to be talk about Namor, just like this edit in the movie:




  18. #13818
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Again, just proving my point even further, now you want to argue over that, previously, you even put Henry Cavill quote, pretending i want the actor to go trough the same.
    I didn't mention you in that thing with Henry Cavill at all...that was entirely separate from my response to your quote.

    I was just detailing what an actor has to do to get that "shredded" look...and why it is not something anyone should expect someone to maintain for long periods.

    I personally think there are serious issues to be talk about Namor, just like this edit in the movie:



    Yeah sure, bulge-gate is a "serious issue"
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

  19. #13819
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    Yeah sure, bulge-gate is a "serious issue"
    Funny how you can't detec obvious sarcasm.

    I just wonder who had to sit trough all the scenes and edit this out, when honestly, thing should be left the way it is. I think they did the same with Vision.

  20. #13820
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Funny how you can't detec obvious sarcasm.

    I just wonder who had to sit trough all the scenes and edit this out, when honestly, thing should be left the way it is. I think they did the same with Vision.
    It's called Poe's Law.


    Avoid sarcasm and facetious remarks.

    Without the voice inflection and body language of personal communication these are easily misinterpreted. A sideways smile, :-), has become widely accepted on the net as an indication that "I'm only kidding". If you submit a satiric item without this symbol, no matter how obvious the satire is to you, do not be surprised if people take it seriously.[8]
    You took no steps to identify your post as sarcasm.

    In your case, considering you've just spent the last several pages arguing that Namor should "look more ripped"... it's not difficult to see why I might take you seriously about being upset about Namor's bulge-reduction. You and your buddy really do seem to have a problem with Namor not having enough sex appeal for your tastes.
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

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