So night elves are now elemental chaos elves???!

[Jindujun]

[snip](Luckily they removed the part where they help the Horde directly.)[snip]"

That sounds interesting, do you have any links where i can read about this removed bit?

[Hobbidaggy]

Pretty sure the beta play through I did was a mixture of races you could literally replace your “night elf” portion with any other race and it would still make sense. Maybe the random NPC generator spat out a few more night elves on your respawn when you were playing. But they certainly are not “elemental night elves dominant”

[geco]

That sounds interesting, do you have any links where i can read about this removed bit?

It was 4 years ago.
But in the original idea. The Bronze Dragons were the ones that brought the Orcs from Drenor.

In other words, instead of talking to a male Eternal-Night, you were talking to the Nozdormu "wife".

I don't know if the link works for you.
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...e-horde/328683

PD: Search "bronze dragon help horde"

[Eurhetemec]

They don't really though. It's not like the Twilight Hammer which really has people from every single race. Primalists very much are Night Elves, Trolls, Tauren. It's possible former titanforged are not even welcome. I mean we have Koroleth, Melidrussa, Dathea, Kadros who are Night Elves, Kokia, Embar and Kurog who are tauren and Khajin and Erkhart who are trolls. The only important named Primalist who is not of those four races is the elemental furbolg.

All this sounds like is that most Primalists are from more nature-focused races, which well, make sense, doesn't it?

[Tanaria]

With all due respect, night elves only have a few named leaders.
Judging from the pre-event, most members of the Primalists tend to be Trolls, Dark Irons, Tauren and Blood Elves.

[Mace]

With all due respect, night elves only have a few named leaders.
Judging from the pre-event, most members of the Primalists tend to be Trolls, Dark Irons, Tauren and Blood Elves.

Well the point was we shouldn't see any of them. I remember in classic where night elves were never cultists, they weren't that foolish, not the Darnassian lot anyway, which fits their story of zenith civilization elves, that learn a harsh lesson, gain real wisdom, and after living so long are just not that easily duped.

Off course later expansions show night elves as cultists , though never many. I guess you could argue these are younger night elves, but they are rare. Without a good story, it's hard to understand why a night elf with their sort of background would get into nonsense cult stuff, especially one that is so against the very grain of their being and existence.

AT least the other cult appearances had explanations.. although the N'zoth h Nelf followers didn't really get one, but we had one for Fandral's flame druids and for demon hunter nelves.

[Tanaria]

Well the point was we shouldn't see any of them. I remember in classic where night elves were never cultists, they weren't that foolish, not the Darnassian lot anyway, which fits their story of zenith civilization elves, that learn a harsh lesson, gain real wisdom, and after living so long are just not that easily duped.

Off course later expansions show night elves as cultists , though never many. I guess you could argue these are younger night elves, but they are rare. Without a good story, it's hard to understand why a night elf with their sort of background would get into nonsense cult stuff, especially one that is so against the very grain of their being and existence.

AT least the other cult appearances had explanations.. although the N'zoth h Nelf followers didn't really get one, but we had one for Fandral's flame druids and for demon hunter nelves.

Night Elves have always had evil tendencies within their peoples, starting with the Highborne, the Druids etc.
Indeed, the first creatures who brought true evil to Azeroth (the Legion) willingly, were the Night Elves.

I've never seen night elves as anything different from other races, as both Draenei and Blood Elves shouldn't be cultist members, but we've seen them happen.
Night Elves aren't inherently "good" people, nor are they a "nice" group of people, in the overall outlook.

EDIT: And we did see very cult-like behavior from night elves in certain places, like the Druids of the Fang and what they were doing to Naralex as well as High Priestess Natalia Mar'alith of the Twilight's Hammer.
Cult-like behavior and activity has always been part of the Elves, Trolls, Humans and the other races.

[Feanoro]

Indeed, the first creatures who brought true evil to Azeroth (the Legion) willingly, were the Night Elves.

Those people are now called Blood Elves and Naga. They were exiled from Night Elf society.

[Tanaria]

Those people are now called Blood Elves and Naga. They were exiled from Night Elf society.

They're also called High Elves and Void Elves..
If we want to go down that route.

[Myradin]

Those people are now called Blood Elves and Naga. They were exiled from Night Elf society.

I doubt the primalists are still part of night elf society.

With the destruction of Teldrassil though, I can see why some night elves might be looking for something new. The NE have been punching bags throughout wow's history. Sure, they had 10,000 years of relative harmony, but the last like 20 years have been hell for them.

[Mace]

Night Elves have always had evil tendencies within their peoples, starting with the Highborne, the Druids etc.
Indeed, the first creatures who brought true evil to Azeroth (the Legion) willingly, were the Night Elves.

Off course, and there are still evil and silly ones and even the wise ones can become foolish - this is the tale of Azshara afterall. Pre-sundering NElves were not foolish, quite the opposite, they became arrogant which is a foolishness of itself, but not the usual one and wen t crazy..this is not counting corruptions either.

However, it's not that night elves can't be foolish or duped, the point is the story of the night elves we play indicates this should be next to impossible based on their experience or wisdom. without a good or compelling reason to show what how a not only very highly intelligent, but also wise and very experienced being would cast away such things, makes it again one of those roll eye moments.

The point is not that night elves can't be foolish or evil, just that it should be rare and very compelling - because their story and background paints an extraordinary journey that demonstrates they shouldn't fall for nonsense and have incredible resistance to manipulation. you have to come out against a ruler like Azshara when she went all bad and to resist the wiles of the legion. Not ot mention carry out a 10,000 year vigil. not to mention being defined as very highly intelligent , enhanced in your very creation by arcane intelligence boosting energies, then having the experience of a zenith civilization and near immortal lifespan - living through several world destructions - i mean the list goes on.. this should be hard.

I've never seen night elves as anything different from other races, as both Draenei and Blood Elves shouldn't be cultist members, but we've seen them happen.
Night Elves aren't inherently "good" people, nor are they a "nice" group of people, in the overall outlook.

that's short sighted - every race is different.. sure there are comonalities across board, but some are definitely more prone to somethings and less prone to others, you harp on about blood elves being good at magic, (typically forgetting that comes ENTIRELY from their night elven ancestory - burt that's another discussion] , yet skill and expertise are not the only things races can be different from others to varying degrees.

THe racial background, set up and story gives strong indications, and they need to be followed. Otherwise what's the point? It's not that they can't occasionally vary - but when it deviates from the norm, it should have plausible reason. actually good reason, and this shouldn't be common place either. e.g. you can't use them as foolish cultists or sore losers every expansion when you've described them as a "titanic" race and "highly intelligent", "near immortal", "wise" and given them that kind of history.

EDIT: And we did see very cult-like behavior from night elves in certain places, like the Druids of the Fang and what they were doing to Naralex as well as High Priestess Natalia Mar'alith of the Twilight's Hammer.
Cult-like behavior and activity has always been part of the Elves, Trolls, Humans and the other races.

druids of the fang were corrupted, it's iin the very story - they din't get duped by some clever false doctrine of dubious origins like old god followers and many other cultists.

[Tanaria]

Off course, and there are still evil and silly ones and even the wise ones can become foolish - this is the tale of Azshara afterall. Pre-sundering NElves were not foolish, quite the opposite, they became arrogant which is a foolishness of itself, but not the usual one and wen t crazy..this is not counting corruptions either.

However, it's not that night elves can't be foolish or duped, the point is the story of the night elves we play indicates this should be next to impossible based on their experience or wisdom. without a good or compelling reason to show what how a not only very highly intelligent, but also wise and very experienced being would cast away such things, makes it again one of those roll eye moments.

The point is not that night elves can't be foolish or evil, just that it should be rare and very compelling.

But I don't see why though.

Corruption and cult-like behavior can happen to anyone of any race. Look at the Highborne Warlock in Darkshore and his Cult of the Dark Strand (I think.)
And when it comes to the old gods, they don't attack through force - they attack through the mind. We saw Night Elf and Nightborne Priestesses in Nya'lotha, completely corrupted by N'Zoth.

Of all the races, Elves, Trolls, Humans and Dark Iron Dwarves have been the core bulk of those who have been corrupted and displayed cult-behavior.

I honestly don't find it all that odd that we see Night Elves and Blood Elves, part of the Primalists faction.

Again, in this current pre-patch most of the Elven Primalists have been Blood Elf Mages - the Night Elf "Shaman" ones are those involved with the Dream/Dragon Isles stuff.

- - - Updated - - -

druids of the fang were corrupted, it's iin the very story - they din't get duped by some clever false doctrine of dubious origins like old god followers and many other cultists.

They got corrupted by the Emerald Nightmare which is a manifestation of the Old Gods, so they did get corrupted and were blinded by the evil of the Nightmare.
It was only the Tauren Druid, Mayoh and the Horde adventurers who killed them, but even as recent as Exploring Azeroth - the Wailing Caverns have still not been fully cleansed.

Due to the nature, I'd say they were duped personally.

- - - Updated - - -

that's short sighted - every race is different.. sure there are comonalities across board, but some are definitely more prone to somethings and less prone to others, you harp on about blood elves being good at magic, (typically forgetting that comes ENTIRELY from their night elven ancestory - burt that's another discussion] , yet skill and expertise are not the only things races can be different from others to varying degrees.

THe racial background, set up and story gives strong indications, and they need to be followed. Otherwise what's the point? It's not that they can't occasionally vary - but when it deviates from the norm, it should have plausible reason. actually good reason, and this shouldn't be common place either. e.g. you can't use them as foolish cultists or sore losers every expansion when you've described them as a "titanic" race and "highly intelligent", "near immortal", "wise" and given them that kind of history.

It's not, when every race has displayed cult-like behavior and none of them are more above it than the other.
The whole "racial background" isn't part of the present - especially when it comes to Night Elves with the Fourth War. Who's to say that Night Elves were disgruntled by Tyrande's judgement on Sylvanas and they have now joined this hostile faction? Before she was risen, Sira had already lost her faith in Elune.

The same applies to Blood Elves now - why would any join cult-based organisations who are hostile? A number of reasons, perhaps some were Banshee Loyalists who disapproved of Lor'themar siding against her during the war.
The same question can come for them. They have the Sunwell which empowers Quel'Thalas and protects their sovereign nation. Why leave, but they do and they have.

And none of the Elves can be considered "wise." These are not LOTR Elves. The WoW Elves are the ones who have willing joined the Legion, when they wanted entry to Azeroth. All of them from:
The Highborne of Zin-Azshari
The Sunfury Blood Elves
The Nightborne Elite

Then the smaller organisations within:
The Sunblade/Dawnblade
The Blood Elf Nethersworn Cult
The Felborne
The Satyrs

[melzas]

Nothing special about Night Elves in primalists faction, we had evil/twisted/crazy Night Elves since classic and as early as Wailing Caverns. We've seen them in Twilight Hammer's gang, druids of the flames, etc. etc.

You are obviously biased towards elves, seeing your avatar and threads you create, but honestly, there is no special lore or background behind some night elves in primalists faction, they are just there without any second meaning, some night elves are evil, just like Tauren, Trolls, Dwaves and whatever. There is nothing special about this and if you expect some deep dive lore explanation then you are in for a dissapointment.

[Mace]

But I don't see why though.

Corruption and cult-like behavior can happen to anyone of any race. Look at the Highborne Warlock in Darkshore and his Cult of the Dark Strand (I think.)
And when it comes to the old gods, they don't attack through force - they attack through the mind. We saw Night Elf and Nightborne Priestesses in Nya'lotha, completely corrupted by N'Zoth.

Of all the races, Elves, Trolls, Humans and Dark Iron Dwarves have been the core bulk of those who have been corrupted and displayed cult-behavior.

I honestly don't find it all that odd that we see Night Elves and Blood Elves, part of the Primalists faction.

Again, in this current pre-patch most of the Elven Primalists have been Blood Elf Mages - the Night Elf "Shaman" ones are those involved with the Dream/Dragon Isles stuff.

okay

They got corrupted by the Emerald Nightmare which is a manifestation of the Old Gods, so they did get corrupted and were blinded by the evil of the Nightmare.
It was only the Tauren Druid, Mayoh and the Horde adventurers who killed them, but even as recent as Exploring Azeroth - the Wailing Caverns have still not been fully cleansed.

Due to the nature, I'd say they were duped personally.

Okay

It's not, when every race has displayed cult-like behavior and none of them are more above it than the other.
The whole "racial background" isn't part of the present - especially when it comes to Night Elves with the Fourth War. Who's to say that Night Elves were disgruntled by Tyrande's judgement on Sylvanas and they have now joined this hostile faction? Before she was risen, Sira had already lost her faith in Elune.

The same applies to Blood Elves now - why would any join cult-based organisations who are hostile? A number of reasons, perhaps some were Banshee Loyalists who disapproved of Lor'themar siding against her during the war.
The same question can come for them. They have the Sunwell which empowers Quel'Thalas and protects their sovereign nation. Why leave, but they do and they have.

And none of the Elves can be considered "wise." These are not LOTR Elves. The WoW Elves are the ones who have willing joined the Legion, when they wanted entry to Azeroth. All of them from:
The Highborne of Zin-Azshari
The Sunfury Blood Elves
The Nightborne Elite

Then the smaller organisations within:
The Sunblade/Dawnblade
The Blood Elf Nethersworn Cult
The Felborne
The Satyrs

okay

[Lochton]

I’d love to see how this happened.

The primalist faction (main antagonists) in DF has a lot of night elves. Who want the primal chaos of the elements reinstated and the titans work removed.

The least they could have done was give us night elf shaman - for the one race that is entirely based on order with druidsm, the arcane and the divine all being order focused and orientated.

The demon hunters wielding fel had a damn good story as to why and how that happens and how they become the best at it. Or would this be even worse than the Fandral NElves - they also at least had a feasible explanation as Fandral became old god corrupted even though it was a waste of a character, but hey

I wonder what this story would be

No, they are believers of it, just like there are Tauren, Human, Vulpera, Goblin, Orcs, and many more.

Cultists are of all kinds, not just the Old Gods.

[Mace]

Nothing special about Night Elves in primalists faction, we had evil/twisted/crazy Night Elves since classic and as early as Wailing Caverns. We've seen them in Twilight Hammer's gang, druids of the flames, etc. etc.

You are obviously biased towards elves, seeing your avatar and threads you create, but honestly, there is no special lore or background behind some night elves in primalists faction, they are just there without any second meaning, some night elves are evil, just like Tauren, Trolls, Dwaves and whatever. There is nothing special about this and if you expect some deep dive lore explanation then you are in for a dissapointment.

okay. I thought every race was special in diverse ways, and it was the combos that made them unique.

iu don't understand creating profiles for the races, only to ditch them at the first opportunity, then repeat in total contrast to background and what you earlier establisehd.

I get subverting lord of the rings, I get subverting your own material within itself.. but at the rate the did it and do it?


We just keep seeing the exceptions and the subversions.

[Tanaria]

okay. I thought every race was special in diverse ways, and it was the combos that made them unique.

iu don't understand creating profiles for the races, only to ditch them at the first opportunity, then repeat in total contrast to background and what you earlier establisehd.

I get subverting lord of the rings, I get subverting your own material within itself.. but at the rate the did it and do it?


We just keep seeing the exceptions and the subversions.

The whole "cult" thing died after TBC, as their was no actual lore backing reasons why people joined the evil organisations.

We had the Druids of the Fang, the Scarlet Crusade, the Sunfury, the Illidari, the Defias and so many others, but after TBC - we saw female night elf warlocks in the Forge of Souls. Absolutely no reason behind them.

[Mace]

The whole "cult" thing died after TBC, as their was no actual lore backing reasons why people joined the evil organisations.

We had the Druids of the Fang, the Scarlet Crusade, the Sunfury, the Illidari, the Defias and so many others, but after TBC - we saw female night elf warlocks in the Forge of Souls. Absolutely no reason behind them.

Druids of the fang weren’t cultists, they were corrupted. Same with Druids of the Nightmare although I think the ones of the flame were both. But then they weren’t the first Druids corrupted either. I think might elved now know any magic can corrupt or be corrupted if you let it, but intrinsically, nature, arcane and the light are not corrupting powers.

Were the Sunfury ever a cult? Far as , they were just an elite faction of blood elves. We’re they ever referred to in game specifically as a cult?

The Illidari are certainly not a cult.

A religion or following that worships the burning legion fanatically would be a cult

[Tanaria]

Druids of the fang weren’t cultists, they were corrupted. Same with Druids of the Nightmare although I think the ones of the flame were both. But then they weren’t the first Druids corrupted either. I think might elved now know any magic can corrupt or be corrupted if you let it, but intrinsically, nature, arcane and the light are not corrupting powers.

Were the Sunfury ever a cult? Far as , they were just an elite faction of blood elves. We’re they ever referred to in game specifically as a cult?

The Illidari are certainly not a cult.

A religion or following that worships the burning legion fanatically would be a cult

Druids of the Fang were corrupted; but in the end, they practiced very cult-like rituals in order to keep Naralex asleep.
As per one of the leaders: "You will never awaken the Dreamer!"

The Sunfury and Illidari were also very cult-like as the former was very Legion-associated. The latter, as far as the Scryers quest text, made them out to be a cult, by training Sin'dorei Demon Hunters and having 4 Illidari Demon Hunters change into Demons themselves.
Arguably, it's going off what we only knew in TBC. You will find Demon practices were not at all common within the Blood Elf section of the Black Temple, as all Blood Elves were either Mages, Paladins, Rogues or Priests.

[Mace]

Druids of the Fang were corrupted; but in the end, they practiced very cult-like rituals in order to keep Naralex asleep.
As per one of the leaders: "You will never awaken the Dreamer!"

The Sunfury and Illidari were also very cult-like as the former was very Legion-associated. The latter, as far as the Scryers quest text, made them out to be a cult, by training Sin'dorei Demon Hunters and having 4 Illidari Demon Hunters change into Demons themselves.
Arguably, it's going off what we only knew in TBC. You will find Demon practices were not at all common within the Blood Elf section of the Black Temple, as all Blood Elves were either Mages, Paladins, Rogues or Priests.

But they aren’t cults. None are worshipping or fanatically idealists over what they believe to the erasure of all else.

Illidari are seeking to destroy the burning g legion, not corrupt or destroy the world nor are they fanatical about converting anyone to their cause , persecuting or flaming them for not towing their line.

Druids of the gang are not cultists despite their cultist lines. Almost everyone into a cause of some sort or focused on something would have something cult like about them. Doesn’t actually make them cults.