Anyone else completely overwhelmed by new talents?

[Thirtyrock]

I was overwhelmed at first. I studied up on my main and imported a few sets of talents and did some minor customization. Then, for alts, I started over leveling so I could add talents one at a time, which made it less intimidating.

[shanthi]

I can't be bothered to individually reply to everyone going on at me because you're all missing the same fundamental point

You won't respond to actual posts so that you can keep repeating claims that have been proven conclusively wrong. Have at it.

[Dastreus]

hmmm it's almost as if there's a website that a lot of people tend to use, anyway... something cold sounding. I wonder what that is.

[Aleksej89]

The filler/connecting talents kinda kill the system, especially for hybrids who have a lot of general talents that are useless to their current role.

It would be nicer if within a talent tier we could pick the big talents we wanted, like a pool of important talents that you choose a couple of favs from.

[Alkizon]

In order not to answer some personally (last times this was often perceived as a personal insult, for some reason, but this isn't on current forum, here I haven't seriously used personal appeal for a long time), so...

Regarding why BC/WoTLK's talents (for example, for me) are perceived precisely as proper kind of talents, and not as artificial restriction/imposition, it was said here (a lot stuff). New system, as it has been repeatedly said again (last time, for example, here), change only system's visual component and forces you to make hard choice where it used to be flexible, and flexible choice generally being removed by rigid division into specialization-classes and with broken system of characteristics.

ps. Main advantage of old trees wasn't diversity (although it was, global system allowed to have it, but why? and answer is further), but freedom to choose each/any/little step of progress/castimization elements without violating class priorities. In other words, what was previously part of choice is no longer one = it's spec's default package now, but what was previously available to class as such has become "choice element" and not even everything, but only stuff, that devs decided for this spec... imo, deal is wildly unfair.

That how it is somehow.

(regarding post above) Growth of certain characteristics by talents had effect of gradual "controlled" gain, in other words, not looking at the fact that they (each) had "separate" place in talent system, but were considered as generality/totality of passive bonus of this tree (you should see this as initial mastery), and considering them as "element of bias in role" means misunderstanding of purpose of talent trees in old system (specialization didn't determine your role, facilitated certain moments, but didn't choose - it only set certain preferred fighting style), role was largely determined by flexible choice

You "like frost", well, in old system you're frost by your choice (you decided to use only frost and take appropriate talents, that will support this direction in first place), but in new system you're frost because you have no choice. You have your boundaries outlined without your participation and aren't allowed to go beyond them even a little bit (you aren't allowed to make it/system assumes that user is to stupid to make it by self, define that boundaries), so here you choose from ready-made solutions, you don't design anything, which means you don't make a meaningful choice, you just obey some of system's ones. So which one is better, which limits or encourages choice?

of dynamic characteristics (of equipped items) and set of "preferred" abilities (whereas most of them remained accessible and usable !so there was no sense of urgent need to change something in it for every situation!, but not effective, like system's trap for people who couldn't or didn't want to understand it, ...or extra reason to "show off" for those who understand it especially well and mastered its management system). Were there any not very expressive/seemingly insignificant talents? - yes, but if we talk about situation as a whole, there were no much complaints for devs about this part. (this isn't the first time I have hinted at this mistake of your perception of it)

ps. As I have repeatedly said, still don’t understand what people are so excited about, new icons and menus or what? ...one could think a titanic work took place here

[Le Conceptuel]

I fear that we'll have to have 10 different "loadouts" for different encounters and have to re-adjust our playstyle for every encounter which for me as a casual player is very overwhelming

That honestly excites me. The only problem is that the sims preempt in-game experimentation and trial-and-error.

[Aesahaettr]

I dislike the idea of being expected to changed loadout for every different scenario. Doesn't really feel like your inhabiting a character then, as there's no permanence.

[fazaim]

From an outsider's perspective, this looks like gaslighting, lmao.

Blizzard took a core skill and turned it into a talent, meaning every time you want it you have to spec into it, adding extra hassle just to have the talent. But somehow they've convinced gamers like this person that it adds depth to the game?

Hello -- just because you have Multishot on your bars doesn't mean you HAVE to use it in every single encounter. Taking normal baseline skills out of the core set of skills and locking it behind a skill point doesn't add depth to the game; it just adds hassle.

Mate, initially in Shadowlands, swapping out certain spells meant you had to change covenant. Where is the hassle?

[Aydinx2]

I dislike the idea of being expected to changed loadout for every different scenario. Doesn't really feel like your inhabiting a character then, as there's no permanence.

There was already literally 0 permanence. How does having more options make it less "permanent"?
And you don't have to swap anything around. You're expected to make your builds outside of the content.

[Forteofgray]

Can I ask what age you are?

This is exactly why I said what I said in my previous reply to you. I could tell you only created this thread to complain and look for an echo chamber for people to repeat your opinions back at you. When you didn't get that, you became defensive.. The talents are great. Sometimes to "fix" or update a game, it's necessary to gut systems and reinstate them in a different form to better alter the flow of the game. This is what was done here with talents. I can't stand blizzard, I hate their corporate, soulless vibe. But I'll admit when they do right and they did here. You need to stop complaining so much.

This system could even be expanded upon horizontally in the future. Add more talents sideways and give players more points as they continue to level so they can customize their talents even further, making their specific character more diverse than another. Guild Wars 2 does it with success, WoW seems to want to copy them. Every time a good change comes, people come to this forum to complain about it hoping to seek out other people with the same opinions to make them feel validated in their frustrations. It's not going to happen much here because the overall consensus appears to be talents are good. You are in the minority here.

[Season2mask]

This is exactly why I said what I said in my previous reply to you. I could tell you only created this thread to complain and look for an echo chamber for people to repeat your opinions back at you. When you didn't get that, you became defensive.. The talents are great. Sometimes to "fix" or update a game, it's necessary to gut systems and reinstate them in a different form to better alter the flow of the game. This is what was done here with talents. I can't stand blizzard, I hate their corporate, soulless vibe. But I'll admit when they do right and they did here. You need to stop complaining so much.

This system could even be expanded upon horizontally in the future. Add more talents sideways and give players more points as they continue to level so they can customize their talents even further, making their specific character more diverse than another. Guild Wars 2 does it with success, WoW seems to want to copy them. Every time a good change comes, people come to this forum to complain about it hoping to seek out other people with the same opinions to make them feel validated in their frustrations. It's not going to happen much here because the overall consensus appears to be talents are good. You are in the minority here.

Why do you care so much about this? I made a thread expressing an opinion about something in a video game. Someone else replied sounding very angry. And now you've jumped in with a furious message about nothing

[Baraden]

You won't respond to actual posts so that you can keep repeating claims that have been proven conclusively wrong. Have at it.

Proven conclusively wrong =/= people coping telling me they don't interrupt and outing themselves as shit players

Hmmm okay

[shanthi]

Proven conclusively wrong =/= people coping telling me they don't interrupt and outing themselves as shit players

Hmmm okay

Nope. You agreed with me that an interrupt isn't needed on a raid encounter that has nothing to interrupt, then you said "BUT BLIZZARD DOESN'T MAKE SUCH ENCOUNTERS ANYMORE!" I immediately point out a handful of raid encounters with nothing to interrupt in the most recent raid and you go silent.

Typical. Can't survive your arguments being blown up.

[Baraden]

Nope. You agreed with me that an interrupt isn't needed on a raid encounter that has nothing to interrupt, then you said "BUT BLIZZARD DOESN'T MAKE SUCH ENCOUNTERS ANYMORE!" I immediately point out a handful of raid encounters with nothing to interrupt in the most recent raid and you go silent.

Typical. Can't survive your arguments being blown up.

The problem with this is

1. We are talking about all utility
2. We are talking about all pve

You have yet to tell me why the fact you have to choose to take and potentially sacrifice something else to get what you got for free before is a good thing

[shanthi]

The problem with this is

1. We are talking about all utility
2. We are talking about all pve

No, we're not doing either thing. You still don't understand the system. You don't make ONE build for ALL PvE. You make a build for what you're doing. Do you understand this? A build for what you're currently doing. If what you're currently doing doesn't require an interrupt, you don't take an interrupt and you take something else instead. If what you're currently doing does (or might) require an interrupt, then you do take it.

This isn't difficult. If you're doing a raid encounter with NO interrupts, you'd be dumb to talent into an interrupt. If you're doing a mythic+ dungeon, you probably should take the interrupt.

Please tell me you now understand how this new talent system works.

[Baraden]

No, we're not doing either thing. You still don't understand the system. You don't make ONE build for ALL PvE. You make a build for what you're doing. Do you understand this? A build for what you're currently doing. If what you're currently doing doesn't require an interrupt, you don't take an interrupt and you take something else instead. If what you're currently doing does (or might) require an interrupt, then you do take it.

This isn't difficult. If you're doing a raid encounter with NO interrupts, you'd be dumb to talent into an interrupt. If you're doing a mythic+ dungeon, you probably should take the interrupt.

Please tell me you now understand how this new talent system works.

I notice you are failing to answer my question again


I'm done with you, you can continue being facetious all you like but ultimately if you can't tell this system is a clear regression then clearly we aren't operating on the same level

[Boddhi]

Well I guess the main point of the new talent system is to give you the good feeling of getting something new each level up ding. For that it does quite a good job in the end.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm not really a fan of having to learn new metas either.

You don’t sound like someone needing to know or playing metas. It does not take much brains to make a build by yourself that just works well up to heroic raid and keystone master levels. Just pick the abilities you wanna use and buff them by the corresponding passives. Can’t lose.

[shanthi]

I notice you are failing to answer my question again

Your question is nonsensical because you act like you take an interrupt (or anything else) for ALL of PvE, which you don't. You take it for situations where an interrupt will be useful. I've already identified a major case where it isn't. You keep ignoring it and pretending that you have to either spec into it all the time or none of the time.

I'm done with you

If you can't understand a simple concept like "talent into an interrupt when there are actually interruptible abilities and don't talent into it when there aren't interruptible abilities" then you're really not worth conversing with.

[Mendzia]

Good.
That means alot of choices.
They finally understand and see that there were many good things in the past xpacks.
'New' talent trees is step in very good direction.

[Hctaz]

Lol imagine saying "our talents are shitty all they do is just give stats. They are better"
which isnt even true, classic talents are full of "new ability, this now does this, this triggers this, that does this...
Cope.

I mean... I agree with the person you're quoting.

The Classic talents are more enjoyable for me. I actually even dislike a lot of the procs and things added with the Wrath expansion having played through each Classic expansion again.

And trying to say that it's cope because the Classic talents are "full of 'new ability, this now does this, this triggers this, that does this...'" is really not accurate.

Most of the Classic talents that actually change something up just add a little utility like "Your chill effects have a chance to freeze" or "Blizzard now slows people"

The talents don't really take abilities that are used for one thing and then change them to be used for something else.

Examples being Cold Heart which changes Chains of Ice from a slowing ability into something that Frost DK can never use for a slow because it's actually a ramping damage cooldown or First Blood turning Blade Dance into a single target and AoE ability instead of merely an AoE one.