Preach: "A NEW Era for WoW" - Inside Blizzard HQ

[Relapses]

it wasnt a grind to get legendaries in shadowlands? I didnt play SL but i heard from people that did that it was. in particular farming torghast for it and that was why they hated torghast.

Not really. Torghast isn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be. They made it so you could send stuff from alts so I'd always just use my main to farm the mats I needed easily then send them to my alts. Some of the recipes were difficult to obtain but they also fixed that when they made all Torghast wings open all the time. I much prefer this kind of grinding to simply having to contend with my character being less powerful until some ridiculously long quest line has been completed.

[chaoticcrono]

Not really. Torghast isn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be. They made it so you could send stuff from alts so I'd always just use my main to farm the mats I needed easily then send them to my alts. Some of the recipes were difficult to obtain but they also fixed that when they made all Torghast wings open all the time. I much prefer this kind of grinding to simply having to contend with my character being less powerful until some ridiculously long quest line has been completed.

iirc it wasnt like that in the beginning and being able to send the materials to alts was added in later. like i said it was made more alt friendly over time but wasnt like that at the start.

wod was the only one out of the last 4 that was alt friendly from the get go.

[Relapses]

Also, what the fuck happened to Lore? Dude's turned into the biggest fuckin' chungus. Jesus. Talk about giving up. This is what happens when you have a soul and start working for Blizz, I guess. It just fucking vacates your body and then you turn into a fucking golem made out of high fructose syrup.

Josh left Blizzard in March. I don't think he's particularly heavier than he was when he was a CM... most of those VODs have the camera pointed in a more flattering direction, though.

- - - Updated - - -

iirc it wasnt like that in the beginning and being able to send the materials to alts was added in later. like i said it was made more alt friendly over time but wasnt like that at the start.

wod was the only one out of the last 4 that was alt friendly from the get go.

That's true -- I guess we may be arguing from two different conflicting perspectives. Blizzard does have a tendency to make expansions more alt-friendly over time.

[loras]

Edit: I seem to have accidentally conflated two posts, apologies. Not gonna bother untangling though.

Jesus man, I couldn't disagree with you more. I actually quit in Legion because I wanted to mainswap in Nighthold and couldn't due to the way that Legiondaires and AP worked. I'd already burnt myself out trying to catch up the toon I was trying to raid on because I came into the expansion 3 months late and even with the catch-up mechanisms it was quite a grind... I actually hated playing the game because of the way it was designed. To this day it represents the only time I stopped playing this game because of the way it was designed. Maybe it was better towards the end of Legion or if you were the type of player that didn't Mythic raid so didn't care as much about the AP grind and Legiondaries... but man. By contrast, here's a toon that I boosted two weeks ago and I'm already +3'ing 20s on it.

The legendary’s bad boyluck protection was absolutely horrid not only did it not protect you from getting a bad legendary for your spec it also meant you had to endless run mythic+ and clear raids on every difficulty to actually make it high enough to matter, you also had to do this for every spec and there was a soft cap of 4 legendary’s for the longest time which means if you didn’t get the one you wanted you were better off deleting your character and starting over which people did.

The class campaigns still to this day have time gates with no catch up that lock you for multiple days through the mission board. So even if you caught up on the weekly quest you were still put behind every one else and your other alts if you weren’t doing it all in Synced.

Ap’s “soft cap” was Ridiculous and lead to people farming maw of souls none stop due to there being no hard limit and it being so sort. Relics were also your main Ilvl progress for your weapon as well as giving extra ranks on the tree they weren’t at all minor.

Only if you did exclusively PvP was legion not an alt nightmare thanks to as you said the temples and disabling of most things, any kind of Pve at all had not only the worse alt experience the game ever had but even the worse off spec experience.

...You literally could get legiondaries fron all activities.
I got most of mind from random dungeon drops whatever the "callings" were called back then.
There was literally no point to farming any particular content since all content could and eventually would reward them.

Honestly i feel that that has been what has bugged forumgoers the most: Not understanding / not wanting to understand that if all content can and eventually will drop something, that there is no point to excessively grinding any content over the others. I suppose you could try to do it all out of compulsion, but that's just active self destruction.

And sure, some were better, some were worse, but there was little to it otherwise barring a few classes that really got OP ones.


Going by that "after just three weeks" part shows how much more invested / different our approaches are.
I tend to play two months in a row tops (so "just three weeks" tends to represent three quarters of my gametime), by the end of the first i'll be roughly fully geared doing pvp, mythics or m+ at highest level - if that is what i'm going for. Last month i spent mostly collecting, levelling, occassionally mucking about in pvp or raids and avoiding m+ like the plague (i only ever bothered with it last season because it had a neat mount).

But the upside is that is always the same, so my comparisons are always the same.

As an aside: I played Legion from launch until mythic Nighthold's launch i think, clearing gul'dan hc and then logging off until well into broken shore/ToS stuff, i did not like the latter parts more than the former.


Honestly what i'm getting most of all is that Legion might have put you face to face with yourself, i mean it did technically offer the opportunity to burn yourself out on it if you really tried. But the point was that it was excellent for all those who lacked such inclinations.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Edit: I seem to have accidentally conflated two posts, apologies. Not gonna bother untangling though.



...You literally could get legiondaries fron all activities.
I got most of mind from random dungeon drops whatever the "callings" were called back then.
There was literally no point to farming any particular content since all content could and eventually would reward them.

Honestly i feel that that has been what has bugged forumgoers the most: Not understanding / not wanting to understand that if all content can and eventually will drop something, that there is no point to excessively grinding any content over the others. I suppose you could try to do it all out of compulsion, but that's just active self destruction.

And sure, some were better, some were worse, but there was little to it otherwise barring a few classes that really got OP ones.


Going by that "after just three weeks" part shows how much more invested / different our approaches are.
I tend to play two months in a row tops (so "just three weeks" tends to represent three quarters of my gametime), by the end of the first i'll be roughly fully geared doing pvp, mythics or m+ at highest level - if that is what i'm going for. Last month i spent mostly collecting, levelling, occassionally mucking about in pvp or raids and avoiding m+ like the plague (i only ever bothered with it last season because it had a neat mount).

But the upside is that is always the same, so my comparisons are always the same.

As an aside: I played Legion from launch until mythic Nighthold's launch i think, clearing gul'dan hc and then logging off until well into broken shore/ToS stuff, i did not like the latter parts more than the former.


Honestly what i'm getting most of all is that Legion might have put you face to face with yourself, i mean it did technically offer the opportunity to burn yourself out on it if you really tried. But the point was that it was excellent for all those who lacked such inclinations.

Yes you could get legendary’s from any thing and that was the problem because any thing could drop them if you didn’t get super lucky and get them from your planned content you had to farm some repeatable content to boost your protection and finally get one.

It didn’t only give you the opportunity to burn yourself out it actively pushed you to do it both with out how raids were tuned for Maxxed artifacts and good legendary’s and with how the community treats these things and have since fear score in wrath.

[Relapses]

Honestly what i'm getting most of all is that Legion might have put you face to face with yourself, i mean it did technically offer the opportunity to burn yourself out on it if you really tried. But the point was that it was excellent for all those who lacked such inclinations.

I was trying to Mythic raid so some of the burn-out was self-inflicted... I just ended up getting some fairly mediocre Legendaries on the toon I chose to roll and then, because of the mediocre Legendaries, started to feel like I was performing suboptimally in raid. As a guy who's always min-max'd the fun out of this game, that irked me on a primordial level... to the point where by the time I felt like I'd had enough and wanted to reroll something else, I realized that the whole grind I'd submitted myself to just to get to that point would have to be done again on a different character. It's... not a good feeling.

[Rexosaurus]

To be fair: None of that says anything about the quality of the works they produce.

Think of it like the Qatari football extravaganza: When push comes to shove no one gives a shit that a few people died or suffered.

The only thing that truly matters is the outcome.

If you spend a million lives to produce a turd people will be rightfully cross with you, as understatement allows me to say, but do the same thing to build, say, something like the Roman empire and people will praise you for millennia.

Gross. I absolutely care. I would trade all of my good memories with WoW if it meant that those people didn't have to go through those experiences. It's not hard to stop for a sec and think about how that could have been my sister, or my girlfriend, or any of my friends, and that I wouldn't ever want that to happen to someone that I care about.

And honestly, in hindsight I very much doubt the quality of the original team. They had a great idea, which was to copy EQ and make it more accessible and to use a more popular franchise. They did a good job at achieving their goal. Everything after that, eh.

They regularly made controversial decisions and royally fucked things up. The inexplicable removal of the original paladin combat system in favor of seals between beta and launch. Hunters basically had one viable spec until later in vanilla. With the exception of like one or two fights, hybrids were limited to playing as healers if they wanted to raid (and often also in PvP) until BC. Just generally speaking, class balance and overall design philosophy has been a see-saw since early on. Vanilla didn't even really have a story, and then when they tried to tell it in BC and WotLK, it was hilariously bad. They shoe-horned the undead into the Horde because they wanted to be evil zombies and didn't even know a lot of WC3's story. They neglected PvP as a "true endgame". They divided their PvP playerbase and the people roaming the actual world by making instanced-BGs, and then again with Arenas and tethered the best PvP gear specifically to that kind of PvP for some odd reason. They were never particularly communicative to the playerbase and they only became more detached as we moved into BC and Wrath. They also talked up any number of features that never came to fruition.

Not to say that everything they did was bad. But as a whole, they weren't some game design dream team. Certainly not enough to "make up" for the fact that a number of them were terrible human beings and that they collectively created a terrible work environment.

[loras]

Gross. I absolutely care. I would trade all of my good memories with WoW if it meant that those people didn't have to go through those experiences. It's not hard to stop for a sec and think about how that could have been my sister, or my girlfriend, or any of my friends, and that I wouldn't ever want that to happen to someone that I care about.

And honestly, in hindsight I very much doubt the quality of the original team. They had a great idea, which was to copy EQ and make it more accessible and to use a more popular franchise. They did a good job at achieving their goal. Everything after that, eh.

They regularly made controversial decisions and royally fucked things up. The inexplicable removal of the original paladin combat system in favor of seals between beta and launch. Hunters basically had one viable spec until later in vanilla. With the exception of like one or two fights, hybrids were limited to playing as healers if they wanted to raid (and often also in PvP) until BC. Just generally speaking, class balance and overall design philosophy has been a see-saw since early on. Vanilla didn't even really have a story, and then when they tried to tell it in BC and WotLK, it was hilariously bad. They shoe-horned the undead into the Horde because they wanted to be evil zombies and didn't even know a lot of WC3's story. They neglected PvP as a "true endgame". They divided their PvP playerbase and the people roaming the actual world by making instanced-BGs, and then again with Arenas and tethered the best PvP gear specifically to that kind of PvP for some odd reason. They were never particularly communicative to the playerbase and they only became more detached as we moved into BC and Wrath. They also talked up any number of features that never came to fruition.

Not to say that everything they did was bad. But as a whole, they weren't some game design dream team. Certainly not enough to "make up" for the fact that a number of them were terrible human beings and that they collectively created a terrible work environment.

Grand, i suppose i could look up how many like you there are, but i think the world cup's scale makes it sufficiently clear that you are, in effect, almost alone in caring overly much about the production process.
Personally i don't even like all that football stuff either, but if you want to demonstrate large scale public movements then that is the The superlative step.

And i suppose that's the gist of it really, people not being able to get a proper perspective on the importance of their own idealistic or religious convictions.

Best joke i heard in that regard was about the "One love" multicolored symbol laden armbands some of the nations here had comitted to before the hosts and Fifa said no, crudely translated from dutch:
"Germans, armbands and a complete lack of awareness regarding their own zealotry.
When has that ever gone wrong? ".

And that's the thing: Everything costs blood, every choice for (tolerance of) one thing is a choice of (intolerance of) another thing.
Sometimes people are just more honest about it and then "faithful" people get upset (and mind you that these faithful are not limited to just the "woke" or just the islamic beliefs of the Qatari; any ideology or religion can, but does not need to, fit).

[Arlette]

SomalianWarlord is right in a way, though.

Streamerbabs do not give any fucks about FF14 and most of the FF14 community does not care about streamers and streaming other than the occasional MSQ watch-along or Ultimate race.

Which, frankly, is a good thing if you ask me.

Agreed. This obsession of streaming one and only one thing even if you've done most (or all) of the content of the current cycle actively breads toxicity. Whether its people becoming super negative about the game or super positive.

Breaks your brain if you spend 8 hours a day watching/streaming a single thing and nothing else. Whether it's FF14 or WoW.

I hope they actually fulfill on their promise of supposedly not wanting to force people to log in daily and weekly because that's such a healthier way to play any game, especially MMOs. Its part of why I have dipped my toes into doing higher end PvE FF14 stuff. I didn't need sprint to the ending and start grinding the second the expansion launched or I'd be weeks behind.

[The Stormbringer]

by their own admission wod was the most alt friendly expac ever made... and they dont intend to do that ever again lol

I kinda miss it. I wanna say I had three or four Tier 3 Garrisons, all equipped with the maxxed out Inn. The amount of gold I made... it paid for my sub for a year and a half! Making WoW free certainly made me enjoy it quite a bit more.

[Rexosaurus]

Grand, i suppose i could look up how many like you there are, but i think the world cup's scale makes it sufficiently clear that you are, in effect, almost alone in caring overly much about the production process.
Personally i don't even like all that football stuff either, but if you want to demonstrate large scale public movements then that is the The superlative step.

And i suppose that's the gist of it really, people not being able to get a proper perspective on the importance of their own idealistic or religious convictions.

Best joke i heard in that regard was about the "One love" multicolored symbol laden armbands some of the nations here had comitted to before the hosts and Fifa said no, crudely translated from dutch:
"Germans, armbands and a complete lack of awareness regarding their own zealotry.
When has that ever gone wrong? ".

And that's the thing: Everything costs blood, every choice for (tolerance of) one thing is a choice of (intolerance of) another thing.
Sometimes people are just more honest about it and then "faithful" people get upset (and mind you that these faithful are not limited to just the "woke" or just the islamic beliefs of the Qatari; any ideology or religion can, but does not need to, fit).

Dude, the fact that you're talking about how 'everything costs blood', comparing WoW to Rome, and going on at length about the world cup tells me exactly which one of us is lacking perspective.

Worker's rights and safety from flagrant sexual harassment and abuse in a game company should not have been some sort of "necessary sacrifice" to obtain a finished product in 2004 and beyond. This may astonish you, but most competent people are able to do their jobs with out molesting their coworkers or driving them to commit suicide.

I'm pretty doubtful that any of that is gonna get through to you, so I'll just leave off by saying that WoW would be no better off if the "old team" were still here because they weren't all that good to begin with and they are directly responsible for steering WoW towards where it has been the past few years. I'm glad that many of them are gone and that some of them were shamed out of the company.

[chaoticcrono]

I kinda miss it. I wanna say I had three or four Tier 3 Garrisons, all equipped with the maxxed out Inn. The amount of gold I made... it paid for my sub for a year and a half! Making WoW free certainly made me enjoy it quite a bit more.

yep, same. wod was one of my fav expacs gameplay wise. (there were things i didnt like but there were a bunch of things i did)

i could make decent progress in main expac while also being able to make progress on older content that was missed.

I'm still salty with so much stuff in the game being removed or neutered. kinda sux when you wanna go back and see stuff and find out its gone =\

[Gempalm]

"Everyone's got a price" - Ted DiBiase, the Million Dollar man.

[The Stormbringer]

yep, same. wod was one of my fav expacs gameplay wise. (there were things i didnt like but there were a bunch of things i did)

i could make decent progress in main expac while also being able to make progress on older content that was missed.

I'm still salty with so much stuff in the game being removed or neutered. kinda sux when you wanna go back and see stuff and find out its gone =\

Yeah! I got to do a decent bit of raiding in WoD which was pretty good. Only Normal mode stuff, and primarily PUGs, but it was still fun. I really enjoyed the Hunter gameplay back then... Jumping around like an idiot and never standing still was so much fun.

[Weilyn]

He is marketing himself. Bringing hype to a game he no longer plays because his viewership and income has dropped dramatically.

[voidox]

That is Preach in a nutshell. Performative and disingenuous.

yup, pretty much what the whole "I"m done with Blizzard/WoW" was by Preach. We all knew he'd be back for the next expansion.

And this goes for many of the content creators who left videos "quitting" wow and being "done" with Blizzard only for them to run right back to WoW with the new expansion

[Arlette]

yup, pretty much what the whole "I"m done with Blizzard/WoW" was by Preach. We all knew he'd be back for the next expansion.

And this goes for many of the content creators who left videos "quitting" wow and being "done" with Blizzard only for them to run right back to WoW with the new expansion

He said neither of these things but don't let the witch hunt stop ya.

[voidox]

He said neither of these things but don't let the witch hunt stop ya.

I never said he said any of those things as I was talking about other content creators in the part you quoted me on.

All I said about Preach was his whole show of being "done with wow" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZ6w--GhpaM

thumbnail alone - "we're quitting wow"

[Relapses]

I never said he said any of those things as I was talking about other content creators in the part you quoted me on.

All I said about Preach was his whole show of being "done with wow" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZ6w--GhpaM

thumbnail alone - "we're quitting wow"

Take it from me, my guy. It's not worth engaging that guy on this point.

[voidox]

Take it from me, my guy. It's not worth engaging that guy on this point.

ya, seems so. I'll take your advice on him, thanks o7