1. #13821
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Darkshore, Killing Living and Dead elves
    Posts
    19,268
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post

    You took no steps to identify your post as sarcasm.
    And here i though the word "serious" on a bulge shot would be easy identified as sarcasm.

    like i said, arguing for the sake of argue
    In your case, considering you've just spent the last several pages arguing that Namor should "look more ripped"...
    Nah, i spend several pages replying to pointless arguments over said remark, while still saying the current one is fine. People just can't let it go, like you did here.

    You and your buddy really do seem to have a problem with Namor not having enough sex appeal for your tastes.
    Which if it was the case, what would be the problem? not rly a good insinuation

  2. #13822
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    "hero body" is something that people like to see in the movies, it not just a "me" thing.
    You're again just substituting another subjective term. What does that even mean, "hero body"? And of course it's not JUST you - I'm sure some other people share your preference. Maybe even a substantial number. That doesn't make it not a preference, just one shared among many people. And those preferences change, all the time, and easily.

    What you're asking for may be your preference, but it's also a bit unreasonable - not just because it endangers the health of actors (and the fact that people CAN do it doesn't mean it's good for them) but also because it proliferates the use of body-image stereotypes that we as a society should probably emancipate ourselves from. Sure they have their own history, their own associated aesthetics - so did wasp waists at some point. That doesn't mean they're something we as a society trying to better ourselves should perpetuate.

    That they cast the role as they did is a GOOD thing overall, because it works against a kind of aesthetic that has a lot of problems attached to it. And you and many other people may prefer something else (and that's your right), but your preference doesn't make this any less problematic.

  3. #13823
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    ]Nah, i spend several pages replying to pointless arguments over said remark, while still saying the current one is fine. People just can't let it go, like you did here.
    Even if what you said was true...arguing against pointless arguing is still pointless arguing.

    Which if it was the case, what would be the problem? not rly a good insinuation
    Oh, I guess you didn't get the "obvious sarcasm" there, lol.
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

  4. #13824
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Darkshore, Killing Living and Dead elves
    Posts
    19,268
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    You're again just substituting another subjective term. What does that even mean, "hero body"?
    Is "hero body" a subjective term? i though it is know to be the body most heroes have in comics

    What you're asking for may be your preference, but it's also a bit unreasonable - not just because it endangers the health of actors (and the fact that people CAN do it doesn't mean it's good for them) but also because it proliferates the use of body-image stereotypes that we as a society should probably emancipate ourselves from. Sure they have their own history, their own associated aesthetics - so did wasp waists at some point. That doesn't mean they're something we as a society trying to better ourselves should perpetuate.
    Right, but that is again, assuming anyone with a muscular or ripped body get that by jeopardizing their own health, not always, it can be done without risks hell, i think even CGI can help that.

    That they cast the role as they did is a GOOD thing overall, because it works against a kind of aesthetic that has a lot of problems attached to it. And you and many other people may prefer something else (and that's your right), but your preference doesn't make this any less problematic.
    I don't think picking someone who is ripped or muscular to a role who demand the kind of body is "problematic", that is the thing that we draw the line here.

  5. #13825
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Right, but that is again, assuming anyone with a muscular or ripped body get that by jeopardizing their own health, not always, it can be done without risks hell, i think even CGI can help that.
    I'm not sure you understand what the problem with perpetuating potentially harmful body images is. It's not just about "is that actor putting their health at risk" (and many absolutely are), but it's also about it creating an unrealistic image that messes with OTHER, NORMAL PEOPLE. It's the same with model bodies for females - sure, some models can handle the stick-figure physique (even though, again, many also suffer serious problems) but the bigger issue is that it fucks up women's and especially teenage girls' self image and causes harm TO THEM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    I don't think picking someone who is ripped or muscular to a role who demand the kind of body is "problematic", that is the thing that we draw the line here.
    No. The problem is thinking that the role DEMANDS that kind of body. That is the kind of collective responsibility I'm talking about, where we as a society start being more sensible about things and don't just DEMAND such things, implicitly or explicitly. YOU may be demanding such bodies for these roles - I sure don't. In fact I find them gross and misshapen, which is why I hate stuff with The Rock in it. He looks like a balloon animal. But that's my preference, and while it aligns with my larger point, I make that point not because of my preference, but because of other, more objective reasons.

  6. #13826
    There's a difference between having a film only have skinny beautiful people in it and showing someone beyond human as looking beyond (normal) human. There's always going to be some mentally ill person try and become someone they idolize which is why you got people filing thier teeth to be more pointy to look like a vampire or docking their ears to look like and elf.

  7. #13827
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Darkshore, Killing Living and Dead elves
    Posts
    19,268
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    I'm not sure you understand what the problem with perpetuating potentially harmful body images is. It's not just about "is that actor putting their health at risk" (and many absolutely are), but it's also about it creating an unrealistic image that messes with OTHER, NORMAL PEOPLE. It's the same with model bodies for females - sure, some models can handle the stick-figure physique (even though, again, many also suffer serious problems) but the bigger issue is that it fucks up women's and especially teenage girls' self image and causes harm TO THEM.
    And this is a superhero movie, not real world, it is supposed to have unrealistic images, you are going to put everyone fat or just normal looking because it may cause people who harm their own body trying to achieve that? People are going to do that regardless of who you put there.

    But this reason, they should stop making hero movies, cause hre is always people trying to jump out of Windows thinking they have superpowers


    No. The problem is thinking that the role DEMANDS that kind of body. That is the kind of collective responsibility I'm talking about, where we as a society start being more sensible about things and don't just DEMAND such things, implicitly or explicitly.
    If in the comic the hero has certain appearance, there is no problem in saying the job demands it

    YOU may be demanding such bodies for these roles - I sure don't. In fact I find them gross and misshapen, which is why I hate stuff with The Rock in it. He looks like a balloon animal. But that's my preference, and while it aligns with my larger point, I make that point not because of my preference, but because of other, more objective reasons.
    The rock looked perfectly for the role of black adam, if you ignore his baldness, cause the character is ripped, unlike shazan who look like a clown in his first movie.

    Saying someone looks gross and misshapen is sure more problematic than saying a hero should look like he does in the comics

  8. #13828
    i havent seen wakanda forever yet but i still stand by my opinion that they really shouldve recast t'challa.

    killing iron man is one thing, it sucks for future storylines but weve had so many movies with tony stark im okay with that character going in the fridge.

    t'challa? dont get me wrong boseman did a great job and he should be honored but we got TWO movies where t'chala had a large role and thats it.

    its not fair to the mcu that such an important and rich character has to be fridged for who knows how long just because a real person died.

    im sure when i go see wakanda forever next week ill like it, i may even love it, but i can guarantee you no matter how good that movie is, id enjoy it more if i were seeing namor fight t'chala instead of shuri and ironheart
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

  9. #13829
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    And this is a superhero movie, not real world, it is supposed to have unrealistic images, you are going to put everyone fat or just normal looking because it may cause people who harm their own body trying to achieve that? People are going to do that regardless of who you put there.

    But this reason, they should stop making hero movies, cause hre is always people trying to jump out of Windows thinking they have superpowers
    If your response to a very real contemporary problem is nothing but dismissive hyperbole, I'm not sure the conversation needs to continue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    If in the comic the hero has certain appearance, there is no problem in saying the job demands it
    Sure there is, because there's TONS of other incongruities that don't match up with the comics, and that no one would expect to (least of all demand). Yet those you are fine ignoring and not even thinking about, while singling out this particular one. That's at best hypocritical, at worst ignorant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Saying someone looks gross and misshapen is sure more problematic than saying a hero should look like he does in the comics
    That's also not what I said. I said "I FIND them gross and misshapen", and made it abundantly clear that this is purely my subjective preference, and that this preference is not why I make my argument. You seem to be struggling with the distinction between expressing preference and asserting fact.

  10. #13830
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Darkshore, Killing Living and Dead elves
    Posts
    19,268
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    If your response to a very real contemporary problem is nothing but dismissive hyperbole, I'm not sure the conversation needs to continue.
    If you think the "hyperbole" doesn't happen, you are ignoring reality, like the person above mention, people change their bodies to look like vampires and elves, doesn't mean elves in movies should no longer have pointy ears, yeah, some people will go crazy because they want to be like superheroes, but changing how they look will not solve the issue of body dysphoria and other problems. It can alleviate? perhaps, i don't have studies on that account.

    Sure there is, because there's TONS of other incongruities that don't match up with the comics, and that no one would expect to (least of all demand). Yet those you are fine ignoring and not even thinking about, while singling out this particular one. That's at best hypocritical, at worst ignorant.
    I don't demand, the job does. Some things are ignored, doesn't mean everything should be. The 'demand" of the actor looking like he does in the comics is not problematic.
    That's also not what I said. I said "I FIND them gross and misshapen", and made it abundantly clear that this is purely my subjective preference, and that this preference is not why I make my argument. You seem to be struggling with the distinction between expressing preference and asserting fact.
    You are the one who said someone wanting to see an actor ripped to a movie when the character is ripped to be as problematic subjective opinion, but you think is fine to have a subjective opinion about other people bodies being gross and misshapen, yet you accuse me of being hypocritical.

  11. #13831
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    I don't demand, the job does. Some things are ignored, doesn't mean everything should be. The 'demand" of the actor looking like he does in the comics is not problematic.
    Wrong. The job doesn't "demand" anything - how it's interpreted is up to the producers in charge. Everyone is totally fine not reproducing, say, the silly spandex costumes in glaring neon colors in a movie, but somehow you're saying the comic-book superbod must be on screen as though that was some kind of self-evident fact. It's not. It's up for debate just like any other trait when it comes to adaptation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    You are the one who said someone wanting to see an actor ripped to a movie when the character is ripped to be as problematic subjective opinion, but you think is fine to have a subjective opinion about other people bodies being gross and misshapen, yet you accuse me of being hypocritical.
    Because you make your preference into your argument, and I do not. My preference isn't the argument. Other things are. For you, preference is all there is. You're trying to PRETEND like it's not (see above), but you have nothing objective to offer.

  12. #13832
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Darkshore, Killing Living and Dead elves
    Posts
    19,268
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    Wrong. The job doesn't "demand" anything - how it's interpreted is up to the producers in charge. Everyone is totally fine not reproducing, say, the silly spandex costumes in glaring neon colors in a movie, but somehow you're saying the comic-book superbod must be on screen as though that was some kind of self-evident fact. It's not. It's up for debate just like any other trait when it comes to adaptation.
    Yet, somehow, they are trying to make heroes look more and more like the ones in the comics, from costumes to appearance(in the last aspect they are making sure to go into another route now, but that is another tangent)

    Spiderman still have his silly spandex in red and blue and people love it, why its "problematic" for wanting more like the comics? CGI is there to help nowadays. We don't need Ferrigno by example, to do Hulk anymore.


    Because you make your preference into your argument, and I do not. My preference isn't the argument. Other things are. For you, preference is all there is. You're trying to PRETEND like it's not (see above), but you have nothing objective to offer.
    No, no rly, i just said wanting that is not problematic, at all. People wanted because is their subjective opinion (nowhere i said its all there is or it is a fact or whatever), and there is nothing wrong with that.

    You are way too clouded in this, i even said the actor is fine, this is not a matter of "my preference into the argument", saying a more ripped actor would be cooler is not problematic, its not like said he looked gross in the movie.

  13. #13833
    lot of homoerotic undertones in this thread

  14. #13834
    Elemental Lord
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    8,440
    the Guardians of the Galaxy Holiday special was pretty good, imo. Some pretty interesting reveals throughout, and a nice little heartwarming story to go with it.

  15. #13835
    Immortal Darththeo's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away
    Posts
    7,806
    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    the Guardians of the Galaxy Holiday special was pretty good, imo. Some pretty interesting reveals throughout, and a nice little heartwarming story to go with it.
    Honestly, it worked as a fun story. Though, it was done in a way where if Disney wanted it, they could say the story is non-canon, but the reveals are canon.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  16. #13836
    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    the Guardians of the Galaxy Holiday special was pretty good, imo. Some pretty interesting reveals throughout, and a nice little heartwarming story to go with it.
    I enjoyed the first half of it a lot and the second half less so. That said I seem to be in the minority so I'll leave it there.

  17. #13837
    Holiday Special was, eh, okay I guess. A bit too much music for my taste - two full songs, effectively, in a ~40-minute thing? Maybe that's just Disney.

    Also don't like they split two people off for so much of it. A lot of the Guardians humor comes from banter between them, this kind of limited that potential without too good a reason. I get they wanted to keep it secret from Peter, but it might have been more fun with more Guardians maybe.

    It's of course not meant to be anything but a silly one shot, but I can't help but feel they could have done a bit more with it. Maybe my expectations are just too high.

  18. #13838
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    the problem here is not merely with your subjective dislike of the physique. the problem is with your assertion that he "clearly" didn't put as much time in the gym as those other actors, when we CLEARLY know that 1. he has and we have videos and interviews with his personal trainer as proof. 2. the reason for those actors looking extra shredded in rare shirtless scenes is due to unsustainable, damaging techniques they use to create the illusion of being extra shredded.

    you are not just expressing opinions. you are making false claims, based on unrealistic expectations.
    Unrealistic my ass. Maybe if you're lazy, sure. Walk into any GYM and you'll see guys and girls twice as big, with more definition who aren't juicing. Actors who get into amazing shape and then gripe and complain later that it's unrealistic simply aren't cut out for it. Is it hard work, yes, but ever heard of no pain, no gain? I just read an interview with Tenoch Huerta where he couldn't wait to start eating tacos again, no joke. That tells you he's just not the athletic type (obviously if he put in 100% to look like that.)

    If he's not athletically-inclined, that's perfectly fine, but don't take on an iconic role, and then bitch once you become a household name because you can't maintain the couch potato lifestyle, and then look less than impressive in said role.

    All it takes is diet, cardio, lifting, and exercising. You really don't have to kill yourself to look better than Tenoch Huerta. Any pro athlete will tell you that. If his physique is the pinnacle of what human beings should physically aspire to look like, then you have ridiculously low standards. That or you want to peddle that bullshit off your moral high horse. The man is playing a superhero, modern day mythological figures based on the Greek archetypes that reflected an exceptional aesthetic visage, not "bro do you even lift?" I got bigger arms than him from lifting floor mats from an old job I had with a catering company, and I wasn't "killing myself" so, just stop.

    Pro wrestlers look much better, and are essentially actors on top of it all and their biggest complaint isn't hitting the GYM, it's actually the bumps, wear, and tear from hitting the mat. He got paid to look the part, and barely has a six pack to show for it with those limp arms. He should be ashamed, and you should be ashamed for having grossly low standards.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Where am I on my high horse in that post? I'm just pointing out that your standards for how comic book characters should look is very distorted. What was bad faith about that? Not sure why you're so defensive over it. Your entire issue here is thinking one guy isn't shredded enough to be believable. I could argue that is perfect for a comic book character, since they don't have realistic body standards in the first place.

    - - - Updated - - -


    If only you were reflective enough to see how this applies to people like you, too. All you do is whinge about something incessantly, making sure anyone saying anything positive knows that they're somehow wrong and should join you on the negative side, rather than just move on with your life to things you might enjoy.
    So as not to repeat myself, I'll address what is actually relevant. I don't care if you join me in my opinion. I actually DON'T WANT you to, we are complete polar opposites, night and day, oil and water, and it should stay that way. I'm not trying to convince you to share in my opinion, I sure as hell don't want to share in yours. Feel free to discuss it, and I'll likewise disagree with you, but the moment you try to tell me I'm wrong, you'll get a big middle finger for your troubles. If you know you can't change my opinion, God knows you're not quite clever enough to succeed, take your own advice. Move on with your life to things you might enjoy. Playing gatekeeper to Tenoch Huerta's Namor isn't it, I hope.

  19. #13839
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    It's of course not meant to be anything but a silly one shot...
    I mean, sure, it was "just a one shot" if you ignore all the plot bombshells they dropped. Like having purchased Knowhere and turning it into their personal base of operations, that Mantis is Peter's half-sister, or that the Go-Bots are a part of the MCU and that Drax has a personal beef with them. There was one other thing, but it's slipping my mind at the moment. I believe it was revealed during the police scene, but my memory is betraying me right now.

    Sure, you can call at least one of them a joke, but that doesn't negate that it's canon or that the other two things are a Big Deal™.

    Oh, and also if you completely ignore the end credits scene which strongly suggests that it's definitely not just a one-shot.

    That said, it was just a cute little thing, but not something I will personally be watching every year unlike A Christmas Story or the two Muppets Christmas movies. But there was some meat in the story even if you don't want to acknowledge any of it.

    Edit: I remember what the other reveal was: That Batman and a few other DC characters exists as comic book characters in-universe.
    Last edited by Rocksteady 87; 2022-11-27 at 03:27 PM.

  20. #13840
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    So, no actual answers, just being so defensive you felt you had to attack. Gotcha.

    As I enjoy Marvel movies, for the most part, I reckon I'm in the right place. No moving on required. Certainly no gatekeeping going on lol
    I enjoy them, but at the same time I don't have to adore every single aspect of every project. I'm sure there are things you dislike from certain Marvel movies I wouldn't care to say you have a wrong or invalid opinion on. Difference of opinions is what makes a discussion. Agree to disagree and simply move on.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •