How is Dragonflight solving shortage of tanks and healers problem?

[Relapses]

Precisely. Your situation isn't remotely comparable. You were already well-established by the time this even became a significant issue, and you clearly didn't pay attention to how the landscape changed in the meantime.

Again, the problem isn't with people like you. It's with new tanks who are not already established and get dissuaded before even getting there. Your claims only show how dated your experience is.

Buddy, if you think the WoW community is somehow any more toxic now than it was in 2007 then you're out of your mind.

[Glorious Leader]

The inability of people to relate is others is always amazing to see.

its easy for you, that doesn't mean it easy for others or everyone.

The community or at least the people who post here are likely by and large on the spectrum and thusly the ability to empathize with others is very difficult.

[chiddie]

It's a temporary solution to a permanent problem. New tank specs will result in a temporary burst in tanks where people are interested in it because it's new; but much like the similar issue which will inevitably befall healing Evokers when you look at a longer timeline there's almost no impact at all. You'll still be waiting for tanks and healers. You will always be waiting for tanks and healers.

It is a fundamental design choice Blizzard has gone with since the jump.

This is simply how the game is.

It’s not even a temporary solution: people not interested in tanking/healing won’t try a new tanking/healing spec, regardless how good or fun it is. People who chill in open world and normal/heroic dungeons like me will never ever stick with a tank or healing spec because they are not efficient in ow.

Also not doing M+ makes the two roles redundant since there’s the automated queue for normal/heroic, I don’t care if it takes 30 minutes IF I can do other things in the meantime instead of applying and refreshing the M+ panel to the infinite and beyond.

Again, M+ are not meant to be pugged.

[Relapses]

Again, M+ are not meant to be pugged.

I couldn't disagree more. M+ is the most PuG'able thing they've ever added to the game.

[mickybrighteyes]

But yea if that's how the new dungeons are design like Uldaman cut me out from tanking I will just dps and there is one less tank. I was planning to tank in DF even got all my tank gear up and testing them right now.

>.> umm...*event* uldaman is almost a singular path with one dead end boss encounter. I wouldn't at all compare it to Freehold for "getting lost" Maybe if you're talking about *classic* uldaman and trying to full clear it with that maze of tunnels and 5 bosses mixed into it with a profession trainer.

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I couldn't disagree more. M+ is the most PuG'able thing they've ever added to the game.

I think it depends on how high that + is... but really the way players handle grouping for mythics is legit cancer. People will be going into DF looking for AotC Baine kills for basic pugs... and that was already a joke some one was trying on a server I was playing on

[BraveNewWorld]

Also, make tanking more about survivability and less about needing/doing dps and spot/situationally healing others.s.

And that's how you get people to NOT play tanks.

I want to do damage as a tank. Yeah, being a brick wall is fun, but beating dps in damage if you play good is also fun.

So far DF they are making all tanks fun, but they are pushing healers away with M+ requiring too much healing. There will 100% be a nerf to all dungeons after first week of M+, a revert of the +40% hp / npc damage, or a flat out buff to healing (which would be dumb considering they did the +40% thing to combat healers being too powerful)

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People who chill in open world and normal/heroic dungeons like me will never ever stick with a tank or healing spec because they are not efficient in ow.

Tanks are definitely not "not efficient" in open-world.

I always level as tank when I can, it's just faster since I can pull an entire area of mobs, not worry about my HP at all, and everything dies quite fast. Specially in DF now that tanks are doing quite competitive damage.

[chiddie]

And that's how you get people to NOT play tanks.

I want to do damage as a tank. Yeah, being a brick wall is fun, but beating dps in damage if you play good is also fun.

So far DF they are making all tanks fun, but they are pushing healers away with M+ requiring too much healing. There will 100% be a nerf to all dungeons after first week of M+, a revert of the +40% hp / npc damage, or a flat out buff to healing (which would be dumb considering they did the +40% thing to combat healers being too powerful)

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Tanks are definitely not "not efficient" in open-world.

I always level as tank when I can, it's just faster since I can pull an entire area of mobs, not worry about my HP at all, and everything dies quite fast. Specially in DF now that tanks are doing quite competitive damage.

Leveling up I certainly agree (also because you have the advantage of zero queues if you decide to do dungeons).

Bare ope world end-game, I don’t. Apart from being able to solo (some) elites, for everything else for me playing a dps is more efficient.

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I couldn't disagree more. M+ is the most PuG'able thing they've ever added to the game.

It is to an extent if you are a tank or healer and if you have hours a day to spend in queue.

Not exactly my play style.

[Relapses]

It is to an extent if you are a tank or healer and if you have hours a day to spend in queue.

Not exactly my play style.

Understandable, but I sometimes experience longer queue times on tanks/healers than I do as a DPS. To each their own.

[Jinpachi]

The community is toxic. That's why tanks don't want to PuG your M+ keys.

Nothing Blizzard is going to do will fix that.

100% this shit right here ^

[Coolface330]

The glowing point is what was said -

You say this is a global problem,

but if Final Fantasy 14 not only does NOT have a tank problem. They actually DO 1 tank, 1 heal, 2 dps???

This is a BLIZZARD problem.

So they gave loot bags to motivate tanks. Good. Then they listened to snowflakes and removed it. Bad.

Problem here is, Blizzard is listening to the people. The good and the bad. The people are retarded. Blizzard should listen to their own instincts - they're in the position of power, they designed their heep.

My take.

Or is it Blizzard's stubborness to keep the populations on servers divided, through this "Alliance and Horde", while still saying PvP will be impossible if they stop this. Final Fantasy 14...again....proves this a lie before it even starts.

[Wyrt]

The community treats tanks and healers horribly and pretty much always have. That's not something Blizzard can really fix short of just banning people. Just adding new tanks/healers has never fixed the problem because after people enjoy the new shiny class they get beaten back into playing DPS or only tank/heal for friends and guild members because how they get treated in PUGs.

[Nymrohd]

>.> umm...*event* uldaman is almost a singular path with one dead end boss encounter. I wouldn't at all compare it to Freehold for "getting lost" Maybe if you're talking about *classic* uldaman and trying to full clear it with that maze of tunnels and 5 bosses mixed into it with a profession trainer.

I'd say Uldaman is the simplest route out of the new dungeons. Halls of Infusion and Ruby Life Pool are fairly simple (As are all the old dungeons in the rotation)

[lllll]

It is to an extent if you are a tank or healer and if you have hours a day to spend in queue.

Not exactly my play style.

I mainly pug as a healer and there's been no excessive amount of queuing, I'm usually in a key in less than 5 minutes when there are keys up that I want to do, the hard part is finding keys that are at a level I want to do.

I've never spent hours in queue when I've pugged as a dps either though, not even as a moonkin. Yes, it takes a bit longer to pug as a dps than as tank or healer but not so long that you can count it in hours.

[huth]

A 50% increase isn't bad. And there are 5 levels in between 15 and 20 that gets you accustomed to the next.

Yes it is. A healer that can easily keep you topped in a +15 will struggle or just outright be unable to even keep you alive with 50% higher damage. Damage taken vs. healer capability to keep you up does not scale linearly.

For that matter, a hit that takes off 70% of your life and is still easily survivable in a +15 will just leave you dead in a +20.

And why are you talking about Shadowlands? Shadowlands balance is irrelevant at this point. What they were able to do there doesn't matter.

[Phob]

Yes it is. A healer that can easily keep you topped in a +15 will struggle or just outright be unable to even keep you alive with 50% higher damage. Damage taken vs. healer capability to keep you up does not scale linearly.

For that matter, a hit that takes off 70% of your life and is still easily survivable in a +15 will just leave you dead in a +20.

And why are you talking about Shadowlands? Shadowlands balance is irrelevant at this point. What they were able to do there doesn't matter.

In a 15 you shouldn't ever get hit for 70% of your life unless you are standing in obvious bad and don't know how to hit a defensive. Same for a 20.

[Rageonit]

Just stop. You will always see a 15 as "challenging" and I will always see them as low tier.

It doesn't matter what YOU see. Fact of the matter is, there are people making 15s a royal pain in the ass even late in a Season (I can attest to it, as I PUG a lot in a healer role). Like, people who won't use a single kick thorough a whole key. Since it's "only" 15s, I can often heal through mistakes - but those people will attempt to do 20s in DF. And it will be horrific, please pray for us healers. But yeah, since those people don't usually aspire to do any higher than 15s, they're content as long as they can brute force through the dungeon. And since it's possible, they don't learn. And since you can't do that in higher keys, more often than not I heal less in a 20 than I do in a 15. Weird, but not if you realize who does a 15 and who pushes a 25. Very different players.

[Healerme]

I mean, unless you're a priest at least you can spec kick yourself now

[lllll]

In a 15 you shouldn't ever get hit for 70% of your life unless you are standing in obvious bad and don't know how to hit a defensive. Same for a 20.

People in +15s aren't good.

I don't know how many times we have to tell you this.

I had all 3 dps die within a minute on the first boss in a mechagon workshop +15 when I was tanking, they all died to flame vent as ranged dps and then we couldn't get past kujo in 3 attempts because the healer was just getting himself killed constantly by not line of sighting, I ditched the group after the 3rd attempt.

[yukicross]

As a returning player after wotlk where I played mostly healer. I can say, tanking is not fun atm. People are so toxic in dungeon's because its some kind of pull all trash at super speed fest.

I liked tanking back in tbc heroics because I got to mark the trash that had to be cc'd, the first to nuke, and the one to interrupt. They were not slow runs, i had enough fun then.
This pull everything in one big chain and ignore all mechanics, wtf they have done to the game.

Now I am hesitant to even return to tanking, might switch to arms for pvp or something and let some dractyr do the tanking.

[Phob]

People in +15s aren't good.

I don't know how many times we have to tell you this.

I had all 3 dps die within a minute on the first boss in a mechagon workshop +15 when I was tanking, they all died to flame vent as ranged dps and then we couldn't get past kujo in 3 attempts because the healer was just getting himself killed constantly by not line of sighting, I ditched the group after the 3rd attempt.

1 negative impact stays on your mind moreso than 20 positive impacts. I tank/heal my keys I tell people what they do wrong and they fix it, then take them to the next key and no problems. I don't have these wipe 3 times give up groups at 15. It doesn't happen.