How is Dragonflight solving shortage of tanks and healers problem?

[Thirtyrock]

Ive also been doing Mythic and Heroic and just general end game raiding since Vanilla. There is more to be aware of and do as DPS. Not as many if you mess up the raid wipes things as DPS vs tank but a lot more mess this up you die as dps then as a tank. A lot more mechanics to do and be affected by as dps vs a tank. I tanked all of SL and the things to be responsible for as a tank were a lot less than the dps had to do.

Yeah, I mean, that's my point. maybe it's easier to die as a DPS, but it's easier to wipe the group as a tank, at least in most instances.

[Vampyrr]

Yeah, I mean, that's my point. maybe it's easier to die as a DPS, but it's easier to wipe the group as a tank, at least in most instances.

Yes but theres significantly less to do and be responsible for as a tank vs as a dps. What you do is more critical but it is easier to do and there is less of it to do.

[Grax]

Except, y'know, it hasn't. There are still vastly more DPS specs than tanks and healers. This is by design. I take issue with suggestions which rely on either allowing all classes and specs to tank or heal or suggestions on making the game single player focused so the tank and healing role is completely unnecessary. I'm fine with incentivizing the current paradigm but there's only so far Blizzard can take it. Moving it in either of the aforementioned areas makes WoW less WoW and more a completely different game altogether. My suggestion -- as it always is whenever these circular, boring argument comes up -- is to just play whatever game it is that you wish WoW was instead of campaigning for WoW to become a carbon copy of something it isn't nor was ever intended to be.

WoW was intended to be the approachable MMO. There's an argument to be made that WoW has strayed from that intention. The game has had fundamental changes to the way it plays, no more or less as fundamental to gameplay as the tank/healer/dps triumvirate. I don't see why the tank/healer/dps paradigm couldn't be de-emphasized if not outright replaced at some point in the future.

[Jaransan]

For what it’s worth, they’ve made tank dps much more viable for quick solo leveling and pvp purposes. On my Vengeance Demon Hunter, being able to stack 8 levels of Frailty then Fiery Brand a target for half its total health before firing off The Hunt has been fun as hell.

[sponge5307]

>.> umm...*event* uldaman is almost a singular path with one dead end boss encounter. I wouldn't at all compare it to Freehold for "getting lost" Maybe if you're talking about *classic* uldaman and trying to full clear it with that maze of tunnels and 5 bosses mixed into it with a profession trainer.

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I think it depends on how high that + is... but really the way players handle grouping for mythics is legit cancer. People will be going into DF looking for AotC Baine kills for basic pugs... and that was already a joke some one was trying on a server I was playing on

I miss the first boss since it was my first as I am grouping the trash. DPS call me out and left the group lol. I totally mention it was my first time there too. I know how the community works so it was meh for me. But as a new player I could totally feel bad about it. Did the new dungeon in DF (ruby sancation I think). The tank also missed the 2nd he went too far the pathway. Good old dps call him a noob for it and he should not tank if he doesn't know the path (I think the 2nd boss spwan after you kill a certain number of mobs or something?). Lol I TOLD THE DPS if he likes he is welcome to tank since he also have a tank spec otherwise stfu and maybe try to be nicer. He stayed quiet for the rest of the run. Not to mention he was the lowest overall damage being a DH.

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People in +15s aren't good.

I don't know how many times we have to tell you this.

I had all 3 dps die within a minute on the first boss in a mechagon workshop +15 when I was tanking, they all died to flame vent as ranged dps and then we couldn't get past kujo in 3 attempts because the healer was just getting himself killed constantly by not line of sighting, I ditched the group after the 3rd attempt.

Add to that I blame blizzard. The lower m+ you could go in not doing mechanics and still time a +10 easily as long as everyone nuke the boss and the healers kept everyone alive. Then comes +15 where you have to do mechanics or died. Heck even in gambit I had to ask people if they know how to do the 1st boss and over 50% of people have no idea. Or in streets when you do the package trade people just stand there..... Make it people have to do mechanics or die even in lower m+ like if you don't interupt or move to the correct spot every takes 75% of their off in one hit and reduce healing for 10sec. So dps can't just blame others they have to do the work.

Remember back in BC where you have to kill skull, then X, CC square, sheep circle and interupt triangle? And if anyone breaks CC the group wipes? Yea that was fun and people actually work with each other and plan out what to do.

Got my guardian druid to lvl 65 got really bored and decided to level my hunter. My god I forgot how fun it was to play a dps (been tanking last 2 months?). Honestly it was very boring. Gather mob, use def CD, stay alive, kite mobs in certain afflix, LoS some pulls, oh I did 2k more dps oh well.... now is like I feel very exicted playing a dps it felt great like always trying to do more dps always trying to improve. I am also exicted when I level I want to see how much more dps I can dump if I put points into this talent or that talent. With tanking I don't get none of that. I feel like I am there to be a sponge to take damage

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Most people who blame it on the route r funny, they just can't handle themselves failing a route 2-4 times before learning it

Oh we, as tanks are fine, is the dps mostly that aren't fine with it. They expect tanks to know the route and every mechanic within the first week of the new release otherwise we are not tank worthy. But they themselves just follow with tank does not learning anything.

[Speedlance]

Its a player generated problem, not blizzard.

[Nymrohd]

For what it’s worth, they’ve made tank dps much more viable for quick solo leveling and pvp purposes. On my Vengeance Demon Hunter, being able to stack 8 levels of Frailty then Fiery Brand a target for half its total health before firing off The Hunt has been fun as hell.

Tank dps has been very viable for solo leveling since late Cata.

[Daemoroth]

Its a player generated problem, not blizzard.

That's just a cop-out excuse, doesn't mean that there isn't a solution Blizzard can create. Chat abuse is a player-generated problem with a Blizzard-created solution. Loot distribution is a player-generated problem with a Blizzard-created solution.

FFXIV solved the problem by introducing the ability to run their dungeons solo as any role. Which means I tend to tank and heal PUGs in FFXIV because I can do "practice runs" solo first to get to grips with the dungeon before queuing for the better rewards/faster runs with other players.

Imagine if you actually expected just a "teeny bit" more from Blizzard and asked them to do the same thing that someone else has proven is possible. I'm pretty damn confident that many DPS mains (Myself especially) would be more likely to try healer/tank if they could get to grips with the dungeon and role solo first without any PUG drama or just plain "hate wasting others' time because I don't know what I'm doing" annoyances.

[Thirtyrock]

Oh we, as tanks are fine, is the dps mostly that aren't fine with it. They expect tanks to know the route and every mechanic within the first week of the new release otherwise we are not tank worthy. But they themselves just follow with tank does not learning anything.

THISSSS I love tanking M+ with a group that will give me a bit of grace. I HATE tanking M+ with the average pugger.

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That's just a cop-out excuse, doesn't mean that there isn't a solution Blizzard can create. Chat abuse is a player-generated problem with a Blizzard-created solution. Loot distribution is a player-generated problem with a Blizzard-created solution.

FFXIV solved the problem by introducing the ability to run their dungeons solo as any role. Which means I tend to tank and heal PUGs in FFXIV because I can do "practice runs" solo first to get to grips with the dungeon before queuing for the better rewards/faster runs with other players.

Imagine if you actually expected just a "teeny bit" more from Blizzard and asked them to do the same thing that someone else has proven is possible. I'm pretty damn confident that many DPS mains (Myself especially) would be more likely to try healer/tank if they could get to grips with the dungeon and role solo first without any PUG drama or just plain "hate wasting others' time because I don't know what I'm doing" annoyances.

This is a great idea. Like, really a great idea. I genuinely wish they would do this BUT with lower rewards than real group content.

Also, people could just NOT be assholes when in dungeons? That would let us TRY the content with each other and come to grips with it while in a group...alas...

[Biomega]

Also, people could just NOT be assholes when in dungeons? That would let us TRY the content with each other and come to grips with it while in a group...alas...

I mean, it's a fine sentiment, but the last time someone suggested "how about we try being nice to each other for a change?" they ended up nailed to a cross. You're not wrong in that it would solve things, but that's a bit like saying the solution to world hunger is feeding people - 100% true, but also kind of a useless statement in terms of an actual solution.

It's not like I have one, either, though. This is a very complicated issue deeply entrenched in numerous fundamental aspects of the game. Tackling it with one straightforward plan is probably impossible, but the more components you add, the more unrealistic it becomes in terms of implementation. A lot of the suggestions the community has put forward are deeply flawed; either because they miss the point completely (like e.g. they might think that people don't like tanking because they're not doing enough damage as a tank) or because their "solution" would have massive negative ramifications (like e.g. removing mythic completely and just making the game an easy-mode snooze fest) or because it would be impossibly impractical to actually do (like e.g. changing the entire trinity system and redesigning WoW's combat from the ground up).

If there was some easy, simple solution to the tanking problem (and also, to a lesser degree, the healing problem; though that's nowhere near as big an issue) then we'd have it by now. That doesn't mean there's NO solution, just that it's not going to be easy OR simple.

[Thirtyrock]

I mean, it's a fine sentiment, but the last time someone suggested "how about we try being nice to each other for a change?" they ended up nailed to a cross. You're not wrong in that it would solve things, but that's a bit like saying the solution to world hunger is feeding people - 100% true, but also kind of a useless statement in terms of an actual solution.

It's not like I have one, either, though. This is a very complicated issue deeply entrenched in numerous fundamental aspects of the game. Tackling it with one straightforward plan is probably impossible, but the more components you add, the more unrealistic it becomes in terms of implementation. A lot of the suggestions the community has put forward are deeply flawed; either because they miss the point completely (like e.g. they might think that people don't like tanking because they're not doing enough damage as a tank) or because their "solution" would have massive negative ramifications (like e.g. removing mythic completely and just making the game an easy-mode snooze fest) or because it would be impossibly impractical to actually do (like e.g. changing the entire trinity system and redesigning WoW's combat from the ground up).

If there was some easy, simple solution to the tanking problem (and also, to a lesser degree, the healing problem; though that's nowhere near as big an issue) then we'd have it by now. That doesn't mean there's NO solution, just that it's not going to be easy OR simple.

I feel you. But just because humans are human doesn't mean we don't keep pushing for better.

I agree on how complicated a problem it is.

I think the solution I quoted is the best I've seen so far and I've been hearing this question since I started tanking back in Wrath.

[Gorsameth]

That's just a cop-out excuse, doesn't mean that there isn't a solution Blizzard can create. Chat abuse is a player-generated problem with a Blizzard-created solution. Loot distribution is a player-generated problem with a Blizzard-created solution.

FFXIV solved the problem by introducing the ability to run their dungeons solo as any role. Which means I tend to tank and heal PUGs in FFXIV because I can do "practice runs" solo first to get to grips with the dungeon before queuing for the better rewards/faster runs with other players.

Imagine if you actually expected just a "teeny bit" more from Blizzard and asked them to do the same thing that someone else has proven is possible. I'm pretty damn confident that many DPS mains (Myself especially) would be more likely to try healer/tank if they could get to grips with the dungeon and role solo first without any PUG drama or just plain "hate wasting others' time because I don't know what I'm doing" annoyances.

You want Blizzard to allow you to run M+ Solo?

The problem here isn't normal and Heroic dungeons, there is no timer there pressuring players.

[sponge5307]

You want Blizzard to allow you to run M+ Solo?

The problem here isn't normal and Heroic dungeons, there is no timer there pressuring players.

LOL you kidding, right? The community is also pretty toxic in normal and heroic dungeons. Did the dungeon last night where you have to use your dragon-riding mount. Told the group is my 1st time here and that it would be great if they can be a bit more patient. I hate dragon riding and really hate using it.
DPS1: fxxx this crap! This stinks. Follow by a bunch of nasty words. I already wanted to just leave, but I figure I still stick by it.

Kill the first boss, and everyone starts riding their dragon. Me I only did the quest for it didn't have many glyphs couldn't fly as fast or have many of that vigualr thingy. Since I have never been to his dungeon, I have no idea where all the wind thingy is that will boost your flying speed.

DPS2: Fxxxing noob tank! Use your dragon mount. I explain I am not very good at it and that I only did the intro quest so my dragon mount.
DPS2: Go fxxxing learn your glyphs you are slowing us down! What's wrong with tanks not doing their job.

Yup and that's in a normal dungeon. We finish it and I left group. Log off right after wondering why am I paying to play this game. That's the reason why people don't tank. I mean would you tank if you were me? No one died no wipes, run went smooth. Just coz I hate dragon riding and didn't want to spend my time finding glyphs somehow that's my fault when bliizard force this crap into dungeons.

[Diatribe]

I tank when I feel like it first. Secondly, I tank with guild as much as I can. Thirdly, I'll pug when either I'm desperate or feeling frisky. I'm not feeling frisky often. So join my guild. Lol.

[huth]

LOL you kidding, right? The community is also pretty toxic in normal and heroic dungeons. Did the dungeon last night where you have to use your dragon-riding mount. Told the group is my 1st time here and that it would be great if they can be a bit more patient. I hate dragon riding and really hate using it.

While it's not going to help you meet better people, there's actually a flightpoint system in the dungeon to each of the major spots.

[mickybrighteyes]

While it's not going to help you meet better people, there's actually a flightpoint system in the dungeon to each of the major spots.

I'd say either learn to fly properly OR catch a ride on someone else's mount.... people do unlock 2 seater dragonriding right?

[alannnnn]

I dont know about you guys, buy the queue as dps are insanely fast. Leveling up and dragonflight dungeons. Is really good right now. Even i get invites in custom dungeons

[sponge5307]

While it's not going to help you meet better people, there's actually a flightpoint system in the dungeon to each of the major spots.

I'd say either learn to fly properly OR catch a ride on someone else's mount.... people do unlock 2 seater dragonriding right?

those fly points are super slow lol. Is like you are on a regular mount. Last night I didn't care anymore on my VDH I just kept going and going and going no rest, no stop running like a like man. Didn't care if people died or if they are in the boss's room. I am pretty sure dps were not happy with it but oh well. Someone always likes to complain like you are too slow is only normal or you are going too fast slow down. I got my pace now. I would love to slow down and enjoy the run but not when people constantly complain.

Kind of feel they should bring back BC or per nerf Cata dungeons back.

[Tyris Flare]

I have no idea where all the wind thingy is that will boost your flying speed.
s.

Yeah the massive columns of air that are everywhere are very difficult to see.

[Simulacrum]

Yup and that's in a normal dungeon. We finish it and I left group. Log off right after wondering why am I paying to play this game. That's the reason why people don't tank. I mean would you tank if you were me? No one died no wipes, run went smooth. Just coz I hate dragon riding and didn't want to spend my time finding glyphs somehow that's my fault when bliizard force this crap into dungeons.

The reason people don't tank is because you don't want to learn how to dragon ride which makes people you group with mad at you when to stand around doing nothing after queueing into their group as their tank?