Dragons reduced to ponies and pack mules?

[Ropeway]

Members of the five dragonflights, even drakes, are intelligent and fully sentient - that includes mounts of that type, as well. The Netherdrake mounts in Shattrath City speak to you when you choose one of them, as well as several other drakes like Brazen, Dreamscythe, Shadron, and so forth. Proto-drakes aren't very intelligent but are capable of speech in some cases, usually halting or guttural common, but tend to be a bit more primitive (analogous to cavemen but for dragons, kind of). According to Wrathion, dragons are fully sentient even within their eggs - when they're born it's with full cognizance and a developed personality, even in the whelping stage of their existence.

This. One dumbass in this thread goes on to confidently say how it's "clear" that "wild dragons" (lol) aren't intelligent. When the franchise has at every turn made it clear that dragons (and it's riding dragons that we're talking of) are through and through an intelligent species.

[Pendraeg]

Though this does raise another question of my own: Will they introduce something so that our own characters could transform into a dragon?
We already have that legendary staff that lets you take a dragon form, as well as that sandstone drake potion.
Plus there's already drac'thyr and we're able to regularly "customise" our dragon already. And we can already turn into a whelp to tag along for dragonriding.

Just thinking aloud here, but what would happen if you just shoved a gnome into one of those transformation things? Gnom'thyr? Drac'nome?
Only downside would be the jokes about furries.

We already have furries. They're called Druids and Shaman.

[Steelangel]

Not every dragon is the same. There are Tauren, yet there are still cows around, that are used as cattle.

Tauren are used as cattle too; we still love the taste of Taurajo beef over here in Stormwind.

On topic: I think that "drakes" are not particularly super intelligent. We don't ever ride a "real" dragon except in specific circumstances. We're always riding Drakes. On the other hand, the Monk class mount chats with you and is happy to give you a ride, even if you have to cut back on the mana buns.

[loras]

We already have furries. They're called Druids and Shaman.

Does ghost fur still count as fur though?

[The Stormbringer]

Tauren are used as cattle too; we still love the taste of Taurajo beef over here in Stormwind.

On topic: I think that "drakes" are not particularly super intelligent. We don't ever ride a "real" dragon except in specific circumstances. We're always riding Drakes. On the other hand, the Monk class mount chats with you and is happy to give you a ride, even if you have to cut back on the mana buns.

As has been explained on the other page, dragons are intelligent from the moment they're born. Whelps can think and communicate just fine. The only ones that are questionable are proto-drakes.

[ngc2440]

I dunno, let me ask all my previous dragon mounts that I keep around but neglect because I find them cumbersome and prefer a cool bat

Dragon: Hello hero. I am a legendary dragon that only allows a chosen few to call for me to carry them into battle. You have been deemed worthy of my use.
Player: Ha-ha bee mount go brrr.

[Pendraeg]

Does ghost fur still count as fur though?

Eh. Most faux fur used in furry costumes or fuzzy throws or most "fur lined" clothing is made of polyester and acrylic fibers, so why not spirit or ghost fibers?

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I dunno, let me ask all my previous dragon mounts that I keep around but neglect because I find them cumbersome and prefer a cool bat

I go with the Headless Horseman mount. It's not noisy.

[baskev]

Members of the five dragonflights, even drakes, are intelligent and fully sentient - that includes mounts of that type, as well. The Netherdrake mounts in Shattrath City speak to you when you choose one of them, as well as several other drakes like Brazen, Dreamscythe, Shadron, and so forth. Proto-drakes aren't very intelligent but are capable of speech in some cases, usually halting or guttural common, but tend to be a bit more primitive (analogous to cavemen but for dragons, kind of). According to Wrathion, dragons are fully sentient even within their eggs - when they're born it's with full cognizance and a developed personality, even in the whelping stage of their existence.

points still stands. they might be a bit smarter then lets say dolphins or dogs or chimps etc. But not by much if i read your stuff correctly.

So there is still a big difference between proto and other drakes. Enough that might make proto drakes more akin to our mounts. And tread them nicely like horses. And most lore says they are very simpel minded, while sentient not real smart etc. so we do not know the excat level of intelligence.

And netherdrakes etc are all altered dragons in 1 way or a other. i am talking about pure proto drakes.

[FelPlague]

If humans came from monkiew, why is there still monkies?

[baskev]

First off, "elemental enhanced dragons" aren't a separate species of dragon.

First off elemental enhanced dragons as seen in the draktyr quest zone are very different and look very enhanced. And i did not say different species. I said different type of dragons. Like different type of monkey's, ants etc. Same main species, big difference between the types. I never used the worse separate species.....

There are dragons from the 5 dragon flights, and then there are proto dragons (nether drakes etc. were derived from the former later on, specifically the Black dragons).

Yeah i know....i say that in the 3 major types i see. And again i use the word major here. That means there are also minor types of drakes who where altered or just different for wathever reason.
Again you are missreading stuff here. you have indeed the 5 main flights, netherdrakes, proto drakes etc etc etc. I was just talking about 3 major ones we see the most ingame ( or in the lore)

"elemental enhanced dragons" are a number of proto-dragons who have been inflated to high levels of power by elemental enhancement, just like the Aspects are specific dragons who were empowered especially by Titan power.

yeah i know? i am just pointing out that not all drakes are the same. Like not all breed of dogs are, or bee's etc etc

You're the one who needs to pay attention to the lore, instead of babbling ridiculous bullshit here.

First off, no need to be so rude.

And please read my words more carefully. Yes i am very dyslectic. But you put in things like i said: seperate species....i did not even say that word.

My point is very simpel in regards to your first post. You talk about dragons like they are all on the same level. They are not in the lore. Some can speak and transform into humans. Manipulate time etc. Some can barely or not speak at all.
Some have grown from being experiments, while others where infused with fell,titan,void powers etc.

They are not all the on the same level. So the mounts we are flying might be closer to our horses then us. And we do not know the relation between us and the mounts. Maybe its like with the pandaran dragon types. who we grow from a egg and are trained?

[Aucald]

points still stands. they might be a bit smarter then lets say dolphins or dogs or chimps etc. But not by much if i read your stuff correctly.

So there is still a big difference between proto and other drakes. Enough that might make proto drakes more akin to our mounts. And tread them nicely like horses. And most lore says they are very simpel minded, while sentient not real smart etc. so we do not know the excat level of intelligence.

And netherdrakes etc are all altered dragons in 1 way or a other. i am talking about pure proto drakes.

Being able to speak to you and converse in your own language would be somewhat beyond "a bit smarter than dolphins, dogs, or chimps" who can neither speak nor understand our language properly. Proto-drakes are generally more animalistic, and would probably be more akin to Homo habilis as compared to Homo sapiens except for dragons - also intelligent, but probably not capable of robust communication beyond body language or simple grunts (except in rare cases). Drakes from the 5 traditional dragonflights have human or greater intelligence, though; and that includes netherdrakes.

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If humans came from monkiew, why is there still monkies?

Because that's not how either speciation or evolution works, assuming you're asking in earnest. An evolutionary step in speciation doesn't require or imply that a previous branch dies off or stops existing for any reason - it just means one specific group specialized in a specific aspect of evolutionary growth, adapting itself for a specific purpose or set of purposes. Humans adapted for intelligence and advanced tool use, for example, sacrificing other evolutionary traits such as immense strength or dexterity to instead cultivate larger brains. Multiple groups can work perfectly well within a given context, though; and the group we evolved out of could go serenely on to evolve in different ways (and indeed have) from us, meaning they're still around today.

[FelPlague]

Being able to speak to you and converse in your own language would be somewhat beyond "a bit smarter than dolphins, dogs, or chimps" who can neither speak nor understand our language properly. Proto-drakes are generally more animalistic, and would probably be more akin to Homo habilis as compared to Homo sapiens except for dragons - also intelligent, but probably not capable of robust communication beyond body language or simple grunts (except in rare cases). Drakes from the 5 traditional dragonflights have human or greater intelligence, though; and that includes netherdrakes.

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Because that's not how either speciation or evolution works, assuming you're asking in earnest. An evolutionary step in speciation doesn't require or imply that a previous branch dies off or stops existing for any reason - it just means one specific group specialized in a specific aspect of evolutionary growth, adapting itself for a specific purpose or set of purposes. Humans adapted for intelligence and advanced tool use, for example, sacrificing other evolutionary traits such as immense strength or dexterity to instead cultivate larger brains. Multiple groups can work perfectly well within a given context, though; and the group we evolved out of could go serenely on to evolve in different ways (and indeed have) from us, meaning they're still around today.

Nah that quote is a meme, and this thread feels very much like that.
If there is smart powerful dragons, why is there dumb weak mount dragons?

[Aucald]

Nah that quote is a meme, and this thread feels very much like that.
If there is smart powerful dragons, why is there dumb weak mount dragons?

Sorry, my meme-fu is weak - I'm old and out of touch.

[Ropeway]

Though this does raise another question of my own: Will they introduce something so that our own characters could transform into a dragon?
We already have that legendary staff that lets you take a dragon form, as well as that sandstone drake potion.
Plus there's already drac'thyr and we're able to regularly "customise" our dragon already. And we can already turn into a whelp to tag along for dragonriding.

Just thinking aloud here, but what would happen if you just shoved a gnome into one of those transformation things? Gnom'thyr? Drac'nome?
Only downside would be the jokes about furries.

They can conveniently invent lore how the Druids were experimenting with turning into dragons. But since that went South, Malfurion banned it, but some druids kept practicing in secret.

Then eventually, we can have something called the Dorken curse, like Worgen curse, where it allows you to temporarily turn into a dragon.

I mean, considering the state of WoW lore, I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard actually ended up doing something like this.

[Le Conceptuel]

Add in to that the absolute charlie foxtrot of horror that was the experience of the Red Dragonflight while they under enslavement by the Dragonmaw clan, who used them as beasts of burden and war. What makes one think that Alexstrasza would react in any way that was friendly, to this proposition? Or even the other ex-Aspects for that matter.

I personally imagine all sapient Drake mounts to be accomplices and adventuring partners of the player characters—they're effectively helping you out as allies and potentially are no different than anyone else you're adventuring with. It's just that these particular partners are large enough to give a ride to their earthbound counterparts.

[baskev]

Being able to speak to you and converse in your own language would be somewhat beyond "a bit smarter than dolphins, dogs, or chimps" who can neither speak nor understand our language properly. Proto-drakes are generally more animalistic, and would probably be more akin to Homo habilis as compared to Homo sapiens except for dragons - also intelligent, but probably not capable of robust communication beyond body language or simple grunts (except in rare cases). Drakes from the 5 traditional dragonflights have human or greater intelligence, though; and that includes netherdrakes.

i agree. But like yourself have said. The lore is not very clear on how sentient proto drakes are.
And if you look at how the dragons react in story etc ( proto drakes that is). they are more akin dogs etc then smart, thinking drakes. But hey its blizzard lore, they can rewrite this and we are all wrong :P.

But for me, what i see ingame. Proto drakes are a non speaking, sentient drakes species. Seeing as how they act ingame. Yes there might be induviual proto drake that have evolved beyond that without becoming something else.

[Aucald]

i agree. But like yourself have said. The lore is not very clear on how sentient proto drakes are.
And if you look at how the dragons react in story etc ( proto drakes that is). they are more akin dogs etc then smart, thinking drakes. But hey its blizzard lore, they can rewrite this and we are all wrong :P.

But for me, what i see ingame. Proto drakes are a non speaking, sentient drakes species. Seeing as how they act ingame. Yes there might be induviual proto drake that have evolved beyond that without becoming something else.

When I'm talking about speaking and intelligent drakes, I'm referring to those of the primary five dragonflights, the ones led by Aspects. Proto-drakes are more primitive and animalistic - although they're still intelligent, probably more on the level of advanced apes than humanoids. Although, as shown by Dawn of the Aspects, more than a few of them were/are capable of speech and higher reasoning, so I'd say it is wrong-headed to classify the entire species as non-sapient.

[loras]

Eh. Most faux fur used in furry costumes or fuzzy throws or most "fur lined" clothing is made of polyester and acrylic fibers, so why not spirit or ghost fibers?

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I go with the Headless Horseman mount. It's not noisy.

Spoopy.
/10chars

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They can conveniently invent lore how the Druids were experimenting with turning into dragons. But since that went South, Malfurion banned it, but some druids kept practicing in secret.

Then eventually, we can have something called the Dorken curse, like Worgen curse, where it allows you to temporarily turn into a dragon.

I mean, considering the state of WoW lore, I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard actually ended up doing something like this.

Honestly i would settle for just "We tried shoving a gnome into the dragon-transforming machine and turned him back once we were done. His trauma is manageable so we figure it's safe to use.".

Would make a more fun experience than turning into a whelp for those handicapped dudes playing the game tok; just sit on your friend's back.

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I personally imagine all sapient Drake mounts to be accomplices and adventuring partners of the player characters—they're effectively helping you out as allies and potentially are no different than anyone else you're adventuring with. It's just that these particular partners are large enough to give a ride to their earthbound counterparts.

Our poor, poor mounts.
To be accomplices in so many murders (of kobolds).
So much theft (of candles).

[baskev]

When I'm talking about speaking and intelligent drakes, I'm referring to those of the primary five dragonflights, the ones led by Aspects. Proto-drakes are more primitive and animalistic - although they're still intelligent, probably more on the level of advanced apes than humanoids. Although, as shown by Dawn of the Aspects, more than a few of them were/are capable of speech and higher reasoning, so I'd say it is wrong-headed to classify the entire species as non-sapient.

Yup, then we are on the same page.
Thats my whole point from the start.

That not all dragons are as sentient as the rest. They differ enough.
In from what i can gather in the lore. Is the the proto drakes we ride as mounts. Are more akin lets say, game of thrones dragons ( a bit smarter like you said). But still more towards a pack animal.

[The Stormbringer]

If humans came from monkiew, why is there still monkies?

Come on, at least make the joke match the setting. "If Hozen came from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?!"