What do you think of the new bad guys?

[loras]

Deathwing remains one of the strongest final expac villains we've had to fight, behind Argus and N'zoth probably. Lich King, Corrupt Garrosh, Archimonde, The Jailer would have been smoked by him in 1v1s.

N'zoth may not have been stronger than Deathwing in a 1 on 1 fight.
That's partially the reason for the cataclysm: Deathwing was a dangerous pawn even to them, so they (primarily N'zoth) juiced him up further to the point of self destruction in a way most advantageous to them.

[LarryWithTheWeatherReport]

Argus might just still be the strongest raw power being we faced head on. Even his soul which is just a portion of his full might was too powerful for the Arbitor to handle. And a just a mere echo of him was a big plan of the Jailor's dreadlord division.

Although N'zoth and the Jailor could potentially beat him by making him mad or through domination.

This would make N'zoth > Jailor > Argus > Primalist Incarnate > Azshara > Odyn > Slyvanas/Tyrande > Lich King > Avatar of Aggranmar > Kiljaeden/Archimonde > Helya > Corrupt Garrosh > Deathwing > Lei Shen > Illidan.

Galakrond if resurrect and empowered by raw elements which I hope he does as hinted with dragonflight and hearthstone could potentially be stronger than all the above and only behind Sargaras and Malygos with the power of the nexus that could destroy Azeroth 10 times over according to his words.

[Skirdus]

The only villain who stands a chance at being even remotely as iconic as Deathwing is Galakrond; who is, rather obviously, already dead.

Dude did more permanent damage to Azeroth than even Sargeras did, and is still being talked about to this day almost every time dragons play a role in the story. Hard to compete with that sort of influence

[Al Gorefiend]

The only villain who stands a chance at being even remotely as iconic as Deathwing is Galakrond; who is, rather obviously, already dead.

Dude did more permanent damage to Azeroth than even Sargeras did, and is still being talked about to this day almost every time dragons play a role in the story. Hard to compete with that sort of influence

A lot of people seem convinced Galakrond will be this expacs final boss. A big undead one maybe.

[Aucald]

A lot of people seem convinced Galakrond will be this expacs final boss. A big undead one maybe.

I think it's likely to be time shenanigans with Murozond and the Infinites, but there's always room for a possible body-swerve.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

MMO plot about a horned beastman who summons an ancient light-blue storm dragon with prominent teeth/tusks, who rants to the heroes trying to make herself out to be misunderstood/innocent in a contralto voice. Hm... now where have I seen this before?





Raszageth is Jormag 2.0.

[Skytotem]

ATM the Primalists are the Twilight's Hammer but without old god stuff and a thin veneer of "maybe they have a point?" But Blizz isn't really exploring that point well.

[Donald Hellscream]

There is something endearingly derpy about Raszageth, or protodrakes in general, I suspect it is the T-rex arms that does it for me.
I am curious who the big bad of the expansion is going to be though, my three guesses are either the biggest and baddest of the incarnates, Muruzond or Galakrond, but apparently we will see once the first raid tier opens up.

[Sableye]

if they only wanted to level the dragon isles I'd be fine with them but they're a bit deluded to think they can take on the entire world, like they have to know what happened with deathchin, and know the world is a lot more united than it was back then. Sure the primalists are dangerous but we've beaten all the elemental lords, a fully chaos corrupted dragon aspect, and several old gods, as well as fought the burning legion and won three times(!) so they have to have at least some idea of how out gunned they are

I suspect though they are razegest (or w/e her name is) won't be the big bad that deathchin was. Anyways maybe thats the point, it gives us more room to have a nice story without the current danger being really the end of the world

[Feanoro]

@Val the Moofia Boss
Metzen may have been famous for ripping off ideas, but at least he made the effort to blend it into his setting. This is just blatant.

[Arikara]

they're ok

they're really just the Twilights Hammer Cult 2.0... but less cult-y? Which is an upgrade but it's not like anyone ever praised the Twilights Hammer.

Because they have Grimtotem in their ranks, I am inclined towards having some degree of personal beef with them.

[Jastall]

They're ok but uninspiring.

Feels like Cata 2.0 with dragons leading a cult of mortals. But while you could chalk up the Twilight's Hammer apocalypse cult shenanigans as Old Gods altering their minds, very little compelling reason is given as to why masses mortals would give a shit that some dragons were influenced by some Keepers into being Order-aligned literally before civilized life existed. The Primalists aren't a small organization of dedicated believers, they're an entire army it looks like, presumably plucked from the same cloning vats that spawn countless more Alliance and Horde forces after they suffer countless losses.

As for the dragons, I get the point, but in all of Raszageth's appearances all she's done is worfing a named dragon, telling them they suck to expose her meh motivations, then fly away instead of killing them, which is as tropeish as storytelling gets. Not that I expect much better out of Blizzard and it's still better than the Jailer's 69D chess of +420 to planning everything in the universe level of writing, but that's a damming by faint praise if I ever wrote one.

They kinda feel like throwaway starter villains until Nozdormu goes crazy and we get to the timey whimey Murozond coolness/stupidity that the writers actually want to write about. At least it's not like Deathwing where he started the expac and then did literally nothing for all of it.

[Super Dickmann]

They kinda feel like throwaway starter villains until Nozdormu goes crazy and we get to the timey whimey Murozond coolness/stupidity that the writers actually want to write about. At least it's not like Deathwing where he started the expac and then did literally nothing for all of it.

They have the standard cult problem that every one of these except the Cult of the Damned and to a lesser extent the Legion-associated cults do, that being that they're an incomprehensible demographic hodge-podge who, at least from the Titanforged races, have very little reason to be doing any of this. You could use things like how the Titans put multiple doomsday devices to fry the planet or that every flight has gone evil and killed thousands if you want to give the cultists some more grounded motive to oppose empowering Alex and company again, but at least in the parts I've done the game doesn't bother. The actual proto-drakes have a fairly basic motive but it is sensible and works for what it is.

What the Primalists have over the Twilight's Hammer is a congruity of tone. They're not comedic villains per se, I think they even have less comedy than the Twilight's Hammer on paper, but they're not meant to be dark or disturbing and everything around them is fairly light. One of the reasons the Twilight's Hammer were so terrible as a central villain is how they were on paper insane doomsday cultists worshipping eldritch gods and inspired by reading books made out of the torn skin of the emaciated followers of their dark messiah, but in practice, they're a pisstake from the sandwhich boards to the infiltration, to the outhouse quests and so on. Much like a majority of the Cataclysm main quest were joke quests of one description or another. Dragonflight is light in tone, but consistently so and they work for its purposes.

[Stormwolf64]

The only villain who stands a chance at being even remotely as iconic as Deathwing is Galakrond; who is, rather obviously, already dead.

Dude did more permanent damage to Azeroth than even Sargeras did, and is still being talked about to this day almost every time dragons play a role in the story. Hard to compete with that sort of influence

Isnt thst the dragon skeleton in draginblight? Absolutely no info at that time, must have been added later.

[Reinhart11]

I like them so far. There also seems to be a inner, lingering conflict between the mortal primalists and the proto drakes/Incarnates. Raszageth sees the mortals as abominations and wants a world that is dominated by elemental powers. A world in which most mortal races could not survive.

The Grimtotem on the other hand probably just want to learn / use the primal elemental power for their own goals. Maybe Magatha will show up at some point. They also see themselves as superior to all others, at least the majority who follow Magatha. Jevan Grimtotem as a Baine fanboy is irrelevant anyway though.

I could also see the Maghar and Orcs developing an interest in learning to control and infuse themselves with the primal elemental power of the Incarnates. The primal, savage and elemental aspect would fit Maghar, Orcs, Tauren/Taunka pretty well. They are not forced to use these elemental powers to create a world of chaos where the elements run completely wild. But they can use them as weapons and a means to strengthen themselves.

[voidox]

@Val the Moofia Boss
Metzen may have been famous for ripping off ideas, but at least he made the effort to blend it into his setting. This is just blatant.

lol ya tell me about it, before the copying was at least changed to fit the lore, setting and aesthetic of warcraft. Danuser and co. are just blatantly copying shit, same as they did in SL with copying themes, plot, story points and so on from generic sci-fi/fantasy worlds and barely any of it fit warcraft. Just the usual with how bad danuser and co. are as writers.

[Every Pwny]

They are background noise, super generic that belong in a children's cartoon, but I'm guessing these are not going to be the real villains of the expansion and they are just kind of there to give an enemy to fight while leveling/gearing up.

[olddog]

Prepare to welcome the Zereth Elementis. Primal incarnates and primalists are merely their pawns. The true masters of the elementals, the pantheons of the elements, await in Zereth Elementis. It is the birthplace of all the elements and the throne of the Cosmic elemental gods created by the First Ones.

[Nynthalas]

So far it's cool, aside Raszageth arms. I really wanna see what Blizzard will pull after the Vault of the Incarnates, since Raszageth will be the last boss, and she just got presented to us.
INB4: Vault of the Incarnates was merely a setback

[ClassicPeon]

lol ya tell me about it, before the copying was at least changed to fit the lore, setting and aesthetic of warcraft. Danuser and co. are just blatantly copying shit, same as they did in SL with copying themes, plot, story points and so on from generic sci-fi/fantasy worlds and barely any of it fit warcraft. Just the usual with how bad danuser and co. are as writers.

How do you actually write that without physically cringing at your own words. Literally got cringe chills from reading this.

Here is a good piece of advice: If you find yourself agreeing with Val - you should probably reconsider your reason for being here in the first place.