Anyone else completely overwhelmed by new talents?

[erifwodahs]

The pick one of three talent trees objectively were less cookie-cutter than these; much more options but less choice - it's actually impressive

That is simply untrue. Most basic content will be doable with any combination of talents - I have been running some crazy aoe/ST damage/extreme tankiness/healing builds for my prot pala and doing mid level keys (20s), same with mage, DK and warrior. There are cookie cutters, but there is plenty of fun to be hard to be playing with silly stuff if you don't push too hard. If you are doing hardest content - mythic raids, high m+ there wasn't going to be a choice regardless of what kind of talents there were - community will find out whats the best and that's what you will pick.

[vizzle]

Why? What value do you get from Multishot in a single-target raid encounter? Before, the ability was a wasted spot in your spellbook for such an encounter. Now, you can just not take Multishot when it's useless and grab something else.

Same with something like Counter Shot. It's extremely useful a lot of the time, but not useful if you're doing a raid encounter with no interrupts you need to get.

That's the value of the new talent trees--abilities that are generally useful but drop to 0% use in certain situations, you can drop for those situations. You can customize your abilities and gameplay for the situation you're focusing on at the moment.

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As for being "overwhelmed" by talents--if you feel that way, Blizzard did implement the ability to import talent loadouts. So you can grab a loadout from a source you trust and just import it and go. For people who want to customize things for themselves, they don't need to go the import route.

And if you don't want to go outside the game for talents, Blizzard (as mentioned by others) put in default loadouts to give you a quick core skillset to use.

From an outsider's perspective, this looks like gaslighting, lmao.

Blizzard took a core skill and turned it into a talent, meaning every time you want it you have to spec into it, adding extra hassle just to have the talent. But somehow they've convinced gamers like this person that it adds depth to the game?

Hello -- just because you have Multishot on your bars doesn't mean you HAVE to use it in every single encounter. Taking normal baseline skills out of the core set of skills and locking it behind a skill point doesn't add depth to the game; it just adds hassle.

[Forteofgray]

I'm always baffled by how easily some people get overwhelmed. I don't see anything in these talents that could confuse or overwhelm you. the grammar mistakes in some of the tooltips I can kind of understand. The main takeaway I've gotten from the new system is there are ways around skills I don't like for certain classes. I can set my talents up to avoid those skills and still do good damage if I play the rotation well. This new system is a huge improvement.

[Raetary]

Depends on the tree.

The Hpriest and frost mage trees i had no problems with.
Everything else that i either don't play or play less regularly though, for that i just copied the tree on wowhead.

[Healerme]

I can see how the new trees can be overwhelming for people, it's important to realize that these new trees aren't just replacing the old talents, they're replacing the old talents, legendaries, soulbinds, and conduits. The only true difference is delivery, before you could google each thing individually so it was easier to digest, now it's all just thrown at you.

I think the new trees are great, but anyone who claims they aren't overwhelming to new/less experienced players is a bit naive.

[Ihazpaws]

Others might have said it already but saying again: If you are overwhelmed and don't bother to learn then just copypaste the builds from others. That is not bad thing since after doing that you can slowly start trying out different talents that you personally think are more fun to play with than what those "best of the best" builds use.

I copied "best" Evoker devastation and persevation builds from net and started messing with different ideas, found out that there is more suitable builds for me. In Devastation build it's almost same as what "best" build is but more focus on having also on demand aoe and losing 2sec from single target burst dps. For Persevation I changed talents competely towards time related talents and avoid everything that boosts bloom since I don't like it. It works really well in dungeons but is more mana heavy which is not problem in dungeons since you gotta do dmg too and most of the essences go to the disencration (returns mana) because the build does not really use essences for anything else than Echo once a while.

[Raetary]

I'm always baffled by how easily some people get overwhelmed. I don't see anything in these talents that could confuse or overwhelm you.

You don't see how for some people it can be overwhelming to have to read through 50+ nodes, understand them and then apply them to their playstyle?

Unless you are already well versed in a class/spec, and already know which abilities take priority and which are dead then it's a huge amount of information that you have to sift through.

[VinceVega]

You don't see how for some people it can be overwhelming to have to read through 50+ nodes, understand them and then apply them to their playstyle?

Unless you are already well versed in a class/spec, and already know which abilities take priority and which are dead then it's a huge amount of information that you have to sift through.

Yes. Because nearly everything was allready in the game in some form and there is not really anything complicated in them anyway. You can try out whatever you like because you can respec whenever you want. Nothing is badly explained. It is not even a big talent tree comapred to toher games.

If people don't understand this then they did not understand their class in the first place. In that case you can use a cookie cutter from wowhead. Nothing wrong with that.

But again... this is not rocket science. It is fairly straightforward "If you take this talent your ability does this." or "take this talent and you get this ability".

If you are new to tge game or class you start at zero points. If you boost it is not the games problem. And again... this really is not a difficult system... like at all... it literally explaines itself...

[Raetary]

Because nearly everything was allready in the game in some form and there is not really anything complicated in them anyway.

It's not complicated for you, because you played this game for god knows how many years and know everything there is know about it-
It's not complicated for me either, for the same reason.

That doesn't change the fact that previous standard abilities are now active choices that you have to make, for which you have to put actual thought into.
That means, unless you already know the do's and don't of your given class/spec, it's a massive infodump you have to sift through before you can play your class.

[Cerus]

Don’t worry. By next expansion they will completely change it yet again. It wouldn’t be WoW if they didn’t completely revamp systems no one ask them to just so they can claim they did something new.

[VinceVega]

It's not complicated for you, because you played this game for god knows how many years and know everything there is know about it-
It's not complicated for me either, for the same reason.

That doesn't change the fact that previous standard abilities are now active choices that you have to make, for which you have to put actual thought into.
That means, unless you already know the do's and don't of your given class/spec, it's a massive infodump you have to sift through before you can play your class.

That is why you start from level one and not 60. And then you learn it. I had no idea how the talents worked in vanilla. And then i read it. And then it was rather obvious.
Because again: This is not some kind of big mathematical problem. If you want to be mathematical perfect there are prebuilds. No other choice. If you watn to play what is fun you have to read a little bit about a few talents that ARE NOT COMPLICATED....

Seriously... this is not path of exile or any singelplayer RPG talent tree...

New players are not baseline retarded. And returning players also not. If someone has serisou problems understanding what these few one sentence descriptions do or is overwhelmed by a combined probaly one page of text when they can test everything without any restrictions... good god... how do these people not forget to breath.

"I don't understand what this does." Click -> Try "Ah now i understand"

For some people Hello Kitty World would be to complicated and overwhelming... because they have a few choices.

What do people want out of this game if this to hard or they are to lazy to even try? A Shooter? Play them.
I don't want to know how these people react to other games like the item variety in games like Lol or Dota. Wall of texts in FF14 menues.

Pure laziness. All they want is prechewed "take this" or "here is a choice between ability a and b. They are exactly the same but on is blue"

[Baraden]

That is simply untrue. Most basic content will be doable with any combination of talents - I have been running some crazy aoe/ST damage/extreme tankiness/healing builds for my prot pala and doing mid level keys (20s), same with mage, DK and warrior. There are cookie cutters, but there is plenty of fun to be hard to be playing with silly stuff if you don't push too hard. If you are doing hardest content - mythic raids, high m+ there wasn't going to be a choice regardless of what kind of talents there were - community will find out whats the best and that's what you will pick.

Simply false.

You HAVE to take an interrupt
You HAVE to take your movement ability
You HAVE to take your CC/ group stun etc

If you don't you're simply not worth bringing to any content - and that fact Blizzard has enabled people to do this under the guise of more choice is just silly

The fact your spec has like 2-3 abilities baseline (inlcuding passives) clearly is not a good thing

[m4xc4v413r4]

lol, people stressing about something they are just going to copy from someone else or some website, just like they did before this talent system, and just like they did before that one...

[Lolites]

The trees can be overwhelming for a class you don't know.

this, on my main its no issue, on alts i play rarely its a bit confusing

[Ryzeth]

No because anyone who's played for longer than like a year can already see that the talent trees are taking the exact same passives / skills / covenant abilities that we already had before the talent trees. Things are just as cookie cutter as they've always been, except now they brought back the illusion of choice that classic talent trees gave.

You don't see how for some people it can be overwhelming to have to read through 50+ nodes, understand them and then apply them to their playstyle?

Unless you are already well versed in a class/spec, and already know which abilities take priority and which are dead then it's a huge amount of information that you have to sift through.

Or you can just look at what end nodes you want to play, then backtrack from there.

[erifwodahs]

Simply false.

You HAVE to take an interrupt
You HAVE to take your movement ability
You HAVE to take your CC/ group stun etc

If you don't you're simply not worth bringing to any content - and that fact Blizzard has enabled people to do this under the guise of more choice is just silly

The fact your spec has like 2-3 abilities baseline (inlcuding passives) clearly is not a good thing

Interrupts are early in the tree and it's not game changing - you can pick whichever capstones you want. You can take a fire mage interrupt CC and go for full blown aoe flamestrike-fire bomb build, you can go pyroblast build, you can go ignite dmg build and still take interrupt and shimmer and iceblock.

You smell to me like someone who does things "big boys" do and have no clue WHY they take it. You probably don't even do hard content and still went and copied whatever wowhead told you to take, that's why you know shit about talent trees lol.

"any content" - fucking cringe, you can do normal raid while playing with one hand clicking and on the other screen looking at whatever crap is going in netflix now, unless you are intentionally scuffing yourself, by picking all aoe options for ST fight - there are plenty of options which will allow you to clear content even if not doing optimal dmg. You can go thermal frost mage and you can go GS frost mage - one of them will be superior in output 100% but it doesn't prevent you from clearing the fight. You can literally go and do +25 key with like 3 different capstone abilities and significantly different trees on a paladin or warrior tanks. Some of them will be better but saying that you either pick what a guide tells you or you are not worth taking to the content - cringe af.

[Lolites]

You HAVE to take an interrupt
You HAVE to take your movement ability
You HAVE to take your CC/ group stun etc

no you dont have to, and in some situations you dont WANT to...
and in low-end content it usualy wont even matter...

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mid level keys (20s)

20s are not mid level keys... most people dont even do 15s, mid level keys are somewhere between 10-15...

[erifwodahs]

this, on my main its no issue, on alts i play rarely its a bit confusing

Agreed - I found it a bit harder on trees where there is no obvious superior synergy with other talents point but just good synergy overall so it makes it hard to pick. On my main classes it's fairly easy - I know what I aim for, on alts it was more of "shit, I want that and that and that!"

[T-34]

lol, people stressing about something they are just going to copy from someone else or some website, just like they did before this talent system, and just like they did before that one...

Yep, rational people don't refuse to use a wheel-barrow because "I didn't invent and built it myself".
Rational people use knowledge and solutions made by people far better than themselves.

This is why we live in houses and have internet and don't shit in the woods.

[Baraden]

Interrupts are early in the tree and it's not game changing - you can pick whichever capstones you want. You can take a fire mage interrupt CC and go for full blown aoe flamestrike-fire bomb build, you can go pyroblast build, you can go ignite dmg build and still take interrupt and shimmer and iceblock.

You smell to me like someone who does things "big boys" do and have no clue WHY they take it. You probably don't even do hard content and still went and copied whatever wowhead told you to take, that's why you know shit about talent trees lol.

"any content" - fucking cringe, you can do normal raid while playing with one hand clicking and on the other screen looking at whatever crap is going in netflix now, unless you are intentionally scuffing yourself, by picking all aoe options for ST fight - there are plenty of options which will allow you to clear content even if not doing optimal dmg. You can go thermal frost mage and you can go GS frost mage - one of them will be superior in output 100% but it doesn't prevent you from clearing the fight. You can literally go and do +25 key with like 3 different capstone abilities and significantly different trees on a paladin or warrior tanks. Some of them will be better but saying that you either pick what a guide tells you or you are not worth taking to the content - cringe af.

You're missing my point entirely - this is clearly a problem that didn't exist before - why is it a good thing to allow players to skip fundamental parts of their class? It really isn't a choice; having interrupts and utilities in a talent tree is not a choice like choosing X aoe ability over Y ST ability is.

As a mostly mage main who has got KSM and Curve every tier for as long as I remember without ever taking RoP - I understand not needing to be meta to do well; however sacrificing a few % of DPS is not the same as sacrificing an interrupt or defensive etc

Mark my words - this will be changed when people start struggling with even basic content. All content is designed around the idea a player has a set of utility - that's why all classes have access them when they didn't used to - so it really isn't a choice if you want to do well

If all you can do is sperg out and say what I'm saying is cringe, fair enough - but we both know I'm right and you're just coping

I never said anything about guides, I barely use them, that's entirely your projection. Kindly stop assuming