White Supremacist in Buffalo Murders 10 people.

[Doctor Amadeus]

What you're failing to realize is that the people who are committing these crimes? They believe that the people they are shooting ARE a threat to them. They've been taught that gay people, or brown people, or Jewish people are here actively plotting against them and their families. That God might wipe out their entire city, them included, for tolerating such people in their midst. That every black person is selling drugs to their kids while looking for white women to rape. Because that's what they are constantly being told is the truth.

They aren't insane, they legitimately believe that shooting these people is the only way to protect themselves and their families. They're wrong, but wrong isn't a mental illness.

No they don’t. You think the majority of racist, sexist or even homophobic idiots in reality want to murder?

If so we’d have a lot more shootings than we do now. Hell people would use whatever means they had.

Not caring if people you hate die isn’t exactly the same as going out of your way to seek those people out and murdered them. Especially when they aren’t any threat.

People like that have a disorder. Which is why as much as we have with these shootings it’s rare.

- - - Updated - - -

Wrong. School shootings have all been ultimately driven by hate for someone or something. In the last decade, so many of them have had anti Jew or anti black or anti woke manifestos.

It's hate.

When you're someone willing to give up your life for the chance to commit mass murder, I can see why you might classify that as a mental illness. And perhaps can be partially attributed to mental illness. But pretty much everyone with mental illness that is ready to give up their life just commits suicide. Hateful people take the chance to commit mass murder.

Everyone hates, it's part of the human condition, sometimes it's without conscious choice. What is not normal is for someone to equate whatever personal problem with an everyone else's problem and decides to go out and shoot innocent people doing nothing to them.


You don't have to HATE people to be Jefferey Dahmer or even Ted Bundy. Hell in general even soldiers that are trained aren't always willing to kill either.

Typically a human being even in optimal situations like joining the military in some way have to be CONDITIONED, because human instinct typically want to avoid killing, even if they signed up for it and believe the reason for doing so is justified.

It's a big reason why like in Germany what was happening in concentration camps was ignored or people denied it happened.


Plenty of people hate, again plenty of people CAN even be OK with a holocaust. MOST however don't actually want to KILL anyone, and they especially don't want to kill someone even if they hate them if they feel it can be avoided.



And I do want to make this clear, NOT everyone with a mental disorder or is a murderer or mass shooter, but EVERYONE who murders and killed innocent people with no logic or reasoning (People who are a threat) has a mental disorder.


It's Normal to have feelings of Hatred, IT IS NOT NORMAL TO PERSONALLY FEEL IT'S TIME TO MURDER RANDOM INNOCENT PEOPLE.

[Endus]

No you’re wrong anyone who decides to mass shoot innocent people has a mental disorder.

Because you say so, unlike basically all informed and education psychiatric professionals.

Sure, Jan.

I m not clicking on your misinterpreted bullshit links.

Doesn't matter. You can be willfully ignorant all you like, what matters is nobody else taking you seriously as you dismiss the facts to push a misinformed delusion.

[Kaleredar]

No you’re wrong anyone who decides to mass shoot innocent people has a mental disorder.

I m not clicking on your misinterpreted bullshit links.

Normal people don’t go on homicidal rampages to kill people. Even if they hate them. If you hate people. You fucking avoid them like everyone else. Or use enough social skills to navigate around.


And if someone is a threat same deal. You don’t kill or injure people unless a threat. People shopping and minding their own business doesn’t qualify.

Now a person doesn’t have to all have the same mental disorders. But if your solution to a problem to problem is to murder people you should never be allowed outside unsupervised.

Maybe the problem is guns.


Evidence:

Other countries have people with mental disorders. Other countries don't have the proliferation of unregulated and easy-to-obtain firearms like the US does. And other countries... don't have mass shootings.

So if other countries have people with mental disorders, and that's what causes mass shootings, then why don't other countries have mass shootings the way the US does?

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Mall Security will die on every single hill.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Because you say so, unlike basically all informed and education psychiatric professionals.

Sure, Jan.



Doesn't matter. You can be willfully ignorant all you like, what matters is nobody else taking you seriously as you dismiss the facts to push a misinformed delusion.

Unlike you I’m not consumed with what everyone thinks. Nothing about what you’re saying is supported by what you link. You have an agenda not any kind of argument yourself.

The simple fact you’re arguing the absolute bullshit that mass murderers are just “evil” and not mentally disturbed at all. Is the kind of magic thinking I’ve come to expect from you now.

- - - Updated - - -

Maybe the problem is guns.


Evidence:

Other countries have people with mental disorders. Other countries don't have the proliferation of unregulated and easy-to-obtain firearms like the US does. And other countries... don't have mass shootings.

So if other countries have people with mental disorders, and that's what causes mass shootings, then why don't other countries have mass shootings the way the US does?

So you’re argument. Is that everyone else ought to be stifled and monitored. Rather than dealing with the actual individuals that do this shit because it might make some people feel bad.

Dude no. I’m not a fan that mentally disturbed ought to be allowed to make world where everyone else should have to live like children. Eh no.

[Endus]

Unlike you I’m not consumed with what everyone thinks. Nothing about what you’re saying is supported by what you link. You have an agenda not any kind of argument yourself.

How would you even know? You said you wouldn't even look at them.

You're wrong, anyway, but you're just making yourself look ridiculous by denying facts at this point.

The simple fact you’re arguing the absolute bullshit that mass murderers are just “evil” and not mentally disturbed at all. Is the kind of magic thinking I’ve come to expect from you now.

It's "bullshit", but your completely baseless and unsupported claims of mental illness being the driver is totally legit. Tell me about how flat the Earth is, while you're at it.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

I’m not a fan that mentally disturbed ought to be allowed to make world where everyone else should have to live like children.

You really need to hire a proof reader before you post anything...because this is word salad.

[Doctor Amadeus]

How would you even know? You said you wouldn't even look at them.

You're wrong, anyway, but you're just making yourself look ridiculous by denying facts at this point.

Because Once upon a time you were one of the few people who's links I would click on. Many times you provided facts or details but many other times you inferred CORRECTLY correlation to subjects that might be being argued.

However, more recently, your links have taken on more of a bend and you generally have lean in a lot more on supposition rather than actual facts or application.

You're arguments.

Nobody should ever own a gun.

And we shouldn't call out mental illness for what it is because that might offend or make MOST people with Mental Illness who are in NO WAY who I am specifically talking about.

Because you're advocating for one group over another and Pandering to an Audience likely the very people on here who used to give you shit before you started doing exactly what I said.

It's "bullshit", but your completely baseless and unsupported claims of mental illness being the driver is totally legit. Tell me about how flat the Earth is, while you're at it.

It isn't baseless, however it isn't fucking complicated either, you keep trying to lump ALL mental disorders that are Mental Illness into the same pot.


You know what you're doing, You are not ignorant at all. But right now you are dealing in dishonesty and bullshit.


I don't need to lead anywhere here who knows what I am talking about and more importantly know who you are and what you're talking about.



Anyone can have a mental disorder, a mental disorder simply means thoughts and or behaviors not specifically in line with social or clinical norms. Sometimes mental disorders can be caused by environmental factors, and happen because of conditioning.


However Sometimes mental disorders come from biological realities.


This is why psychology itself is divided into two different fields. People who study Behavior, specifically learned behavior and sometimes prescribe medications. Then there are those who specifically study biological science and evidence, and focus mostly on the brain more specifically.


All of the above makes up Psychology and as such while there are certainly Academics that follow one school of thought when it comes to diagnosis and treatment, while others focus on others.


It's funny in a sad way watching you break down in front of me with some lame ass Strawman Comparison to what I am saying and what you are saying because, I told you the truth about YOU and your links.


But it still doesn't change nobody in their right mind believes ANYBODY who shoots up a mall or schools or whatever DOESN"T have a mental disorder or condition. That IN NO WAY means that those who have a MENTAL DISORDER can't at the same time still be accountable.


YOU seem to really be trying to blur the lines to support your AGENDA, but I am not.


I am not now or have I ever said WHAT KINDS of specific Disorders these individuals Suffer, but I AM saying if you decide to shoot up innocent people you for sure Suffer from a Mental Disorder and Mental Illness.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Everyone hates, it's part of the human condition, sometimes it's without conscious choice.

People who hate a general "race" of people are taught that hate somewhere along the line. That's just a fact.

And again, sure, someone who's willing to die is probably mentally ill. People who want to die and take down a bunch of people with them are more than mentally ill. Again - people who are on that path almost always just commit suicide. These mass shooters have been taught hatred for people, and want to take others down with their suicide.

Additionally, feelings of intense hate are in fact not normal. Hate can and will happen in someone's life, but for most people it comes and goes, and usually isn't all that intense. There's a reason therapists will usually guide people through diffusing their hate, not cheering them on to chase it.

To have a fixated hate upon a certain group of people takes either an extreme traumatic event at the hands of those people or TEACHING someone that extreme hate of those people is normal.

People can hate. But attempting to claim hatred towards an entire group of people is anything but normal. Hatred towards an entire race only happens in the presence of traumatic events or others teaching them that it's normal and fine, or even worse, desirable.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

[Word Vomit]

So, you're doubling down on the links Endus provided as not supporting his arguments.. when you haven't even looked at them?

Seems legit.

I am not now or have I ever said WHAT KINDS of specific Disorders these individuals Suffer, but I AM saying if you decide to shoot up innocent people you for sure Suffer from a Mental Disorder and Mental Illness.

This is a little excerpt from one of those links you didnt read:

The reality is that people with mental illness account for a very small proportion of perpetrators of mass shootings in the U.S., says Ragy Girgis, MD, associate professor of clinical psychiatry in the Columbia University Department of Psychiatry and the New York State Psychiatric Institute.

So, you're more of an expert on psychiatry than Dr. Girgis? Where did you get your medical degree, Dr. MallCop?

[Endus]

You're arguments.

Nobody should ever own a gun.

Literally never made that case. You're a liar.

And we shouldn't call out mental illness for what it is because that might offend or make MOST people with Mental Illness who are in NO WAY who I am specifically talking about.

No, you shouldn't claim mass shooters are mostly mentally ill because the overwhelming majority of them are, literally, not mentally ill. That's a claim you've made which has no basis in fact, and which any examination of actual analyses of mass shooters quickly demonstrates is not just baseless but demonstrably false. It's a lie you've chosen to push, and you don't have anything to back it up but stubborn fact-averse insistence that you must be right, "because".

Because you're advocating for one group over another and Pandering to an Audience likely the very people on here who used to give you shit before you started doing exactly what I said.

What group am I "pandering" to? The only thing I'm appealing to here is facts and evidence. You don't have any. The facts we do have contradict your claims.

It isn't baseless, however it isn't fucking complicated either, you keep trying to lump ALL mental disorders that are Mental Illness into the same pot.

If it's not a diagnoseable disorder, it isn't a mental illness. Ethical/moral failings aren't diagnostic.

This is why psychology itself is divided into two different fields. People who study Behavior, specifically learned behavior and sometimes prescribe medications. Then there are those who specifically study biological science and evidence, and focus mostly on the brain more specifically.

Dude, no. There's one DSM-V. Both fields approach diagnostics differently, but they use the same definitions.

It's funny in a sad way watching you break down in front of me with some lame ass Strawman Comparison to what I am saying and what you are saying because, I told you the truth about YOU and your links.

The APA isn't reputable? Columbia University? The Harvard Review of Psychiatry journal? You've just decided to start lying out your ass about me for some reason. That's a "you" problem.

[Splenda]

I hate the "mass killers are mentally ill" crap. Here's why, and it isn't just because it further stigmatizes people who struggle with their mental health.

Because pretending/believing/whatever that you have to be mentally disturbed to do something that awful makes them sound less than human. You know what humans are? Good, bad, gross, weird, annoying, uplifting, hurtful. Everything and anything. None of which require you to be broken in the head. Humans are fully capable of committing awful acts as they are good ones. Fear, anger, radicalization, coercion. Here's some entirely normal and human reasons to do awful things.

Be disgusted because a perfectly normal, average person like you or me did something terrible. Don't hand them an easy scape-goat like "oh they were dropped on their head as a baby." or "They forgot their meds that morning." They aren't a mentally disturbed boogy-man from a crappy TV-to-DVD movie. They are just people, and their path in life took them down an ugly road.

So stop contributing to the struggles the mentally ill have, and stop trying to cope with the idea that some people are just bad by doing that.

Some people really are just bad.

[Santti]

This mental illness angle reminds me of the "Evolution is just a theory" stuff. A combination of people not understanding what the words actually mean, and at least with the mass shootings, to shift the blame.

Yes, there is definitely something wrong with you if you murder 10 people, but it's dangerous to call it a mental illness, as you just manage to stigmatize the actually mentally ill as potential murderers. Especially reckless, when there is no evidence of them having an actual mental illness, as has been established with most of these mass shootings.

[Poopymonster]

This mental illness angle reminds me of the "Evolution is just a theory" stuff. A combination of people not understanding what the words actually mean, and at least with the mass shootings, to shift the blame.

Yes, there is definitely something wrong with you if you murder 10 people, but it's dangerous to call it a mental illness, as you just manage to stigmatize the actually mentally ill as potential murderers. Especially reckless, when there is no evidence of them having an actual mental illness, as has been established with most of these mass shootings.

They have to use Mental Illness as the issue.
They have to hide what their Accepted Child Mortality Rate is. (How many children do you allow to be needlessly slaughtered before you do something of substance?)
Otherwise they might have to say what the problem is.
Easy access to guns.

[Orange Joe]

No you’re wrong anyone who decides to mass shoot innocent people has a mental disorder.

I m not clicking on your misinterpreted bullshit links.

Normal people don’t go on homicidal rampages to kill people. Even if they hate them. If you hate people. You fucking avoid them like everyone else. Or use enough social skills to navigate around.


And if someone is a threat same deal. You don’t kill or injure people unless a threat. People shopping and minding their own business doesn’t qualify.

Now a person doesn’t have to all have the same mental disorders. But if your solution to a problem to problem is to murder people you should never be allowed outside unsupervised.

Must be nice to be proudly ignorant.

[Santti]

Must be nice to be proudly ignorant.

Perhaps we could even call it... a mental illness.

[Doctor Amadeus]

People who hate a general "race" of people are taught that hate somewhere along the line. That's just a fact.

Are then too people taught to love strawberries, or love Japanese or Asians? Or do people simply have a preference?

And again, sure, someone who's willing to die is probably mentally ill. People who want to die and take down a bunch of people with them are more than mentally ill. Again - people who are on that path almost always just commit suicide. These mass shooters have been taught hatred for people, and want to take others down with their suicide.

Nah most people don't like to kill, hell many people really don't like to do work of any kind regardless to their beliefs. Hating people or groups of people in and of itself is not a kin to to murdering people.

As I stated before everyone who goes on these mass killings have some kind of mental disorder. As to what kind of disorder or whether or not that was a factor specifically is debated.


Hate to bring race or gender into this but very often especially in society, who is afforded the defense of mental illness and who isn't very much depends on those factors.

Additionally, feelings of intense hate are in fact not normal. Hate can and will happen in someone's life, but for most people it comes and goes, and usually isn't all that intense. There's a reason therapists will usually guide people through diffusing their hate, not cheering them on to chase it.

You don't have to cheer someone on to hate, just like love, very often it is a process, and truthfully most people who claim to hate just like love really cling to an idea rather than what those words mean.


I mean if I HATED purple people, that wouldn't make me want to go out and kill every purple person. It would however make me want to NOT have anything to do with them. If you hate someone you don't obsess about them, you don't give them room in your mind in any way shape or form. And often times people who do hate, do so because of as you mentioned being spurned or hurt.

IN MY OPINION that doesn't really have much to do with love or hate.


In fact I would go one further and say that HATE, True Hate is a sign of mental illness in itself. So No Hate isn't good, nobody would encourage it, but often times it something someone has to work through.

To have a fixated hate upon a certain group of people takes either an extreme traumatic event at the hands of those people or TEACHING someone that extreme hate of those people is normal.

Nah most people have some kind of hate or over all general dislike, that in and of itself doesn't make them a killer or murderer, just as mental illness does not make someone a murderer or killer either.


HOWEVER, to do what these mass shooters do, YOU HAVE to have a mental disorder, YOU most LIKELY also have a hatred. But you do NOT have to hate people you mass kill.

The Aurora Shooter James Holmes was a prime example of that. Dylan Roof on the other hand did hate black people, both were willing to kill innocent defenseless people who by themselves were absolute NO threat to them.

Nothing was accomplished by what either of them did. It sure as shit didn't make their worlds safer. It didn't suddenly turn society and it's view into their favor in fact in the case of Dylan Roof, he probably could have been like any and every other racist, sexist, or homophobic idiot and simply lived his life separated from those he hated as much as possible.

People can hate. But attempting to claim hatred towards an entire group of people is anything but normal. Hatred towards an entire race only happens in the presence of traumatic events or others teaching them that it's normal and fine, or even worse, desirable.

It's normal in that even in it's extreme even if it's hate. Someone with average intelligence and stable mind would never decide to travel nearly 30 to 100 Miles out of their way to murder fucking people they know simply because they hate who they are.

Obviously in war or through some means like Nazi Germany, yes, people who adopt a means to and end be belittling human beings in groups, which is dangerous and horrific.

But it's not because of simply HATE, you don't decide to kill millions of people who have done nothing to you personally, simply out of association.


And the biggest problem with your position is that if we really are going to suggest Hate in and of itself is a cause, WELL THEN HOLD ON TO YOUR BUTT.


Because ALMOST ALL and the worst brutality and murder has not happen because of Hate. It's happened because of LOVE or what some people think is love.




If it's between Hate and Love, People as an excuse, more people kill for LOVE than they do Hate.




Hitler did what he did because he claimed he LOVED Germany and his People, yet in the end he literally fucking sent them to their slaughter.


Trump talks about LOVE of his country and being a Patriot. I have never seen him show affection LOVE or any kind of real concern for anyone INCLUDING his family aside from Ivanka. Even if he pretended to love someone anyone other than himself.


Police, when answering 911 Call by in large the most dangerous calls they respond to are domestic violence calls where so called LOVED ones are trying to KILL each other.


Bottom line it's not Hate, or Love or Mechanical devices making it easier to kill people.

The problem is with individuals with mental disorders who pose a threat to society and have no concern about hurting or killing others because they want to.

[Muzjhath]

The problem is with individuals with mental disorders who pose a threat to society and have no concern about hurting or killing others because they want to.

This is just flat out wrong.
Every metric from everywhere shows that people with mental disorders are less likely to comic harmful acta (towards others) than those without.

[Doctor Amadeus]

This is just flat out wrong.
Every metric from everywhere shows that people with mental disorders are less likely to comic harmful acta (towards others) than those without.

Which mental disorders specifically?

Keep in mind not all illnesses are the same or same degree effect.

[Orange Joe]

Which mental disorders specifically?

Keep in mind not all illnesses are the same or same degree effect.

Let's make this easier what mental illness are YOU talking about?