The accumulation of health vulnerabilities and economic problems caused by Covid and the effects of the Ukraine war. By the way I'm not saying that nobody died exclusively due to the heat waves, I'm saying that you should be skeptical of sources that pull numbers out of a hat where the accuracy of the number cannot be tested by third parties.
Just because they mention a factor that does not mean that they are correct in regards to how they interpret the importance of the factor. If a source does not give you a testable explanation in regards to how they arrived at their death toll then that means you should be skeptical in regards to how they determine and categorize death tolls.
So in regards to the claim that 20k Europeans died recently because of heat waves do you think that is a scientific claim or a scientific truth? If they gave a testable explanation of their conclusion then could you point me to it? How is it even possible for scientists or a third party to test this kind of claim?
Last edited by PC2; 2022-11-24 at 07:48 PM.
For that most of the explanation could easily be about climate change. A part of it could be due to stochastic happenstance and a part of it could be about the fact that society finds more sensitive ways of measuring the world and categorizing events over time. Trying to explain that phenomena is less problematic than the issue of heat wave death because answering that question is mostly about understanding the principles of physics and it involves much less interpretations about society and how we should categorize human death tolls.
Last edited by PC2; 2022-11-24 at 09:03 PM.
Last edited by PC2; 2022-11-24 at 09:14 PM.
No you have that backwards, a source claiming to be an authority over truth or science needs to show their homework. The onus is not on the skeptic. They need to make it so anyone can easily check those "20,000 European heat wave deaths" with 20,000 death certificates where we can study the COD to see if the first and primary cause of death was death by heat wave in every case.
No I really am trying to figure out how I can convert climate change alarmists and environmentalists into optimists who are excited about the future of our planet. What do you think is the best way to counter pessimism here?
Last edited by PC2; 2022-11-25 at 02:24 PM.
Science doesn't rely on "authority". It relies on consensus. You continue to demonstrate a complete inability to grasp basic concepts.
Also, their "homework" is publicly available. That's how, y'know, consensus forms.
If you want to contest the consensus? It absolutely fuckin' is.The onus is not on the skeptic.
That's not how anything works, no. If you want to contest their results and look over the millions of death certificates involved to figure out if there's a different pattern, by all means go ahead. It isn't a requirement, any more than we'd expect biologists to be able to individually count and name every single individual beetle of a given species before giving an estimate of their total population based on statistical assessments.They need to make it so anyone can easily check those "20,000 European heat wave deaths" with 20,000 death certificates where we can study the COD to see if the first and primary cause of death was death by heat wave in every case.
That you're describing it as "conversion", rather than "convincing", demonstrates unsurprising undertones. There is no need to "counter pessimism". Nor is optimism "correct" in any objective sense. Unless you've got actual facts and data to back up your claims, you're not gonna convince anyone of anything. You're gonna keep getting called out for trying to sell your snake-oil.No I really am trying to figure out how I can convert climate change alarmists and environmentalists into optimists who are excited about the future of our planet. What do you think is the best way to counter pessimism here?
We need realists, not optimists.
We'd have less pessimists if we had more realists.
Last edited by Dezerte; 2022-11-25 at 03:13 PM.
"In order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance." Paradox of tolerance