Hmm name calling. And seemingly forgetting that you were the first one to say something about keys. Sorry to criticize with such few words and getting your panties bunched up. (Greater than 15s are done by a minority because of the reward, not the difficulty)
- - - Updated - - -
I mean yea they are, but it's not that big of a difference in scaling +15 is 271% and +20 is 399. 25 goes to 587 and 30s (hard content) is 862.
Last edited by Phob; 2022-11-26 at 12:01 PM.
No.
https://www.wowhead.com/news/impact-...tone-11-329269
15 Shadowlands: 172% Dragonflight: 198%
20 Shadowlands: 300% Dragonflight: 380%
25 Shadowlands: 487% Dragonflight: 673%
30 Shadowlands: 763% Dragonflight: 1145%
Last edited by lllll; 2022-11-26 at 01:44 PM.
A 50% increase isn't bad. And there are 5 levels in between 15 and 20 that gets you accustomed to the next.
- - - Updated - - -
We were talking about Shadowlands but I must have missed that. Still 15-20 is easy-mid tier looking at these numbers.
Also have you been doing any of the tests in beta? The dungeons are even alot easier ruby life pools at a 15 is done in less than 10 mins and the majority of the dungeons are linear.
Last edited by Phob; 2022-11-26 at 01:54 PM.
Done. Original Death Knight design. All 3 specs were tanks and DPS, still didn't "solve" the tank problem.
Subjective. I play a Discipline priest main and have my entire WoW career. No other healer plays the same, very fun and hectic playstyle. I know many others would contend with "healers are boring to play when.." sorts of statements.As for healers, there's only a healer shortage because healers are boring to play when there isn't a good amount of healing to do.
"solve group content, just remove the group aspect. ez."It could also be solved by making the game more about surviving on your own (even in PvE)
They tried this as well. Mistweavers had Chi-ji stance, Holy had Shockadin, restoration had Feral Affinity(?), restoration had access to CC like Hex and Wind Shear still when many heal specs have none.and having healers be mostly DPS with more healing utility than others.
If a supposed tank and healer problem still exists, it remains entirely in the heads of the players who think they are boring or too hard to play.
You said:
They will absolutely not be stopping at 20 because most of them will never get there, especially with the additional damage increase in DF.
Hardly.
Yes.
You're absolutely not doing ruby life pools in 10 minutes at a +15 with the average +15 player for quite a long time. They'll struggle to even time +15s the first few weeks until they get more gear and can smash it, that's if they can even get to +15 in that time.
Last edited by lllll; 2022-11-26 at 01:59 PM.
Do you remember the context of when that quote was done? Let me refresh you.
Meaning people doing them now. Meaning pre df launch. Meaning Shadowlands.
- - - Updated - - -
People are always doing it day 1 though.
Just stop. You will always see a 15 as "challenging" and I will always see them as low tier. 15s are just there to give you some brownie points for doing something in the game that requires a tad bit more brain power than a "heroic" raid.
Last edited by Phob; 2022-11-26 at 02:14 PM.
Yes, you were saying people who are stopping at 15s now for the max reward will stop at 20s in DF for the max reward.
A 20 is well beyond most of those peoples skill level, both now in SL and especially in DF.
I've brought people who are doing 15s into 20 keys and they've single-handedly managed to almost make us not time it with how bad they've played. It would in a lot of cases have been easier if they just sat AFK at the start.
Last edited by lllll; 2022-11-26 at 02:15 PM.
Last edited by Phob; 2022-11-26 at 02:20 PM.
Oh there is a problem, but the people who make these threads do not want to accept the reality that the problem is not one Blizzard can really solve without really going for broke on EULA/Code of Conduct enforcement.
I dusted off my Druid for tanking to get him through Uldamon because I knew that as Feral or Laser Poultry I wouldn't be performing anywhere near where I should because I literally only really played those specs in Legion for Mage Tower transmog. Or had a large group to hide in like LFR. I immediately braced for impact when the queue popped. I had Icy Veins' "Easy Mode" guide and on my second monitor and just followed it. There were a few rough patches where a mob or two went after the DPS but I snagged them back.
I think one of the reasons I had it easy was the fact I had the "Bro Bear" from from Legion (initially planned for 5, ended up with like 22). I also told them I hadn't tanked on that char since Legion seeing as it's my mining/herbing primary alt. No problems though. But unfortunately my run was the exception and not the norm.
Easy for people that play well above it, yes.
You're not going to have a team that's just capable of doing 20s that will be able to finish it with 1 person AFK.
15 keys are easy right now because people are outgearing them like mad and they've been nerfed several times. Early in the season they weren't as easy as they are now, I tried pugging 15s on the start of the season to fill my vault out and the rate of failure to time was insanely high.
You are vastly overestimating how good the playerbase is at the game.
Last edited by lllll; 2022-11-26 at 02:40 PM.
I don't have that issue, and the majority of people I play with don't either. It usually takes a few hours to get to 15s then a few more to get to 20s. After that, that's when the difficulty starts. And I wouldn't say I'm great at the game, I just don't see difficulty until after 20s and what you do/buttons you press when you press then actually matter.
I think you are underestimating the people who actually try to play the game.
Last edited by Phob; 2022-11-26 at 02:51 PM.
That doesn't mean the average +15 player is anywhere close to capable of that.
Like I said, you're vastly overestimating how good the playerbase is at the game.
In season 3 when I was still playing my shaman, I was often on 3rd or 4th place on DPS, as the healer in +15 pugs. Often a DPS was 5th. Sometimes I was 2nd and rarely 1st place.
People that are better than the average KSM player, yes.
You would never see the guys doing 15s and pulling 10k dps in ilvl 300 gear doing a +15 on day 1.
Last edited by lllll; 2022-11-26 at 03:09 PM.
I'm no mathematician but I don't think 3 specs is all specs. Plus that's not at all what I mean since you had to swap gear and presence and even build to tank in your chosen tree. What I'm talking about is making EVERY melee tank acceptably, in any (relevant) gear, with minimal changes.
Eh. What are you even talking about? Disc is the only healer that has anything resembling an actual DPS rotation so obviously they differ and have reasons to play even in low healing situations. What I'm saying is basically that all healers should be more like Disc, obviously you agree with that.
Yes, because nuance isn't a thing. It's either "completely reliant on the group" or "5 DPS".
They have never tried this, no. You must be stretching to even think "mostly DPS" means "chi-ji stance" or "feral affinity" lmao.
The problem is with the design. Blaming hundreds of thousands of players for not wanting to play something rather than blaming what it is they don't want to play makes you an idiot.
Wdym by actual DPS rotation? All healers have quite a few damage spells now. Main reason the rotations are so boring is they don't have any cooldowns
Exactly that. Make healer DPS gameplay much more similar to DPS gameplay and you'll see the healer shortage reduce significantly. I personally think healing is the most fun role when the content is challenging, but it's the most boring role without question when the content is easy. I've never been able to main a healer for more than a single patch because of that.