Russian invasion of Ukraine

[The Stormbringer]

I do seem to recall that the whole idea that a group of people who were German citizens, but were generally unpopular and easy to point fingers at, were 'disloyal' to the country and needed to be dealt with came up before a little under a century ago at this point. It didn't end well. If a person of Russian heritage commits a crime in Germany than they should be punished for the crime that they committed, but going after an entire ethnicity because 'those people can't be trusted' is a past mistake that should not be repeated.

Fucking thank you. It's like people are blinding themselves to the past in this thread. Good to see some people still remember history.

[Lynarii]

Fucking thank you. It's like people are blinding themselves to the past in this thread. Good to see some people still remember history.

Germany is the low hanging fruit on this one, but Canada put Japanese-Canadian citizens into internment camps and confiscated property too. A lot of countries did. It was the same story everywhere... 'divided loyalties'... 'need to protect good honest citizens from the bad people'... all amounted to a lot of harm that didn't need to happen. I don't think anyone in this thread actually wants a repeat performance of that time, but the best way to avoid going down a path is to not take the first steps on it.

[zorkuus]

Right, I mean I do know that but this would essentially be another generation destroyed and another dent in russian demographics which are already abysmal...

Good. Fuck 'em. Maybe this will teach them to not be a spineless servile people to their corrupted leaders in a couple of decades (probably not).

It's difficult to feel sympathy for them.

[Corvus]

Lot of reports that russia has been seen making preparations for another massive missile strike. And as usual not a one will be going for military targets.

Jens Stoltenberg is now saying NATO is actively discussing sending patriot missile batteries to Ukraine. As can be expected, medvedev had an apoplectic fit at the mention of it, sprouting the normal threats. They don't like the thought of anything that makes their attempted genocide harder.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Don't take it too literal, you'll only hurt yourself.

The idea that you should be utterly dedicated to one and only one nation at a time is so fucking weird dude.

[Poopymonster]

Lot of reports that russia has been seen making preparations for another massive missile strike. And as usual not a one will be going for military targets.

Jens Stoltenberg is now saying NATO is actively discussing sending patriot missile batteries to Ukraine. As can be expected, medvedev had an apoplectic fit at the mention of it, sprouting the normal threats. They don't like the thought of anything that makes their attempted genocide harder.

The US better get all the shit they can send over to the Ukraine there before January when the GQP turns Congress into gridlock because ̶i̶t̶ ̶g̶o̶e̶s̶ ̶a̶g̶a̶i̶n̶s̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶i̶r̶ ̶d̶o̶n̶o̶r̶s̶ ̶w̶i̶s̶h̶e̶s̶ reasons.

[P for Pancetta]

The US better get all the shit they can send over to the Ukraine there before January when the GQP turns Congress into gridlock because ̶i̶t̶ ̶g̶o̶e̶s̶ ̶a̶g̶a̶i̶n̶s̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶i̶r̶ ̶d̶o̶n̶o̶r̶s̶ ̶w̶i̶s̶h̶e̶s̶ reasons.

I think the republicans are divided on this topic, there are the weird pro putin trumpists who will block it, and you have a large group of in the middle that follow whatever the top says, but there is also a group that wants to send more help to Ukraine, the weapons industry is still an important donor for many republicans. those + the democrats will probably get most of those things through congress.

[Gabriel]

I do seem to recall that the whole idea that a group of people who were German citizens, but were generally unpopular and easy to point fingers at, were 'disloyal' to the country and needed to be dealt with came up before a little under a century ago at this point. It didn't end well. If a person of Russian heritage commits a crime in Germany than they should be punished for the crime that they committed, but going after an entire ethnicity because 'those people can't be trusted' is a past mistake that should not be repeated.

Fucking thank you. It's like people are blinding themselves to the past in this thread. Good to see some people still remember history.

Way to miss the entire point. Nobody is saying that we should deport all russians. We're saying that those with dual russia/X citizenship should be forced to give up one or the other. If they like to live in Finland so much, they don't need the russian passport.

[Kaleredar]

I think the republicans are divided on this topic, there are the weird pro putin trumpists who will block it,

It's not weird.

They're unhappy that the revenue stream from Russia that they're paid to continue being their counterproductive, divisive and regressive selves to sew discord and generally inhibit the functioning of and trust in the US government is being disrupted. So they want the war in Ukraine to end, people to stop looking too closely at where they're getting their money from, and to avoid the negative perception that receiving funding from a maliciously aggressive dictatorship gives to them and their political aspirations.

Perfectly understandable.

and you have a large group of in the middle that follow whatever the top says, but there is also a group that wants to send more help to Ukraine, the weapons industry is still an important donor for many republicans. those + the democrats will probably get most of those things through congress.

The rest of the GOP only gives a rat's ass about Ukraine because the American people support something that was effectively being marshaled by democrat leadership, and they detest allowing democrats being allowed to be seen as "leading" anything popular. When the GOP rests partial control of congress they might start claiming, as is their wont, that suddenly all of the aid to Ukraine is being done via strong republican leadership.

I think the monetary and lobbying pressure from the defense industry who are basically being given blank checks to make weapons to send to Ukraine probably beats out the pernicious drive of the conservative bad actors trying to intercede in Russia's favor.

[Lahis]

Again this basically tells Russians "Unless you mass suicide (Which is what protesting is) you're all scum fucks who even if you're in a village 1000s of miles away totally shot the gun that killed a kid that you never saw, never interacted with, never even had any thought about because like 99.99999% of humans you're just trying to live your life and realise that being alive no matter what is the goal of every life form as death means the every second of your life was meaningless shit and a waste of time."

Well. Russia has been like this for centuries. No matter who leads, they are Imperialist assholes.

So it really is" just all Russians. "

[Slant]

I do seem to recall that the whole idea that a group of people who were German citizens, but were generally unpopular and easy to point fingers at, were 'disloyal' to the country and needed to be dealt with came up before a little under a century ago at this point. It didn't end well. If a person of Russian heritage commits a crime in Germany than they should be punished for the crime that they committed, but going after an entire ethnicity because 'those people can't be trusted' is a past mistake that should not be repeated.

You are moving up ethnicity with nationality. A mistake I never made. Don't project your racist bullshit on me.

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The idea that you should be utterly dedicated to one and only one nation at a time is so fucking weird dude.

What is fucking weird is having a foreign nation having election campaigns on German soil that costs my tax money in which they talk shit about Germany. Get some fucking perspective.

[Iphie]

Well. Russia has been like this for centuries. No matter who leads, they are Imperialist assholes.

So it really is" just all Russians. "

I dunno, I'll accept "russians have been brutalized into accepting that they can't do anything about their leadership" as that's what centuries of oppression and serfdom will do but it still is the leaders who take advantage of that situation.

But saying all russians are imperialist assholes is untenable. My point is: you can't just assign a trait to a population and declare it to be true because that's not how reality works.

[Flarelaine]

But saying all russians are imperialist assholes is untenable. My point is: you can't just assign a trait to a population and declare it to be true because that's not how reality works.

Seconding that. Nation bashing is a forbidden topic. Russia has done a lot lately to deserve hate and it is awfully convenient in casual conversation to just project that to Russians, but please be more discerning in your discourse. Casually speaking of the Russians as a proxy of Russia is not the same as going out of your way and emphasise your unflattering opinion of all Russians.

[jonnysensible]

we should get back to talking about how its funny that Russian commanders keep looking at ukranian defensive positions and saying 'what if we tried another frontal assault with no artillery cover' and then proceeds to send another 1000 russian wagner pedophiles to their death.

[The Stormbringer]

Way to miss the entire point. Nobody is saying that we should deport all russians. We're saying that those with dual russia/X citizenship should be forced to give up one or the other. If they like to live in Finland so much, they don't need the russian passport.

No, that's the current conversation. The previous conversation was, "All Russians are war-criminals and should be treated as such." and "If Russians step even a toe out of line while in other countries, deport them back, even if they're there seeking asylum!"

EDIT: If it's not clear, I disagree vehemently with the sentiments in quotation.

[Kallisto]

we should get back to talking about how its funny that Russian commanders keep looking at ukranian defensive positions and saying 'what if we tried another frontal assault with no artillery cover' and then proceeds to send another 1000 russian wagner pedophiles to their death.

Wagner's leader is so desperate to get a one-up over the official Russian military that he will not stop until either Wagner is gone or Bakmut (SP) is taken. This is more a Russian power play at home more than anything else.

[Iphie]

Wagner's leader is so desperate to get a one-up over the official Russian military that he will not stop until either Wagner is gone or Bakmut (SP) is taken. This is more a Russian power play at home more than anything else.

Meanwhile the russian MoD has started to create their own Wagner lite AND taken over the control of prisons so Wagner can no longer just recruit there, there's a lot afoot behind the walls of the Kremlin and it would appear that there's definitely a power struggle happening or brewing.

[Cthulhu 2020]

What is fucking weird is having a foreign nation having election campaigns on German soil that costs my tax money in which they talk shit about Germany. Get some fucking perspective.

Not really sure what this has to do with dual citizenship, other than some people living in other nations may also have citizenship in another nation. But oh noooooooooooooooo someone talked badly about your country! What ever will you dooooooooooo. Time to blame dual citizenship.

Get some fucking perspective my guy. We live in a globalized world. It's not going back unless every technology discovered in the last 200 years vanishes. I spent a portion of my life living almost exclusively in a nation that wasn't my native nation for years due to work. The politics there directly affected me, but I wasn't able to do anything about it. Many other people will spend half their time in one nation and half their time in another. When you're able to travel to the literal other side of the planet in 16 hours, people are gonna move around a lot. Get over it.

[Kallisto]

Meanwhile the russian MoD has started to create their own Wagner lite AND taken over the control of prisons so Wagner can no longer just recruit there, there's a lot afoot behind the walls of the Kremlin and it would appear that there's definitely a power struggle happening or brewing.

A power struggle could happen, we'd have to be cautious about it incase it's a hardline win or worse full on balkanization. While a fracturing of Russian Federation isn't going to cause me any tears, even as someone who feels for the sake of the world we need to remove borders peacefully and democratically. The world really doesn't need a situation where dozens of States are fighting each other with their mini kadyrovs and some getting hold of Russian WMDs, and not just Yuppie's favourite word.

[Corvus]

A Ukrainian at their embassy in Spain has been injured when a letter bomb sent to them exploded.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...y-madrid-spain

There have also been reports of a second one sent to a Spanish weapons manufacturer and a third at a Spanish military base.

Smells like ruzzian terrorism.